Hollow: The Experience

[TGO]

I am posting this report mainly to express my dislike for *most* RCs. Listen, we all need to be very careful when ingesting substances because there are a lot of dishonest people out there trying to make a quick buck and they could care less about what happens to you. You have been warned.

Test before you ingest!

First off, this experience happened roughly two/three or so years ago when my girlfriend and I were on the prowl for LSD. A friend of ours said that he had some and would gladly share with us. (I took notes after the experience and will do my best to recall all the fine details.).

"Okay, cool!" I thought to myself. But it was far from cool. We had six hits so my girlfriend and I split them in half. Took two and then the last one an hour later. We did not test the substance. Needless to say, I will never do that again. The "friend" called us the next day and admitted that he found out that what we had was supposedly of the NBOME family. :thumb_dow (IMO)

The come up was a little uneasy so I had Itunes begin playing the entire discography of Pink Floyd. If nBOME's are good for anything, they have great synergy with music. "Any Colour You Like" is one of the most strangely beautiful and psychedelic songs I've ever heard while under the influence of psychedelics. Left me with tears of joy on many occasions. But then again, you just can't go wrong with Pink Floyd while tripping. Anyway getting off topic...

My lady and I basically sat and cuddled on the couch for the first 2-2.5 hours. All the while, the trip was getting more intense. Walls, floors, posters, ceiling and everything in between was melting, waving, and breathing pretty hardcore. What I noticed is that there was this empty feeling from this compound. Little to no introspection with a lot of nifty OEVs...little to no CEVs. Overall, it felt very hollow. I think that is what was bothering me during the trip. I wasn't getting anything out of it except this unacceptable feeling of emptiness.

The music was cool, my girlfriend was warm, but something was creeping in at the back of my consciousness that I couldn't quite put my finger on. At this point I was still managing to hold it together, all the while beginning to feel more detached and disoriented from everything...but I was still completely HOLLOW somehow.

At this point, my girlfriend smiled at me and pointed to the bong, pre-loaded with cannabis. I did not want to smoke yet so I thought I'd take just one hit and let her smoke whatever she wanted. I wish I hadn't taken that hit because as soon as I did, I felt a bit paranoid and suddenly overwhelmed with complete disorientation. Not a typical, "I'm leaving my body" type of disorientation, it was more like I was really drunk and lost in a foreign place. I hugged my girlfriend for dear life and buried my head in her chest for comfort. That helped, for about five minutes. Confusion was really starting to set in. I was just...lost and couldn't comprehend anything. The cannabis really sent me in the wrong direction.

I was fighting a losing battle. I did not like the feeling rushing through me. I pulled away from her to try and get grounded. Took some deep breaths, but it only got worse. For some reason, the music stopped and I don't know if it was real or not but it was silent in my reality...I tried to look at her and smile but what I saw was a bit horrific, IMO.

Everything was melting and while I faced and looked at my GF, she had turned into a thin and frail looking skeleton creature who's face was melting and drooping and basically scaring the hell out of me. We keep each other strong in the depths of psychedelia, but man it was creepy. Behind her (or what used to resemble her) and the couch was a swirling mass of black OEVs ... dark and uninviting with what appeared to be wisps of lightning. Very strange. I was having a hard time coping with the dark reality that just enveloped me...all while still feeling quite hollow. That made it even more startling. I couldn't feel correctly. It just was and I was in the middle of it. I knew I couldn't afford to freak out, because it would freak her out. But the panic was real and it was trying to wedge itself into the deepest part of my soul. I'm pretty sure she could see it on my face but there was no time to worry about that...

So I faced my fear head on and jumped back up on the couch and laid my head in her lap. She started stroking my hair and after a few minutes (or hours, who knows...time dilation was immense) I started to feel like everything was okay. I am guessing that that was the peak of the experience because it gradually tapered off and the music returned...:?: We spent the rest of the night painting and coloring and playing with bubbles and glowsticks. BTW, blowing bubbles is my favorite way to distract myself when things start to go south. Bubbles are the bee's knees!

I've never felt anything but immense pleasure and joy/happiness when on LSD (the few times it was legit) so I think that is part of the reason this experience was a bit frightening, to say the least. At the time, I didn't know what I had put in my body because I didn't test it. In retrospect, I can't believe I was being that ignorant. Research chemicals are no joke.

So to all of you considering taking something without knowing what it is, please consider the safety implications. I had to learn the hard way. Perhaps I am better off for it but it was by no means, fun.

I still did a couple RC trips after this one once I knew what they were but like I said, they journeys always felt like they were lacking in any substantial meaning:

Hollow: Without Significance.

I don't take RCs or go looking for psychedelics anymore. I make or grow my own. I truly feel like that is the only proper way to go about exploring the wonderful and truly enigmatic psychedelic realms.

Thanks for reading!

Any insight is welcome!

PEACE

-The Grateful One-

 

[null24]

I'm right with you on the cultivation and harvest. Make/grow/harvest your own, it's the only way to ensure quality. That, or intimately know your growers.

