how dmt works

[unansweredquestions]

so i was thinking, through my research of dmt over the last few years..ive never truly understood how dmt works on the brain.

would any of you scientists out there be able to put it into laymans terms whats actualy happening to your brain when taking dmt?

 

[jamie]

Psychedelic Information Theory by James Kent - Open Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[endlessness]

and FAQ:

FAQ - DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

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Is there anything in particular you want to know about? Like pharmacology/neurochemistry, or psychologically, or spiritually/experientially or? There are many ways to look at the phenomenon.

It binds to a certain subtype of serotonin receptors, mostly 5HT2a (so do most classic psychedelics) .. Now, how does this translates to the visions we see during the experiences, thats the hard part to explain, I dont think anybody really knows. The link fractal enchantment posted is one attempt to explain it.

 

[Global]

I'm currently reading James Oroc's "Tryptamine Palace" and I just got through his quantum explanation of the experience which seems pretty convincing (even if true, just one way of looking at it).

 

[Tsehakla]

Perceptual effects are likely the result of messed up brain chemistry (the 5-HT2A, etc., receptor stuff) where control and feedback systems don't work quite the way they evolved to, the consciousness effects are a genuine mystery because no one knows how consciousness arises in the first place.

My own wacky hypothesis is that consciousness arises from the interaction of our biochemical and physiological control/feedback systems, and the minute electromagnetic fields caused by the movement of the ions (i.e., charged chemical species) which make up nerve impulses. Our conscious mind is linked to (or runs in) primarily those nerve cell networks connected to our senses, and our subconscious (perhaps made up of many suppressed minds) is linked to (or runs in) networks not directly connected to our senses. When we ingest psychedelics our senses become so scrambled that our normal conscious mind stops functioning properly and the less affected subconscious mind(s) become less suppressed.

The entities that arise from extreme psychedelic events are actually the normally suppressed or subconscious mind(s) coming to the forefront--notice how entity contact is most often reported with those psychedelics that are able to more completely wipe out our senses, such as DMT and salvinorin-A.

 

[christian]

As Nick Sand said, Psychadelics decondition the mind.

 

[Enoon]

http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/2011/05/16/psilocybin-reduces-blood-flow-to-the-brain/

about psilocybin but perhaps of interest

 

[toppy]

When you smoke vaporized DMT. It somehow tunes the pineal gland to an extremley high frequency (wavelength), this is kind of how we are evolving into the next dimension.

As the suns gamma rays get stronger and stronger, its starting to awaken everyones pineal gland. My pineal gland ("third eye" ) is activated and getting stronger everyday, believe me or not, no matter where i look, eyes open or eyes closed, straight in front of my vision is the purple eye, the stronger you focus on this eye, the deeper you get into the next dimension, and eventualy you can literally see the color spectrum, which ranges from red to indigo, the same as the chakra system, this is where things get interesting.

If i were to focus on the green part of the spectrum, i will start to tune my pineal gland into that frequency, and then you will start seeing the same stuff as if you were on DMT, but just not as strong unless you develop your powers. When you do DMT it literaly throws you straight into the deep end of the light spectrum and its harder to obtain this knowledge because it happens so fast. When you have a "breakthrough" on DMT, you are literally touching the tip of the pyramid in terms of frequency level, you are literaly going from "visible light" straight to the top end in the violet/gamma ray frequency.

What i have learned recently is amazing and i am trying to make people understand. When people think of the third eye, they assume its just purple, but this is wrong, it just depends on what color of the spectrum you are focusing on, if i were to focus on the green part of the spectrum, the third eye become a green eye which you have to focus on in the same way. I find that tuning into the orange and yellow frequencies are the hardest because there is such a fine line in the color spectrum. The accelerating strength in gamma rays is what makes it easiest to tune into the purple color. Also each different frequency you enter in your eyes will effect your bodies energy, and balance or unbalance your energy spots (chakras).

I know i have gone a bit off topic but could not resist, this is the best way IN MY OPINION, how to describe DMT.

Every bit of this is my knowledge of my own body and none of it has been influenced by anything i have ever read or seen, even the chakra system.

 

[corpus callosum]

Heres an okay overview of the neuropharmacolgy of DMT but this article tends to focus on ayahuasca mainly.Of note is the fact that DMT has effects on a range of receptors, and in order to decipher which aspect of the DMT experience is mediated by which receptor(s) it is a formidable task due to the exponential possible effects between agonism at some of, or all of the receptors simultaneously.

http://neurophys.wisc.edu/~cozzi%20rebutal%20statement%20010909.pdf

Its also important to bear in mind the issue is further complicated by the different second messengers which are employed by the different subtypes of receptor post-activation.

As a side-issue it has been found relatively recently that certain types of familial migraine (for example Familial Hemiplegic Migraine) are related to genetically different ion channels on the trigeminal nucleus mainly in the brainstem (but some in a tract between this nucleus and the hypothalamus) which allow conductance and fluxes of chloride ions across the axonal membranes in a different fashion to those who dont have FHM.I think as we get to know more about these things, I wouldnt be surprised if gentically determined differences in the structure of the many receptors will be found which can result in a variety of effects once the second messengers have done their job.


