How Greta Thunberg is changing the world, and how you can change it too

[dragonrider]

Ten years ago, you wouldn't have seen such animosity. So it will probaby only get worse.

And considering that the DMT nexus consists of probably the 20 to 30% most liberal and open minded people of the general population, the rest of society will probably even suspect her of "working for the jews" or something.

Wich will be a solid argument for the average joe sixpack to believe that global warming is a hoax, and that the planet, wich is ofcourse flat instead of a sphere, is getting colder instead, and that we shouldn't be doing anything about carbon emissions because they're actually good.

Whatever is coming, we probably deserve it.

 

[Nydex]

Ten years ago, you wouldn't have seen such animosity. So it will probaby only get worse.

And considering that the DMT nexus consists of probably the 20 to 30% most liberal and open minded people of the general population, the rest of society will probably even suspect her of "working for the jews" or something.

Wich will be a solid argument for the average joe sixpack to believe that global warming is a hoax, and that the planet, wich is ofcourse flat instead of a sphere, is getting colder instead, and that we shouldn't be doing anything about carbon emissions because they're actually good.

Whatever is coming, we probably deserve it.

If you define "we" as:

who've reaped all the benefits of a dysfunctional extractive economy

I agree with everything you said here. Unfortunately "we" includes those who have never done any harm to nature, not in any comparable capacity to what the aforementioned "we" have done. The indigenous tribes, the forest people, and the children of our (and every next) generation(s). They don't deserve what's to come in any way.

It's a sad situation we find ourselves in, but I tend to be optimistic. There is still time to stop doing as much damage as we can. Of course all the extinct animal and plant species are gone for good, but at least we're discovering new ones that we can preserve with our future actions.

Maybe it's an unrealistic hope, but it's hope nonetheless.

 

[dragonrider]

The indigenous tribes, the forest people, and the children of our (and every next) generation(s). They don't deserve what's to come in any way.

Yes, that's true.

But they will get the chance to learn from our mistakes.

Wich will either be that when 97% of the scientists are warning about the destructive impact we have on our own planet, and the biggest stakeholders in these destructive processes buy politicians and mass media to convince us that these scientists work for elite globalists wich they say does not include themselves although they are the ones with all the money and power, we should listen to those scientists.

Or that 97% of the scientists where wrong and it was all just a bad dream.

 

[endlessness]

The way I see it, we are a part of Gaia, which is like a giant organism, except we forgot we are a part of it. Like cancer cells, reproducing at insane rates, at the cost of the host, so are we doing to our Mother.

If someone is calling the attention to the fact that our actions have impact on all other species, and that we must be mindful as a species on how we act, I think that's a wonderful thing. If someone is young and idealistic and fighting for what they think is right, I think that is a wonderful thing. Will people (companies, politicians, whatever) try to use her in order to get more power/fame/money? Sure, likely.. Does that take away from her message? Not IMO.

I think people are cynical because our society pushes us to be cynical, specially the news, which basically tell us every day, in all sorts of different ways, how we are meaningless and how everything is beyond our control. But I think that adopting that worldview is basically letting them win. Through every action we can express harmony with Gaia, the Universe or whatever you wanna call it, or we can express separation from it. It may seem like one person doesn't do much, but that is an incredibly important responsibility, to at least as one person, do what is right. And if we can spread the message and help others become conscious and change from being destructive to being constructive, even better, but at the very least we have to do our own part.

The fact that there are things bigger than us doesn't remove our personal responsibility. One day this earth will be gone, one day this universe will be gone, but this doesn't mean each second we are alive isn't incredibly important. We have to be grateful for being a part of this, even if it seems at times things are bad.

Lastly, as a father, I wish the planet would be at the level that my son deserves. And I'll do my part to get a little bit closer to that. But even if I wasn't a father, all children are our children, and we have to try and leave this planet (or our little corner of it) better than it was when we arrived.

 

[dragonrider]

The way I see it, we are a part of Gaia, which is like a giant organism, except we forgot we are a part of it. Like cancer cells, reproducing at insane rates, at the cost of the host, so are we doing to our Mother.

If someone is calling the attention to the fact that our actions have impact on all other species, and that we must be mindful as a species on how we act, I think that's a wonderful thing. If someone is young and idealistic and fighting for what they think is right, I think that is a wonderful thing. Will people (companies, politicians, whatever) try to use her in order to get more power/fame/money? Sure, likely.. Does that take away from her message? Not IMO.