The experience you relate resonates with me in that I've had those empty, hollow trips, where I just felt the "high" with no insight. It's like trying to catch your breath but not be able to. There's something always just not there, and it's disconcerting to say the least.

However, the experiences I had were back in the day - late 80s early 90s, I wonder how much of the acid going around back then wasn't really LSD? I'm pretty sure some of the strange blotters that I ate were things that were other than LSD. ( Black Island anybody?) In fact, out of the hundreds of acid trips I've had I really only feel like I've done "real" LSD a few times.

I have no way of really saying though. I wonder if it's just the quality of some trips to be like that?

 

[concombres]

I`m right with you on this topic grateful one. I absolutely will not touch 90% of psychedellics I encounter anymore aside from what I produce myself, even with reagent testing. There is just too much sketchiness, lies, & misrepresentation going on.

To be brutally honest I will not even think about ingesting a substance I havn`t produced without a sample being lab tested first due to several experiences very similar to yours.
I hate to say this & I don`t know your age in particular but I have given up on my generation entirely, 95% of my friends & acquaintances could not tell the difference between a lysergamide, NBOME, or psychedellic amphteamine in a blind test & frankly it seems as if they absolutely do not care.

Blotter & vials of L is becoming quite a dangerous game with all the extremely potent rc`s coming out now. I know of several benzo analogues, cannibinoids, nbome`s, & novel lysergamides that can be laid in active doses on blotter. The l ysergamides being an exception because they seem to be relatively safe, but i`m sure there are many more compounds & many more to come with some nasty side effects & dose response curves. Many of which will be DEADLY if an overdose is taken.

Compound that with the lack of care or skill to lay blotters & easy access to powdered chemicals active in the sub milligram range & you end up with hotspots killing people, misrepresentation causing deaths, & then sketchy idiots doing things to trick reagent tests when they lay the blotters or mix a vial.

 

[LowHP]

I have to concur with you, concombres. Where I am from pills ("MDMA" hah) have been the big deal for the last decade, but in the past year or so I've noticed NBOME laid blotter doing the rounds more often than I'd like. These blotters are far more often than not laid way too high for a first-timer to NBOMEs. A typical blotter of 25i is laid at around 1200ug. The typical 25b blotters are laid around 1300ug. This is WAY too high for someone new to the NBOME family to even consider taking! I find myself constantly and consistently teaching people about these compounds. Generally, if my friends or social circle get a hold of it, it's sold to them as "acid". I think this is one of the most dodgy practices going around, because the impressionable youth of today can google amazing sounding trip reports on LSD ('acid' ) from 4-5 tabs, and think that the same will apply to them if they take 4-5 tabs of their "acid". 4-5mg of NBOME later and they're in serious trouble... a new acquaintance of mine was recently boasting of his trip off 2.5mg 25b and 1.5mg 25i. While a rise in psychedelic use and interest can be seen as a good thing for the new generations, THIS is the culture we want to avoid and suppress!

GratefulOne, I'm not particularly well versed in all the NBOME's but if I were to relate your experience to one of my own, I would compare it closest to my 1300ug trip on 25b-NBOME. I was camping with a circle of close friends that I had dosed on mushrooms for the first time and my ex, who also took shrooms. We all ingested at the same time and for the most part, our trips were comparable on a timeline. However, while I could see, feel and empathize with the immense mental and spiritual load my fellow trippers were experiencing, I experienced NOTHING mentally substantial whatsoever the entire night. My OEV were exploding with colours warping, slicing, light trails, seeing daylight during the night, random flashes of "lightning", etc and in that regard I felt saturated. But emotionally and mentally, I was not moved or affected one bit. I didn't even feel "giggly"! While the visuals around me were so intense, they didn't cause any noticeable type of awe.

25i, on the other hand, was nearly the exact opposite...500-600ug (half a tab) of that stuff knocked me on my butt mentally. I didn't feel any spiritual presence or awakening, but I wasn't really looking for that at the time (3 years back). I just remember being SO lost in my own mind, and feeling like navigating my thoughts was like going through an endless, looping, hopeless maze. Visually though, I don't remember much that stood out to me.

I fully support procuring your own psychedelics, as the harmony, connection and patience-building alone, before any ingestion, is totally worth it. However, I don't think that is to say that the NBOME family have no use as psychedelics whatsoever. Recreationally they can be used safely and for a bit of fun. As a medicine, they appear to be lacking a specific aspect to them, though I am not to say what will work for one and not another.

Thanks for your trip report TGO, another good and timely reminder to 1. KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE, and 2. TEST WHAT YOU HAVE.

 

[Spaced Out 2]

I'm with ya on this, it's the main reason I haven't taken lsd since the mid 90s. Where I was at the time, all that was obtained seemed very dirty and risky, and seeing how shady people were becoming only enforced my abstinence from it. If I could make it myself then and only then will I take it.
It got to be about the same with shrooms, some of what was being procured didn't look like "normal" shrooms. Stayed away from them for a long time too. Now I can fruit my own and that's the only way I'll take them.

