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Welcome back, four-eyes. Missed you and your tales of galactic spiritual exploration.

As for the ego. I have very little to say that hasn't already been keenly observed and dissected here by this group of spirinauts (?). All I know is that the ego takes where the spirit gives. And that the hardest lesson in life for me is to know that whatever you give is replaced. The universe is abundant. Humans come along, develop the dollar and suddenly there's not enough resources to go around??? Horse-puckey...

I have lost all worldly possessions three times in my life (twice to fire, once to addiction)and IT HURT! But thankfully I came out of it a better person with an empirical understanding of what is truly important. I have been humbled by life and the initial anger from it has evolved into understanding my true place in this world.

In this place of over six billion people no one is that much better or worse(what is your ego saying right now, hmmmm?). I am not special in the grand scheme of things. YAY!!!! One less thing.

I keep to myself, try not to hurt others, support my family and rely on others as little as possible. That IS my job in this place. That and to explore the limits of the mind I was born into(the limits of the body...not so much..no triathlete here).

If you have read this far, then congratulations, its been a ramble. The lesson is seek not to control, to judge or to be approved of. The proverbial reed in the river. As for fear...My guess is you have regained that ground already. You have a resilient and powerful spirit and neither your left-brain or your neo-cortex are any match for it.<third-eye bitch slaps ego. Curtain.>

I am glad you are back, my friend, my thoughts and actions have been affected by your attitude for the better and I am grateful.


See you under the dome.

Peace,

J

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I think one major mistake made by most religions/spiritual practices is the detachment of the ego. We are connected to this reality and our Earth through our ego.
We exist IN THIS REALITY and our ego is WHO WE ARE in this reality and WHO GOD WANTS US TO BE. We fulfill our purpose THROUGH THIS EXISTENCE and THROUGH OUR EGO.

One can TRANSCEND above their ego, but complete ego loss is dangerous.
We lose our identity, our imagination, our thoughts, everything that comes to us through this ego and makes us individuals.
When we TRANSCEND our ego we still retain ourselves as individuals in the reality that surrounds us, seen and unseen.

I understand why many seek ego loss. Detach from the corrupted self sculpted by society and become part of the ONE BEING (GOD) that we ALL are a part of.
However, we still exist as part of this singular God AND as individuals in this reality. This is life's challenge.

It is our goal to realize our purpose through our ego as conscious ends in the fractal being that is our existence and is God.

This is why it is important for us to control our egos and sculpt them and use them to help others within this reality.
The clues are everywhere guiding us along our path. God wants us all to succeed because he lives in us and comes to full form through us.
Life is about aligning OUR EGO with OUR PATH and I feel simply escaping the ego is dangerous in this way because we may consequently lose our path.
We only lose our ego when we lose our existence in this physical reality and we need to transcend our ego and allow all thoughts and actions to come from God while we exist here.

Ugh, so much to say but I just wanted to offer my opinions on ego loss.
I realize this contradicts many of the beliefs people hold here and hope that my metaphors do not distract from the true meanings of the words written,
but greater things can be accomplished through this existence when we are able to work WITH OUR EGO.
 
here's a thought:

what's the earliest memory you have? young childhood for most of us..... NOW, think of who you were then and who you are now. for me, my first memory was around age 4 or 5. i'm almost 39 now. i DISTINCTLY remember this early childhood memory and, more significantly to my point, i remember BEING ME during that memory.
am i that same person now....35 years later? not even remotely in one sense....and yet, i'm ME now just as i was ME then...

this ME of which i speak I personally believe to be my truest self. my god-self if you will. it is the me that cannot be destroyed. it is the me that will continue on long after this body is gone. if you think of it this way, we have ALL gone through countless deaths in this lifetime alone. you are not the same person you were a week ago and yet, YOU were both people. it is this eternal self that is left when DMT has done away with all the superfluous extras. i am not my body. i am not my mind. i am something far beyond that...

my ego is born of my mind. it is therefore one of the things i check at the door of the chateau hyperspace. i take no offense to it's existence outside of my spice journeys....i do understand it's role in certain aspects of life. HOWEVER, with that being said i would also suggest that what you are putting forth mattimus, is the assertion of a religion.