I think people are cynical because our society pushes us to be cynical, specially the news, which basically tell us every day, in all sorts of different ways, how we are meaningless and how everything is beyond our control. But I think that adopting that worldview is basically letting them win. Through every action we can express harmony with Gaia, the Universe or whatever you wanna call it, or we can express separation from it. It may seem like one person doesn't do much, but that is an incredibly important responsibility, to at least as one person, do what is right. And if we can spread the message and help others become conscious and change from being destructive to being constructive, even better, but at the very least we have to do our own part.

The fact that there are things bigger than us doesn't remove our personal responsibility. One day this earth will be gone, one day this universe will be gone, but this doesn't mean each second we are alive isn't incredibly important. We have to be grateful for being a part of this, even if it seems at times things are bad.

Lastly, as a father, I hope our planet is at the level that my son deserves. And I'll certainly do my part. But even if I wasn't a father, all children are our children, and we have to try and leave this planet (or our little corner of it) better than it was when we arrived.

I realy love this comment. I think these are the wisest words in this whole thread.

And i admit that i am cynical.
Maybe that is wrong.
I know it is not an admirable trait.

But i just don't see any kind of climate policy that will actually be effective, being implemented anywhere in the near future.

-It can only succeed if the major economic powers want it to. And the USA, the worlds biggest economic power has already withdrawn from the paris treaty.
-It can only succeed if "cheating" will be detected AND sanctioned. Without the possibility of sanctions of some kind, it is destined to fail.

The costs of an effective climate policy will be high. That is just a fact. That is the first major problem. The second major problem is that the burden will have to be shared evenly.

The second problem is the reason why the first problem is unlikely to be solved. As long as not everyone contributes, it is only fair if some people are gonna ask "but why do I have to carry all of that load? ".

And i must say that i actually agree with that person.

Because ESPECIALLY when the future looks grimm and we might actually fail, you don't want to live in a world where cheating and dishonesty is being rewarded.

 

[dragonrider]

I think it is always good to ask yourself: "could i be wrong"? Or "could i have been brainwashed by propaganda"? And also "can i blame people for having a different view than me"?

And actually these are difficult philosophical questions because they are about right and wrong, and about truth and falsehood, wich are difficult philosophical topics.

But the way i see it, these questions can be made easier to answer, by rephrasing them. And i think a good way to rephrase them would be to try to get a picture of the sacrifices that have to be made, to safe your way of viewing the world.

And then the answer would be that if, in order to preserve your worldview, huge sacrifices will have to be made by yourself, or even worse, by others, there will come a point where your worldview is simply no longer sustainable.

So you would have to put yourself in someone else's shoes and then ask yourself if you would be willing to make those sacrifices your worldview demands.

So for instance, it is pretty easy to see that the sacrifices religious fundamentalists, or people who want to go back to a traditional patriarchical society, are demanding society to make, are simply unsustainable.

You would have to kill or imprison 90 % of the population, or even well over 99% to fullfill the needs of some fundamentalists.
That is a high cost. And if the only reason why we would have to sacrifice that much, would be, to prevent you from being offended....either by seeing two people of the same gender holding hands, or by some danish or french cartoon, then i don't think you are going to convince many people that those sacrifices are realy needed.

So where are we then in the climate debate?

The way i see it, on BOTH sides of the debate, people are demanding us to make realy huge sacrifices.

On the one hand: How long do you want to deny that the planet is getting warmer? And then, when you finally have to admit that it is, that human activity is a contributing factor?
If it is all a hoax, then how grotesque does the conspiracy have to be, to be believable?

If basically all of the politicians in the world, all of the scientists, all of the journalists, all government agencies, all financial institutions, all big multinational corporations and all of the businesmen and women have to be involved...so you are talking about almost anyone with a degree here...so basically for your worldview to be sustainable, around 20% of the population has to be in some way involved in this huge conspiracy....don't you think you are pushing it?

If more than 95% of the scientists specialised in the subject have to be wrong. So basically the whole scientific community has to be wrong. So basically the whole discipline of science has to be wrong...so something that has brought us computers, long distance communication, aviation, antibiotics, weapons of mass destruction, nuclear power, and more related to the topic, reliable weather forecasts, has to be wrong. Or the plausibility of global warming as the result of human activity, and it's consequences, has to be ignored. Only because you don't want to admit that some people you call "liberals" are right about something...don't you think that is pushing it?

But then on the other hand: do we europeans have to make huge economic sacrifices, for something that is with over 90% certainty going to fail anyway?

So let me give you an example: I live in the netherlands. Half of the country is below sea-level. Climate change is going to be a huge challenge to us.