Now that I'm older and more mindful than I was in the 90s, it just seems to make more sense to extract or grow my own. Plus I'm not one to always be looking for the next extreme high I'm quite content with what is available to me through my own means. In the meantime weed, shrooms, and dmt is really all I need and I gain a lot from them, so I'm not sure any RCs or anything else for that matter has much more it can offer that these don't already. Again this is just for myself others may feel differently. My opinion is that your playing a dangerous game obtaining RCs from unknown sources and I just pay them no attention because I have no interest whatsoever.
Sorry you had a freaky trip on what you and your girlfriend took, Grateful one, but it sounds like it definitely taught you a valuable lesson.

Again my opinion is that, all the goodies are already available to us through natural means, and there's really no need for any others, just my 2 cents.
Good topic though Grateful one :thumb_up:

 

[null24]

I hate to say this & I don`t know your age in particular but I have given up on my generation entirely, 95% of my friends & acquaintances could not tell the difference between a lysergamide, NBOME, or psychedellic amphteamine in a blind test & frankly it seems as if they absolutely do not care.

I don't know what your age is either, c, butI'm just curious about your statement, I understand the sentiment- being dissapointed with the hedonistic impulse of your peers- but I personally chafe a little at the rest. I'm not inexperienced with the effects of different drugs, but doubt I could, under the influence, easily discern the qualities of say, LSD or another lysergimide.

Do you know much about this topic? I'm curious. Seriously, the majority of my indiscriminate psych use was back on and around Dead tour in the mid to late 80's.(another time altogether). I don't have a count but have experiences in the hundreds. None of the psychs I took during that period had any kind of provenance whatsoever - not until now, during my adult life and personal psychedelic renaissance do I have an idea where my drugs come from. That said , I feel I may have had actual LSD-25 - from potato ergot- once or twice. How many pretenders are there, how prevalent were they back then and why put then out there? Are they easier to procure precursors or to synth with less equipment than LSD? Apologies, as usual, for being OT.

The weirdest, most visual "acid" I ever are, was called black island, with a old woddcut illustration on the blotter, in southeast US in 1986. Or how about some blue star that kept us laughing uncontrollably- in stitches for over 16 hours? What about all the microdots sold as mescaline? ( one if which caused a friend to have respiratory failure and he was found to have cyanide in his system- luckily, and only luckily-I was sober to drive him to hospital - another story) I also recal giant blotter, but never took it. The qualities of these trips had more to do with body load than psychic effect, although like I said TGO, you're experience with the hollowness is relatable. However, the last time I took LSD last summer I had a similar experience due to low dosing.

After my first experience with it, I came here and learned how to make DMT and have been successfully extracting for me and mine for several years now. I either collect mushrooms during fall and store them, or have a dear friend who supplies them to me from their farm. Heck, I even source my pot, and barter f. or sugar leaf that keeps me very happy. Going out and buying a "dose" of ANYTHING is beyond me now. Jesus, some tweaker offered me shrooms downtown at the very beginning of season and I swear they were gallerina!!! Orange stipes?!?

 

[concombres]

I hate to say this & I don`t know your age in particular but I have given up on my generation entirely, 95% of my friends & acquaintances could not tell the difference between a lysergamide, NBOME, or psychedellic amphteamine in a blind test & frankly it seems as if they absolutely do not care.

I don't know what your age is either, c, butI'm just curious about your statement, I understand the sentiment- being dissapointed with the hedonistic impulse of your peers- but I personally chafe a little at the rest. I'm not inexperienced with the effects of different drugs, but doubt I could, under the influence, easily discern the qualities of say, LSD or another lysergimide.

Do you know much about this topic? I'm curious. Seriously, the majority of my indiscriminate psych use was back on and around Dead tour in the mid to late 80's.(another time altogether). I don't have a count but have experiences in the hundreds. None of the psychs I took during that period had any kind of provenance whatsoever - not until now, during my adult life and personal psychedelic renaissance do I have an idea where my drugs come from. That said , I feel I may have had actual LSD-25 - from potato ergot- once or twice. How many pretenders are there, how prevalent were they back then and why put then out there? Are they easier to procure precursors or to synth with less equipment than LSD? Apologies, as usual, for being OT.

The weirdest, most visual "acid" I ever are, was called black island, with a old woddcut illustration on the blotter, in southeast US in 1986. Or how about some blue star that kept us laughing uncontrollably- in stitches for over 16 hours? What about all the microdots sold as mescaline? ( one if which caused a friend to have respiratory failure and he was found to have cyanide in his system- luckily, and only luckily-I was sober to drive him to hospital - another story) I also recal giant blotter, but never took it. The qualities of these trips had more to do with body load than psychic effect, although like I said TGO, you're experience with the hollowness is relatable. However, the last time I took LSD last summer I had a similar experience due to low dosing.