a buddhist would read what you just wrote and disagree. nothing combative or provocative....simply not their (or my) belief. the ego creates itself as the illusion of this world begins to cloud the perfect vision we are born with. one by one, fears and beliefs are foist upon us until one day we become aware of something we lost....the malaise that 99% of people feel in their lives...be it "teen angst" or "midlife crisis" or "ennui"....is really just a feeling of having drifted away from one's true self. from the source.

aligning your ego to a purpose is a borderline ridiculous statement to me. it would be the same as saying "well john, i see you've stitched yourself up a pretty cool looking clown costume.....probably be best for you to go work in a circus.."

meanwhile- john actually made that clown outfit for himself because being the "funny guy" was how he learned to balance the equation back at home where alcoholism, violence or neglect ran rampant. these egos we carry are identities we create to fit our environments...nothing more. they represent your truest self the way a cell phone represents a fish.

i want to stand naked and CHOOSE whatever i wear...and CHANGE that outfit whenever i see fit. i want to be open to all aspects of life and a concrete identity/costume is not going to facilitate that.

for me- i choose to follow a middle way. forever striving to let go of attachment, with attachment of ego being #1 on the list. i believe that it has never been my ego that has gotten me to where i am today....but it is TOTALLY my ego that has held me back from doing a LOT in my life. and as for consequently losing my path should my ego go to sleep for a moment....actually, i believe that in that flickering moment (they are too infrequent and too brief!) i am actually SHOWN my true path.

stay in the illusion of your ego and follow the illusory ego path.

strive to go beyond ego and follow the true path.

for me it really is this cut and dry. hope i didn't offend anyone....i don't want to seem dogmatic or close-minded. this post is simply an honest, respectful disagreement with what i just read in the previous post. i LOVE that you have expressed your view on the matter, mattimus. this is the first time i've seen you on the nexus and i would like to say a hearty hello and a big thank you for putting your view out there! keep 'em coming! :D

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
 
I think the trap the buddhists are aware of is that once you start to believe that the ego has an important part in the grand scheme of things - actually, even thinking about a "grand scheme of things" may be a big no-no in the Buddhist world - it's quite easy to get involved in all sorts of immature psychological games which very quickly become serious hindrances on the spiritual path.

Therefore they say you should get rid of the ego but when you finally complete your journey and stand in the face of the Void - understanding the base of everything - you will naturally turn back, and be born again into this world, as a selfless servant of God (that's how I like to express it).

For me, these three stages are represented as the Hinayana, Mahayana and Vajrayana stages of the Buddhist path. Hinayana is about attaining ego loss, Mahayana is the practice of the selfless state (God acting through us) and Vajrayana is becoming the co-creators of Reality.

I feel this same thing in Christianity when they talk about becoming members in the body of Christ.
 
i want to stand naked and CHOOSE whatever i wear...and CHANGE that outfit whenever i see fit. i want to be open to all aspects of life and a concrete identity/costume is not going to facilitate that.
Click to expand...

I think when we get to the point where we really stand naked, it's not us who makes the decisions any more. Actually, choice becomes entirely irrelevant (who would make the choice anyway). Drive -> Driven.

That's what the Christians are talking about when they say we should put our lives into the hands of God and let him rule us (although the word "rule" is not the most fortunate choice here). Obedience is another bad word. They gave this story such a bad rep with their choice of words. When the difference between Creator and Created vanishes, who is obedient? Who rules whom? It's just so difficult to bring this point at home.
 
Antrocles beautifully said, as a Buddahist I would have to disagree with what Mattimus said "One can TRANSCEND above their ego, but complete ego loss is dangerous. We lose our identity, our imagination, our thoughts, everything that comes to us through this ego and makes us individuals. When we TRANSCEND our ego we still retain ourselves as individuals in the reality that surrounds us, seen and unseen."

For me personally I don't feel the pursuit of complete ego loss is dangerous, One of my main goals in my life is to achieve complete detachment from my ego. I don't think anything negative can come from detaching from something which only holds me back and blinds me. If i think back to when i was really young as Antrocles said, I was than far more my true self than i will ever be. I wasn't imprinted with behaviors from my parents and the world around me, our core self and true nature of the mind does not reside within our ego. Thank you for your view though Mattimus its really interesting to read other perspectives and perceptions.