So to sum up, we are still a good distance from answering the question the OP asks and ultimately there may not be a unified theory explaining the action of DMT in all individuals.

 

[unansweredquestions]

cool stuff here, so beyond binding to certain receptors, nobody truly knows for sure the corse of action within the brain which results in a change of conciousness and visual field?

 

[endlessness]

When you smoke vaporized DMT. It somehow tunes the pineal gland to an extremley high frequency (wavelength), this is kind of how we are evolving into the next dimension.

As the suns gamma rays get stronger and stronger, its starting to awaken everyones pineal gland. My pineal gland ("third eye" ) is activated and getting stronger everyday, believe me or not, no matter where i look, eyes open or eyes closed, straight in front of my vision is the purple eye, the stronger you focus on this eye, the deeper you get into the next dimension, and eventualy you can literally see the color spectrum, which ranges from red to indigo, the same as the chakra system, this is where things get interesting.

If i were to focus on the green part of the spectrum, i will start to tune my pineal gland into that frequency, and then you will start seeing the same stuff as if you were on DMT, but just not as strong unless you develop your powers. When you do DMT it literaly throws you straight into the deep end of the light spectrum and its harder to obtain this knowledge because it happens so fast. When you have a "breakthrough" on DMT, you are literally touching the tip of the pyramid in terms of frequency level, you are literaly going from "visible light" straight to the top end in the violet/gamma ray frequency.

What i have learned recently is amazing and i am trying to make people understand. When people think of the third eye, they assume its just purple, but this is wrong, it just depends on what color of the spectrum you are focusing on, if i were to focus on the green part of the spectrum, the third eye become a green eye which you have to focus on in the same way. I find that tuning into the orange and yellow frequencies are the hardest because there is such a fine line in the color spectrum. The accelerating strength in gamma rays is what makes it easiest to tune into the purple color. Also each different frequency you enter in your eyes will effect your bodies energy, and balance or unbalance your energy spots (chakras).

I know i have gone a bit off topic but could not resist, this is the best way IN MY OPINION, how to describe DMT.

Every bit of this is my knowledge of my own body and none of it has been influenced by anything i have ever read or seen, even the chakra system.

What if my pineal is color blind?

 

[Enoon]

When you smoke vaporized DMT. It somehow tunes the pineal gland to an extremley high frequency (wavelength), this is kind of how we are evolving into the next dimension.

As the suns gamma rays get stronger and stronger, its starting to awaken everyones pineal gland. My pineal gland ("third eye" ) is activated and getting stronger everyday, believe me or not, no matter where i look, eyes open or eyes closed, straight in front of my vision is the purple eye, the stronger you focus on this eye, the deeper you get into the next dimension, and eventualy you can literally see the color spectrum, which ranges from red to indigo, the same as the chakra system, this is where things get interesting.

If i were to focus on the green part of the spectrum, i will start to tune my pineal gland into that frequency, and then you will start seeing the same stuff as if you were on DMT, but just not as strong unless you develop your powers. When you do DMT it literaly throws you straight into the deep end of the light spectrum and its harder to obtain this knowledge because it happens so fast. When you have a "breakthrough" on DMT, you are literally touching the tip of the pyramid in terms of frequency level, you are literaly going from "visible light" straight to the top end in the violet/gamma ray frequency.

What i have learned recently is amazing and i am trying to make people understand. When people think of the third eye, they assume its just purple, but this is wrong, it just depends on what color of the spectrum you are focusing on, if i were to focus on the green part of the spectrum, the third eye become a green eye which you have to focus on in the same way. I find that tuning into the orange and yellow frequencies are the hardest because there is such a fine line in the color spectrum. The accelerating strength in gamma rays is what makes it easiest to tune into the purple color. Also each different frequency you enter in your eyes will effect your bodies energy, and balance or unbalance your energy spots (chakras).

I know i have gone a bit off topic but could not resist, this is the best way IN MY OPINION, how to describe DMT.

Every bit of this is my knowledge of my own body and none of it has been influenced by anything i have ever read or seen, even the chakra system.

Well, personally I don't agree with this. I don't want to start a discussion about scientific validity or evidence here. You are entitled to this belief, and welcome to share it with us.

In my opinion however I think you should rephrase this post using language that makes it clear that this is your belief or experience of how dmt works, rather than facts. I think it is important to differentiate between the two. There is nothing wrong with holding beliefs, even if they are strange or unaccepted by others, so long as they are somehow helpful I guess. But I think it's dangerous to not know the difference between belief and facts.

 

[joedirt]

It binds to a certain subtype of serotonin receptors, mostly 5HT2a (so do most classic psychedelics) ..

This is being challenged pretty rapidly these day's. I have a paper that measures IC50 values for a lot of psychedelics across alot brain receptors. It turns out many have much higher affinities for other receptor subtypes as well. In fact you'd be surprised just how promiscuous these compounds actually are....showing affinity for dopamine receptors and quite a few others as well....I'll try and dig it up later. BTW all the work was done at NIH so it's pretty valid IMHO.