After my first experience with it, I came here and learned how to make DMT and have been successfully extracting for me and mine for several years now. I either collect mushrooms during fall and store them, or have a dear friend who supplies them to me from their farm. Heck, I even source my pot, and barter f. or sugar leaf that keeps me very happy. Going out and buying a "dose" of ANYTHING is beyond me now. Jesus, some tweaker offered me shrooms downtown at the very beginning of season and I swear they were gallerina!!! Orange stipes?!?

I do understand your point. My concern is more geared around another class of drugs entirely being misrepresented & my peers not being able to discern any difference.

As an experienced user i`m certain you could differentiate very easily between say a 36hr Dob trip, a phenelethylamine, or a lysergamide. Now being that I wasn`t around for orange sunshine, window pane in the 80`s & microdots back then, i cannot say how things were back then but my concern was not as much with differentiating between the different lysergamides, the few that i have seen around (lsa, eth-lad, 1-p, ald-52 etc.) Seem to be relatively safe & I cannot say I would be able to differentiate either but the concern with safety is not quite as bad with l ysergamides as it is with other compounds.
The novel lysergamides bit was just thrown in there to reiterate the fact that there are an increasingly large number of compounds becoming available that are active in the sub-milligram range. They are not all inherently bad or without their merit, just dangerous when misrepresented or when blotters are laid poorly.

I am not saying I have not had my share of experiences of indiscriminate drug use & have never had positive experiences that way, just that a handful of bad experiences with various misrepresented drugs that opened my eyes rather quickly (nbome`s, bad x pills, fake ketamine, etc.) & have really made me think twice about ingesting anything off the street.

 

[null24]

Right on , c. Yeah, I dodged the misrepresentation bullet. I dropped out of the MDMA scene before it went to pills. Right around then all the rumors about adulteration etc came out.

Bless the Nexus and it's open education allowing us to make our own. :thumb_up:

 

[TGO]

Great responses so far! Thanks guys!

I'm right with you on the cultivation and harvest. Make/grow/harvest your own, it's the only way to ensure quality. That, or intimately know your growers.

The experience you relate resonates with me in that I've had those empty, hollow trips, where I just felt the "high" with no insight. It's like trying to catch your breath but not be able to. There's something always just not there, and it's disconcerting to say the least.

However, the experiences I had were back in the day - late 80s early 90s, I wonder how much of the acid going around back then wasn't really LSD? I'm pretty sure some of the strange blotters that I ate were things that were other than LSD. ( Black Island anybody?) In fact, out of the hundreds of acid trips I've had I really only feel like I've done "real" LSD a few times.

I have no way of really saying though. I wonder if it's just the quality of some trips to be like that?

I wish I knew exactly what substance it was that we took but first I was told it was LSD only to be told later that it was NBOME...so who knows. I even debated about where to post this because of that. I'm pretty close with the guy who shared with us and have never had any reason to believe he would lie on purpose but you never know...

I am glad to know that you've felt the "hollowness" too but I am even more confused now! :d Since we don't know exactly what we were taking it is hard to make any conclusions as to what causes that feeling. Anytime I've taken an (supposedly) NBOME I've had that feeling. Lacking in depth. Colorful, fun, and confusing (at times) sure but not something I really enjoyed. On a side note, I've never heard of Black Island but it sounds wildly interesting. Thank you for your input!

I`m right with you on this topic grateful one. I absolutely will not touch 90% of psychedellics I encounter anymore aside from what I produce myself, even with reagent testing. There is just too much sketchiness, lies, & misrepresentation going on.

To be brutally honest I will not even think about ingesting a substance I havn`t produced without a sample being lab tested first due to several experiences very similar to yours.
I hate to say this & I don`t know your age in particular but I have given up on my generation entirely, 95% of my friends & acquaintances could not tell the difference between a lysergamide, NBOME, or psychedellic amphteamine in a blind test & frankly it seems as if they absolutely do not care.

Blotter & vials of L is becoming quite a dangerous game with all the extremely potent rc`s coming out now. I know of several benzo analogues, cannibinoids, nbome`s, & novel lysergamides that can be laid in active doses on blotter. The l ysergamides being an exception because they seem to be relatively safe, but i`m sure there are many more compounds & many more to come with some nasty side effects & dose response curves. Many of which will be DEADLY if an overdose is taken.

Compound that with the lack of care or skill to lay blotters & easy access to powdered chemicals active in the sub milligram range & you end up with hotspots killing people, misrepresentation causing deaths, & then sketchy idiots doing things to trick reagent tests when they lay the blotters or mix a vial.

I'm with ya on this, it's the main reason I haven't taken lsd since the mid 90s. Where I was at the time, all that was obtained seemed very dirty and risky, and seeing how shady people were becoming only enforced my abstinence from it. If I could make it myself then and only then will I take it.
It got to be about the same with shrooms, some of what was being procured didn't look like "normal" shrooms. Stayed away from them for a long time too. Now I can fruit my own and that's the only way I'll take them.