Much Peace and Happiness
 
I think, by "transcending the ego" and "achieving complete detachment from the ego" you mean the same thing.

As if the focus of existence moved from the ego to something beyond, thereby the ego becoming "subordinate" to that Other.
 
If i think back to when i was really young as Antrocles said, I was than far more my true self than i will ever be.
Click to expand...

Well, this may be true for you. Maybe it is also true - in a sense - for everyone.

But watching my children - a 8 year old boy and a 5 year old girl - develop helped me put to a rest the idealized fantasy that children are a sort of blank sheet, an innocent, pure canvas on which we - evil grown-ups - paint our crazy ideas about how things should be, thereby causing them to forget their pristine, enlightened state. Yes, they can be really innocent and it's wonderful to see that. But they can also be totally ignorant of everybody else, incredibly selfish - and they do this just as innocently as the wonderful things. Yes, they may be beyond duality, but this seems to be a completely unenlightened kind of unity to me. It just begs for the cultivation of something more.

Maybe that's how it is: we are born from this undifferentiated unity onto this world to learn that single thing (love?) that is necessary to raise this unity to the next level, where it can become conscious. Perhaps the whole human history is a history of this learning process, as we - as a race - try again and again to find the correct ways to live with this new ability (reason?) so that it can be integrated into the whole without wreaking havoc in it. Since millennia, we are playing with this fire and through the karma we created, we slowly come to realize what responsibility we have regarding this newly found power.

When we finally grow up, unity will be restored, but that will be a different kind of unity than that of children. It will be the same, but also something more. Something wonderful. :)
 
cellux -

As if the focus of existence moved from the ego to something beyond, thereby the ego becoming "subordinate" to that Other.
Click to expand...

This rings a bell with me. I feel that love or insight is immediate and that ego should follow. Just as our physical bodies are necessary and know their place- ticking away in the background. The ego should not lead. The ego has a function but must be continually enlightened in its operation by "that other". Our physical bodies have their function to perform and they serve us. Our ego (us) has a function to perform and should serve "that other". That other is not separate from us. We are perhaps now sufficiently developed as a race to become aware of that source, that other. If the ego were to be put in it's place in this way then I feel that we would be enhanced rather than diminished in any way. In one incarnation fully human and yet fully divine?
 
In one incarnation fully human and yet fully divine?
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Yep. That's what I mean when I'm talking about joining Heaven and Earth. And that's what I find fascinating in the Christian religion, that JC was a first example of this marriage of flesh and spirit, a bringer of the dawn.
 
from personal experience..i see losing the ego as losing all of your memories of your life..it can be a very confusing place..not knowing who you are...how you got here and so on..if you are calm about it its ok...but can you imagine not remembering what happened 1 second ago? for the rest of your life? if you can still remember your life..you still have your ego..
 
MY GOD THIS THREAD IS TURNING INTO SOMETHING RIGHTEOUS!!!!

cellux- absolutely beautiful, poignant and well articulated points! i feel you deeply. transitory, aegle and jorkest- same goes! i think it is crucial and part of our "responsibility" to explore exactly what the ego's role IS in this world. it certainly assists in the day to day functions....but can just as easily trap us within them. i do agree that there is an evolution that takes place whereby the ego is overcome and then reintegrated with that new-found enlightenment now calling the shots. having the ego intact, yet subordinate to that higher self sounds like a recipe for profoundly helping others....for bringing about a "critical mass" of awakening...

...2012 anyone? he he he..... ;)


so much gratitude for all of your sharing you guys....i just got home from training and IMMEDIATELY popped on to read this thread....i felt like a kid on christmas morning all giddy and excited to have so many wonderful views shared with me.

...and trust me....i incorporate ALL of them into my view of life. if we are all truly part of one, then EVERYONE'S voice matters. this forum is a magic place for healing, learning and growing....this is truly a special, sacred place!!

and many blessings to you jasons!! always smile-inducing to see your avatar in the mix! :D

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!!
 
cellux said:
i want to stand naked and CHOOSE whatever i wear...and CHANGE that outfit whenever i see fit. i want to be open to all aspects of life and a concrete identity/costume is not going to facilitate that.
Click to expand...

I think when we get to the point where we really stand naked, it's not us who makes the decisions any more. Actually, choice becomes entirely irrelevant (who would make the choice anyway). Drive -> Driven.