My personal view is that our brains have a 'normal' concentration of neurotransmitters that interact in a 'normal' way with our brains receptors. For instance perhaps at any given time the 5HT2a receptor is being hit 50% of the time, while 5HT3 is being hit 20% of the time....just examples I pulled form my ass and have no basis in reality.... Then when an external substance, DMT, psilocin, etc are added to the mix the relative ratios of neurotransmitter to receptor subtypes is skewed based on the non endogenous substance that was added.... This is why I think all psychedelics have their own flavor...IMO....and yes it's just an opinion at this point.

 

[endlessness]

Interesting joedirt! That source would be very nice!

I do remember reading something about other receptors in small amounts but I thought that still the biggest affinity was for 5ht2a receptors, and considering that when taking an antagonist like ketanserin, the psychedelic effects are completely blocked, it has to be the most essential to it, no?

 

[polytrip]

Interesting joedirt! That source would be very nice!

I do remember reading something about other receptors in small amounts but I thought that still the biggest affinity was for 5ht2a receptors, and considering that when taking an antagonist like ketanserin, the psychedelic effects are completely blocked, it has to be the most essential to it, no?

Maybe it shares it's affinity for other receptors with the psychedelics it blocks.

 

[corpus callosum]

We should remember that 'biggest affinity' for a ligand to a receptor does not necessarily equate with maximum actions being exerted through this receptor; an example which is not tryptamine-related but illustrates the principal is the ability of buprenorphine to displace the more potent mu-ligand methadone from the mu receptor but the mu-mediated effects from bupe are less than that of methadone.In this case specifically buprenorphine whilst binding strongly to the mu receptor exerts a partial agonist and partial ANTAGONIST effect.

These bloody receptors we have are fascinating but they are incredibly complex when we consider them in totality; the interplay between them is the crux of the matter.Plus, its not inconceivable that exposure to other agents (via diet, the air etc) can have effects on receptor density which as a consequence muddles it all further.

 

[polytrip]

I think the 5-HT effect is important though. The intake of psychedelics clearly diminishes serotonergic activity. Serotonin is a nerurotransmitter that regulates many systems within the brain.
People who suffer from depressions and compulsive disorders have lowered levels of serotonin as well.

I think feedbackloops are an essential part of how the brain functions, like many biological phenomena. Feedbackloops, reflection and other forms of iteration are responsible for almost all the interesting structures we know, like DNA decoding, language and fractal geometry.
It seems to me that serotonin normally tempers this feedbackloop mechanism, so that it doesn't spin out of controll. All essential functions within the brain and the rest of the body have tempering mechanisms that regulate them.

If the serotonergic activity is being diminished, i think feedbackloops are no longer being dampened and can spin out of control, causing stuck-in-a-loop sensations or endlessly repeating mental patterns that can lead to euphoria or when persisting over too long a period of time, to depressions and compulsive behaviour like endlessly having to wash your hands.

 

[Global]

If the serotonergic activity is being diminished, i think feedbackloops are no longer being dampened and can spin out of control, causing stuck-in-a-loop sensations or endlessly repeating mental patterns that can lead to euphoria or when persisting over too long a period of time, to depressions and compulsive behaviour like endlessly having to wash your hands.

That's fascinating if it's true. I've always wondered what caused those annoying loops that randomly pop up in the experience.

 

[Tsehakla]

Interesting joedirt! That source would be very nice!

I do remember reading something about other receptors in small amounts but I thought that still the biggest affinity was for 5ht2a receptors, and considering that when taking an antagonist like ketanserin, the psychedelic effects are completely blocked, it has to be the most essential to it, no?

Then you have salvinorin-A, which has next to no affinity for 5-HT2A but high affinity for the kappa opioid receptor. However,

"The opioid antagonist quadazocine
(0.32 mg/kg) fully blocked the effects of salvinorin A.
The k-selective antagonist GNTI (1 mg/kg; 24 h pretreat-
ment) did not cause significant antagonism of the effects
of salvinorin A (GNTI, under these conditions, was only
effective as an antagonist in two of three monkeys)."
[http://www.sagewisdom.org/butelmanetal.pdf]

It seems most likely that we don't know a whole lot more than we know (undiscovered receptors), and there may be a variety of different mechanisms leading to "psychedelic" effects.

Another thing to consider is that low affinity in a test tube may not necessarily correspond to low activity in a living system. I seem to recall reading about this specifically wrt enzymes, but since both enzymes and receptors are protein systems it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect similar effects.

 

[Tsehakla]

...
If the serotonergic activity is being diminished, i think feedbackloops are no longer being dampened and can spin out of control, causing stuck-in-a-loop sensations or endlessly repeating mental patterns that can lead to euphoria or when persisting over too long a period of time, to depressions and compulsive behaviour like endlessly having to wash your hands.

I think the Trace Amine hypothesis is looking pretty good for explaining euphoria.

see:
Endogenous psychoactive tryptamines reconsidered:
an anxiolytic role for dimethyltryptamine

at

Scientific Articles on DMT/Ayahuasca/Psychedelics - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

post #5, filename: DMT endogenous anxiolytic role.pdf