Now that I'm older and more mindful than I was in the 90s, it just seems to make more sense to extract or grow my own. Plus I'm not one to always be looking for the next extreme high I'm quite content with what is available to me through my own means. In the meantime weed, shrooms, and dmt is really all I need and I gain a lot from them, so I'm not sure any RCs or anything else for that matter has much more it can offer that these don't already. Again this is just for myself others may feel differently. My opinion is that your playing a dangerous game obtaining RCs from unknown sources and I just pay them no attention because I have no interest whatsoever.
Sorry you had a freaky trip on what you and your girlfriend took, Grateful one, but it sounds like it definitely taught you a valuable lesson.

Again my opinion is that, all the goodies are already available to us through natural means, and there's really no need for any others, just my 2 cents.
Good topic though Grateful one :thumb_up:

I couldn't agree more with both of you, I was definitely taught a lesson. I posted this (I think this happened in late 2012, didn't date my notes!) because it was one of the weirdest trips I've had on anything. I don't usually have "bad" or even "dark" trips in general and it took me by surprise. I am fairly young (Mid-late 20s ) so I hope that doesn't make you guys think any less of me!

That being said I have pretty much given up on my generation too, especially when it comes to trust. I've had plenty of run ins with dirt bags. It is even worse when it is someone you do know and trust that screws you over. There are just too many people doing shady things...maybe it is "being paranoid" but I'd rather call it "being prepared."

I used to be all about that "next high" and I don't need to tell you guys that that is a stupid and dangerous way to go about life. But I had gone through some things and kept making excuses for myself and dug a hole deeper than I could climb out of on my own. As terrible as that phase was in my life, it made me a stronger and better person today. So in a sense, I am thankful that I was able to learn from it.

That is why I am here now, at the Nexus. I needed a better way. A safer way. And what better place to learn about chemistry, extractions, and psychedelics than an Entheogenic University?

Weed, shrooms ( I love the art of growing mushrooms! So rewarding!), and DMT are my main ones today too. Next would be mescaline as I extract that but don't have it on hand as often as the other three. I am also patiently waiting for my state to start proposing new marijuana laws, which some are already on the table but won't be available for vote until next year. Yay for being one step closer though!

GratefulOne, I'm not particularly well versed in all the NBOME's but if I were to relate your experience to one of my own, I would compare it closest to my 1300ug trip on 25b-NBOME. I was camping with a circle of close friends that I had dosed on mushrooms for the first time and my ex, who also took shrooms. We all ingested at the same time and for the most part, our trips were comparable on a timeline. However, while I could see, feel and empathize with the immense mental and spiritual load my fellow trippers were experiencing, I experienced NOTHING mentally substantial whatsoever the entire night. My OEV were exploding with colours warping, slicing, light trails, seeing daylight during the night, random flashes of "lightning", etc and in that regard I felt saturated. But emotionally and mentally, I was not moved or affected one bit. I didn't even feel "giggly"! While the visuals around me were so intense, they didn't cause any noticeable type of awe.

25i, on the other hand, was nearly the exact opposite...500-600ug (half a tab) of that stuff knocked me on my butt mentally. I didn't feel any spiritual presence or awakening, but I wasn't really looking for that at the time (3 years back). I just remember being SO lost in my own mind, and feeling like navigating my thoughts was like going through an endless, looping, hopeless maze. Visually though, I don't remember much that stood out to me.

I fully support procuring your own psychedelics, as the harmony, connection and patience-building alone, before any ingestion, is totally worth it. However, I don't think that is to say that the NBOME family have no use as psychedelics whatsoever. Recreationally they can be used safely and for a bit of fun. As a medicine, they appear to be lacking a specific aspect to them, though I am not to say what will work for one and not another.

Thanks for your trip report TGO, another good and timely reminder to 1. KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE, and 2. TEST WHAT YOU HAVE.

Indeed! That lightning thing was almost weirder than my vision of my GF melting and looking scary. I've never seen the wisps of lightning on anything else psychedelic. Your descriptions of said NBOME trip are pretty much identical to how I felt and to what I saw. Very interesting!

I also agree that these compounds may have their uses, but I really don't feel like they're my cup of tea at all. I mean, all new research chemicals seem to have some scrutiny attached to them when they make their debut but wasn't LSD just a research chemical until it's power was identified? Of course, LSD is much safer than most RCs floating out there at the moment but I still don't like putting LSD in the same category as NBOMEs.

DMT, Mushrooms, And Mescaline are my favorites because they have the most thorough and rich history attached to them. They feel the most down to Earth and "real" to me. I can't really speculate on LSD though because I've only had real LSD a few times. And even then I am still not 100% sure but those few times were quite different than any RC I have ever ingested...

 

[Jees]

I live somewhat "isolated" from society and withdrawn from friend-circles, so some input what's going out there is very welcome.

TGO I take your word for it no doubt, then again I've felt numerous types of trips with same material, ranging from heavenly warm bliss to really cold and empty or "hollow" with all the same molecules.
Makes me wonder how much our own "frequencies" and those of the materials are responsible for the outcome. I've seriously mixed feeling about this, and as always one day is not the other, so nailing "truth" is slippery.