That's what the Christians are talking about when they say we should put our lives into the hands of God and let him rule us (although the word "rule" is not the most fortunate choice here). Obedience is another bad word. They gave this story such a bad rep with their choice of words. When the difference between Creator and Created vanishes, who is obedient? Who rules whom? It's just so difficult to bring this point at home.
Click to expand...


The part you seem to be missing is that ego loss is a 100% rejoining with who you truely are at the core!!
The anthropomorphic (christian) "god" that you talk of, is just a construct of another human mind...feeling separated by his ego & looking for answers.

You (we) are that god!!
Losing your ego (the thing that makes you think you are separate) allows you to realize that you are god...there is no castle up in the clouds called heaven & no one is going to spank you for being bad...except yourself.
Remove all this physical meat that separates us & you have the true self...the soul if you want to call it that!!
Or god...if you want to call it that...universal consciousness seems more appropriate to me though.

Let me quote JC, "The kingdom of heaven is inside you"!!!
In other words, you are god, you are heaven.
Sadly most churches & religions profit from people's need to remember this.:cry: And then they steer them in the opposite direction, away from trusting themselves.
Taught instead to rely on the church for their connection to "god", so they can continue to profit from that need.

Ego loss is one step in remembering who you really are without all this physical reality's dogma weighing you down!!
But that can be earth shattering to some people. Particularly the ones who are heavily invested in the idea of duality.


Antrocles, I too clearly remember certain thoughts from my childhood, I think the earliest is around age 5-6.
I too have noticed the same thing you have!! I remember the thought process & inner monologue to be the exact same as is it now at age 34!!
Albeit at 34yrs old I have more a lot more experiences to base those thought & decisions around, but the foundational thought process & voice was the exact same.

I think that is an amazing thing to take into account when waxing poetic on the ego & how it shapes those thoughts & decisions throughout a lifetime!!

cheers!
WS
 
jasons741 said:
.I have lost all worldly possessions three times in my life, twice to fire...
Click to expand...

Oh My, I don't mean to derail the conversation here, buuuut.....how the hell does that happen 2 times to 1 person?
Ooh Fa man, that just sucks!!


Glad to hear your not all pissed at the whole world!!

WS
 
you all see what i'm talking about???!?? WS- AWESOME, AWESOME AND AWESOME!!!

the depth of thought in forum is epic. makes me think of a quote i read a while back that went something like:

SMALL MINDS TALK ABOUT PEOPLE

AVERAGE MINDS TALK ABOUT EVENTS

GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS....

there are some truly great minds at work on this site. truly.
 
cellux said:
I think, by "transcending the ego" and "achieving complete detachment from the ego" you mean the same thing.
As if the focus of existence moved from the ego to something beyond, thereby the ego becoming "subordinate" to that Other.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
They are essentially the same when you achieve ego transcendence or ego loss,
but the point is you still maintain your individualism as part of this reality when you transcend.

antrocles said:
a buddhist would read what you just wrote and disagree. nothing combative or provocative....simply not their (or my) belief. the ego creates itself as the illusion of this world begins to cloud the perfect vision we are born with. one by one, fears and beliefs are foist upon us until one day we become aware of something we lost....the malaise that 99% of people feel in their lives...be it "teen angst" or "midlife crisis" or "ennui"....is really just a feeling of having drifted away from one's true self. from the source.
Click to expand...

And for this reason I would disagree with a buddhist. I believe we are born WITH our ego and with true intentions, but I agree that it becomes EXTREMELY corrupted by the illusions you mention.
God wants us all to be saved, not to only save ourselves and we need to use our ego to help communicate with others through their ego and connect them to the source as well.
I believe this physical reality is just as real as whatever exists after this reality and we need to strive for greatness in both realms.

We are connected to the source at all times but our ego blocks us from it, so we TRANSCEND our ego and it does not block us from aligning with "God's" path.
All action comes from God or from our ego. When we TRANSCEND the ego we allow these God actions to become our actions but we do not lose our ego.
Our ego becomes godly and we become GOD ON EARTH, and not God in our minds. We become JESUS. We are ALL Jesus. We are ALL living incarnations of God.

And JESUS LOVES YOU ALL. 8)
 
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