Again I take your experience serious in these matters, just wanted to add important variables in the game.

Most of my genuine ayahuasca experiences are rotten tomatoes in feeling throughout, only now and then it's pure bliss, so what's the bill on ayahuasca for me? I've thought it's cleaning up work and this is also the general explanation floating about. What if we grant so much credits to the "other" materials? Should we? Shouldn't we? As said, I have mixed feeling.

To end, I've had very "empty-ness" experiences (with maoi + spice) and found them quite "Zen". To be honest quite releasing from stars and teeters and phoohaas and stories of all kind and it feels like sort of: "At last, depth in silence, nothing better than this." while tripping nonetheless. It actually has become a favotite tuning. In that empty-ness I feel connection to the core beyond the stories of life and matter, there is so much nothing it's becoming scary & powerful without overflowing in the "superficial layer of things and history". But perhaps this is a different kind of "empty" as yours here in this thread about nbomes?

Big hug,
J.

 

[InLaKesh]

Hollow is the perfect word to discribe the NBOMEs. I may also add disconected.

I really like the "spiritual-emptyness" I can feel on LSD , it connects me with the
Universe and the Source.
But NBOME´s feel hollow and disconected. I took it first at a wonderfull Darkpsy/Forrest Festival , thinking it was LSD. It was like, oh nice Dancefloor and nice music ,but cant be part of it ,cant trance (wtf?), running arround overstimulated thinking "beautiful deco , sadly I cant enjoy it". And it was just a quarter blotter ! to test the "Acid" ...
no, thank you !
The same again , one Festival later ,very visual,but hollow and disconnected , no meditation possible.

It all went down the drain...
its really sad !

I am (was ?) really into the Psytrance scene , and those RC´s really change everything.
It (LSD) was a staple ,not just for the insiders who really care , but everyone could come to a festival and have a spiritual experience (or at least a paradigm shattering psycedelic one...), now (sice 2013, but really since 2014) the chances are really high that much people will just get a hollow and disconnected RC experience!!!
This can destroys the scene (or change it beyond recognition).
Some people get used to it.
They combine better with alcohol (agaist vasoconstriction, to fill the emptyness)
...
For 17 years i got just quality acid (ok, one single expectation), reliable good quality in the scene in europe.
Thats over.
Sad

I am on the just natural train also now !( at least for a longer time, lets see what the future brings)
Thats good
For me the situation fits in my plan to concentrate more on the natural medcines !

 

[TGO]

I live somewhat "isolated" from society and withdrawn from friend-circles, so some input what's going out there is very welcome.

TGO I take your word for it no doubt, then again I've felt numerous types of trips with same material, ranging from heavenly warm bliss to really cold and empty or "hollow" with all the same molecules.
Makes me wonder how much our own "frequencies" and those of the materials are responsible for the outcome. I've seriously mixed feeling about this, and as always one day is not the other, so nailing "truth" is slippery.

Again I take your experience serious in these matters, just wanted to add important variables in the game.

Most of my genuine ayahuasca experiences are rotten tomatoes in feeling throughout, only now and then it's pure bliss, so what's the bill on ayahuasca for me? I've thought it's cleaning up work and this is also the general explanation floating about. What if we grant so much credits to the "other" materials? Should we? Shouldn't we? As said, I have mixed feeling.

To end, I've had very "empty-ness" experiences (with maoi + spice) and found them quite "Zen". To be honest quite releasing from stars and teeters and phoohaas and stories of all kind and it feels like sort of: "At last, depth in silence, nothing better than this." while tripping nonetheless. It actually has become a favotite tuning. In that empty-ness I feel connection to the core beyond the stories of life and matter, there is so much nothing it's becoming scary & powerful without overflowing in the "superficial layer of things and history". But perhaps this is a different kind of "empty" as yours here in this thread about nbomes?

Big hug,
J.

Thanks Jees, as always your input is valid/respected and you bring up some good points. I guess these trips felt more like all flash and no substance. I wasn't able to gain anything from them, thus feeling "hollow." I was not able to achieve any sort of Zen or able to find the "silver lining" while in these states. On more classic psychedelics, I've never felt that hollow feeling...perhaps since it was new to me and uncomfortable, I quickly wrote it off as being unpleasant/unwanted...? I did try to embrace it, but to no avail. With the classics, I felt as if there was more of a purpose to what I was doing. More of a spiritual connection with other worldly energy sensing or sensations. NBOME made me feel almost like I was just wasting time. They were fun with a hint of frightening, yes, but spiritual or enlightening? Far from it IME/IMO.

So maybe our definitions of "emptiness" are different, but that is to be expected. After all, we are human. I guess another term for the hollowness I felt could be "fake"... as if, in comparison to say, mushrooms, it was like the NBOME was an imitation psychedelic. Or as if a t-ball team was trying to play in the major leagues, so to speak. But I must continue to stress that I am still unsure what NBOME it even was. I am, however, 95% sure it was not LSD. But there is still that 5% unknown factor which makes this even more difficult to conclude anything too concise.

 

[TGO]

Hollow is the perfect word to discribe the NBOMEs. I may also add disconected.

I really like the "spiritual-emptyness" I can feel on LSD , it connects me with the
Universe and the Source.
But NBOME´s feel hollow and disconected. I took it first at a wonderfull Darkpsy/Forrest Festival , thinking it was LSD. It was like, oh nice Dancefloor and nice music ,but cant be part of it ,cant trance (wtf?), running arround overstimulated thinking "beautiful deco , sadly I cant enjoy it". And it was just a quarter blotter ! to test the "Acid" ...
no, thank you !
The same again , one Festival later ,very visual,but hollow and disconnected , no meditation possible.

It all went down the drain...
its really sad !

I am (was ?) really into the Psytrance scene , and those RC´s really change everything.
It (LSD) was a staple ,not just for the insiders who really care , but everyone could come to a festival and have a spiritual experience (or at least a paradigm shattering psycedelic one...), now (sice 2013, but really since 2014) the chances are really high that much people will just get a hollow and disconnected RC experience!!!
This can destroys the scene (or change it beyond recognition).
Some people get used to it.
They combine better with alcohol (agaist vasoconstriction, to fill the emptyness)
...
For 17 years i got just quality acid (ok, one single expectation), reliable good quality in the scene in europe.
Thats over.
Sad

I am on the just natural train also now !( at least for a longer time, lets see what the future brings)
Thats good
For me the situation fits in my plan to concentrate more on the natural medcines !

Sounds pretty spot on, man. RCs are changing the name of the game. It is a bit depressing, really. People slinging things here and there and calling them whatever the masses want it to be called. I didn't used to care, but now it makes me sick. I know I would never let myself live it down if I was the one responsible for giving someone an RC under false pretenses and they ended up having a seizure and dying or something of that dramatic nature. That is why I had to get away from that scene altogether. I cut ties and never looked back. I've been much happier ever since. I spend all my time with my lady, only every once in a while do we even go out and about the town. I prefer seclusion for the most part, and my circle of friends is quite small anymore. I wouldn't want it any other way.

I am on a more of a spiritual quest these days to "find myself" ... did the whole religion and church thing as a kid growing up and abandoned it. This is a different kind of quest. A search inward. The best part is never knowing exactly what I might find...good bad or otherwise!

 

[Bancopuma]

I can definitely concur TGO. I don't dabble with research chemicals anymore, have been there, don't that and it doesn't interest me any more. I've had a fair few experiences with the 2C's and NBOME's, and while some of these were interesting, the majority were also experienced as hollow. One of my friends resonated with me...while he has less experience than I, he found his 2C experience to be "spiritually empty" compared to LSD. With LSD, and mushrooms and mescaline and aya/DMT, I dependably find these to be feel intrinsically wholesome, well rounded and all encompassing, brimming over with this nice energy, connecting me more deeply to nature, planet and myself. I remember at one music festival having some 25I that was powdered in capsules for snorting, I'd not encountered it in this form before...my sister and a good friend and I snorted a capsule each and it was way, way too much for that environment, complete sensory overload...it was an interesting experience in a sense, due to the degree my brain's filters were offline, but totally the wrong environment. It was more anxiety inducing too, given that we were all in the deep end of a pretty much unknown research chemical, and it definitely did not make things easier or more pleasurable that's for sure, and I felt burnt out afterwards. Someone actually stole my stash tin containing the rest of it...that person was in for a shock if they decided to have a line of that stuff.

Another night, two close friends and I had a blotter each of 25I. It was powerful, but not in a particularly nice way. And all three of us had physical issues that night...I had incredible heart burn (which I never got), I just could not get rid of despite anti-acids, my other friend felt like he needed the toilet all the time (and often did), and my other friend had a few brief episodes of seizures. Unknown to her and us at the time, she actually had a large brain tumour, that this psychedelic was revealing. She has since had this tumour removed after an invasive but highly successful operation and she is on the mend, bless her.

It was after this experience that I vowed not to touch research chemicals again, it just doesn't seem worth the risk to me, so much better and more rewarding to grow ones' own stuff where feasible, stick to plants and fungi and to only ever go through trusted sources for any other occasional delights.

 

[DoingKermit]

Grateful One, I can totally relate to the "hollow" aspect you are referring to. I have luckily only had a couple trips with an unknown RC that was sold as acid. Both times the tabs were insanely bitter and the trip was accompanied by the largest dose of body-load I have ever experienced. I have no idea if it was from the DO? family or if it was NBOME, but my goodness was it unpleasant. I couldn't move off the couch for hours and the whole experience felt completely off. I just felt gross for the most part. The only RC I tend to enjoy is 2CB and that's usually if I want a psychedelic edge to a night out where I think it could be a bit too crowded to take acid.

I have to agree that growing and extracting has become the best and safest way to take psychedelics IMO. The relationship I have formed with these substances makes the experience that much more special. Too bad LSD is so hard to synthesize! How many years would it take to gain a Ph.D in chemistry?

 

[UgraKarma]

It seems as though NBOMEs have become the DOM/STP of our generation, in that they're sold as LSD and last much longer and have a ore toxic down side if overused. I have never used an NBOME, but will admit to enjoying DOM/STP quite a great deal, especially when a "lighter trip" (less than 10mgs.) is called for, but the effects are desired to last for most of the day. The only issue would be if I were to take it under the pretense of it being LSD, then I could imagine being quite bummed out. No chemical is inherently good or bad, some just have great track records and others are likely to be misrepresented.

I feel like the core of the OP is not so much "Why RC's are bad" so much as "Why misrepresented substances are bad," which is a much simpler argument.

 

[TGO]

I can definitely concur TGO. I don't dabble with research chemicals anymore, have been there, don't that and it doesn't interest me any more. I've had a fair few experiences with the 2C's and NBOME's, and while some of these were interesting, the majority were also experienced as hollow. One of my friends resonated with me...while he has less experience than I, he found his 2C experience to be "spiritually empty" compared to LSD. With LSD, and mushrooms and mescaline and aya/DMT, I dependably find these to be feel intrinsically wholesome, well rounded and all encompassing, brimming over with this nice energy, connecting me more deeply to nature, planet and myself. I remember at one music festival having some 25I that was powdered in capsules for snorting, I'd not encountered it in this form before...my sister and a good friend and I snorted a capsule each and it was way, way too much for that environment, complete sensory overload...it was an interesting experience in a sense, due to the degree my brain's filters were offline, but totally the wrong environment. It was more anxiety inducing too, given that we were all in the deep end of a pretty much unknown research chemical, and it definitely did not make things easier or more pleasurable that's for sure, and I felt burnt out afterwards. Someone actually stole my stash tin containing the rest of it...that person was in for a shock if they decided to have a line of that stuff.

Another night, two close friends and I had a blotter each of 25I. It was powerful, but not in a particularly nice way. And all three of us had physical issues that night...I had incredible heart burn (which I never got), I just could not get rid of despite anti-acids, my other friend felt like he needed the toilet all the time (and often did), and my other friend had a few brief episodes of seizures. Unknown to her and us at the time, she actually had a large brain tumour, that this psychedelic was revealing. She has since had this tumour removed after an invasive but highly successful operation and she is on the mend, bless her.

It was after this experience that I vowed not to touch research chemicals again, it just doesn't seem worth the risk to me, so much better and more rewarding to grow ones' own stuff where feasible, stick to plants and fungi and to only ever go through trusted sources for any other occasional delights.

Wow, man! Glad to hear your friend was okay! That is what scares me the most, though. I've read other reports of people taking high doses of who-knows-what (RCs) and seizing. Some of them turned out fine, thankfully, like in the case of your friend, but others have not been so lucky. These chemicals can be dangerous or deadly when taken carelessly (or when you don't know what you are taking) and yet people still gobble them up like candy. Scary stuff!

Grateful One, I can totally relate to the "hollow" aspect you are referring to. I have luckily only had a couple trips with an unknown RC that was sold as acid. Both times the tabs were insanely bitter and the trip was accompanied by the largest dose of body-load I have ever experienced. I have no idea if it was from the DO? family or if it was NBOME, but my goodness was it unpleasant. I couldn't move off the couch for hours and the whole experience felt completely off. I just felt gross for the most part. The only RC I tend to enjoy is 2CB and that's usually if I want a psychedelic edge to a night out where I think it could be a bit too crowded to take acid.

I have to agree that growing and extracting has become the best and safest way to take psychedelics IMO. The relationship I have formed with these substances makes the experience that much more special. Too bad LSD is so hard to synthesize! How many years would it take to gain a Ph.D in chemistry?

Ah yes, I forgot to talk about the body load in the report. It was heavy and uncomfortable to me as well. We found ourselves constantly stretching while plastered to the couch or floor to prevent tension build up. Usually stretching is an amazing aspect of psychedelic trips but at some points it felt as if cramps were coming on, usually in the legs. Now, perhaps I just needed to eat a banana and get some potassium to counteract that feeling but I feel as though the NBOME was over amplifying the whole situation. I guess I could have been slightly dehydrated too so perhaps it wasn't just the drug causing 100% of the body load. Either way, it wasn't euphoric and pleasurable as with most classic psychedelic body loads, IME.

No chemical is inherently good or bad, some just have great track records and others are likely to be misrepresented.

I feel like the core of the OP is not so much "Why RC's are bad" so much as "Why misrepresented substances are bad," which is a much simpler argument.

That is 100% exactly what I am getting at. RCs may indeed have their uses, but being tricked into taking them because of misrepresentation is a scary way to be introduced. I don't think RCs are inherently good or bad either but when people lie to make a profit, they play a dangerous game. Because of these things I have changed my way of thinking about the underground world of drugs. I never venture there anymore because I no longer need the shady services provided.