What climate activists are demanding, is that we make huge economic sacrifices both in terms of investments as in loss of revenues. While china, america and india do nothing to reduce their carbon emissions, because either they haven't committed themselves to it, or they have, but simply won't deliver on it. This disparity will make our relative economic losses even greater, because our economy will shrink, while their economies will grow.
Because of this, our sacrifices will be nothing but a drop in the ocean.

But because our economy will have shrunk both in absolute and even more in relative terms, it will be take a much greater percentage of our GDP, to pay for all the infrastructure needed, to protect us against rising sealevels and extreme weater. Maybe so much even, that we simply won't be able to afford it.

So maybe our country is slowly going to vanish into the atlantic ocean, while the americans and the chinese, who will have done nothing to prevent this rise of the oceans, will have plenty of money left to build all the infrastructure needed to protect their coastal areas.

I don't think that would be fair, and i also don't think it would be a price worth paying for something that in the end will only have the value of us being able to say to our grandchilderen "well we tried".

 

[antares]

Some excellent points made there Dragonrider.

Something that most people are forgetting is that first world affluence was to a large extent fuelled by rapid industrialisation. Most of the americas and Europe was covered by forests which have disappeared in the last 200-300 years fuelling industrialisation and agriculturalisation. Most people in the first world are not short of food and creature comforts.

What moral right do we have to demand that countries like China, India, Brazil etc cease from trying to catch up with the affluence of the first world countries when these countries didn't have to play by any rules whatsoever to achieve it. Haven't their citizens as much right to aspire for the same levels of comfort as their western brethren?

These issues are extremely complicated and a lot of viewpoints in the media are extremely simplistic and black or white depending on your perspective.

The world will change (probably in a way we wont like) - that is inevitable. We and thousands of other species will be wiped off at some point and some other lifeforms will establish dominance on this planet.

 

[xss27]

On the one hand: How long do you want to deny that the planet is getting warmer? And then, when you finally have to admit that it is, that human activity is a contributing factor?

To my mind the equation is this; the balance between the arrogance of mans intellectual superiority and the vastness of his ignorance. Do we really understand enough to make the claims that we are making in regards to global climate? In my opinion we do not, because we are talking about processes on scales spatially and temporally that are simply too large to be understood with any degree of real certainty.

Also, the domain of the earth, sun and stellar environment is not as comprehensively understood as I think many would presume; if you dig into that domain of science you will see that to be so e.g sunspots, coronal heating, and so forth. So to postulate concrete dogmas about global climate when it is inherently connected to processes and systems simply beyond the scale of our comprehension, and when you see there may be elements of the puzzle not yet even discovered, to say the 'science is settled' is just an absolutely ludicrous statement that should be reserved for the dishonest media talking heads only.

I don't believe humans are causing warming of any appreciable measure. On balance the evidence and non-evidence does not sway me - the hysterical nature being intentionally whipped up in the public and evident political manoeuvring make it all the more suspicious, the whole thing does not strike me as a genuine crisis.

If it is all a hoax, then how grotesque does the conspiracy have to be, to be believable?

If basically all of the politicians in the world, all of the scientists, all of the journalists, all government agencies, all financial institutions, all big multinational corporations and all of the businesmen and women have to be involved...so you are talking about almost anyone with a degree here...so basically for your worldview to be sustainable, around 20% of the population has to be in some way involved in this huge conspiracy....don't you think you are pushing it?

I think this is a common fallacy about how conspiracies, how consensus thought or hypnosis, how lies operate. If they can keep the Game of Thrones Season 8 ending from leaking out, a TV production involving thousands of people which has only the threat of legal action to silence employees, do you not think some military or governmental conspiracy involving compartmentalisation and the threat of death or torture of you or loved ones could keep a secret under wraps?

We're also talking about something which is not absolute. It's not as if all the layers of people you mentioned really understand what they're pushing, and even the scientists may be pushing something they simply do not have the full picture on but believe genuinely anyway. It can function as a bandwagon that has benefits for all the layers involved, but it doesn't mean any of them actually have to believe it or understand it thoroughly - monetary, power or political gain is often enough to motivate people to say they believe in something.

If more than 95% of the scientists specialised in the subject have to be wrong. So basically the whole scientific community has to be wrong. So basically the whole discipline of science has to be wrong...so something that has brought us computers, long distance communication, aviation, antibiotics, weapons of mass destruction, nuclear power, and more related to the topic, reliable weather forecasts, has to be wrong. Or the plausibility of global warming as the result of human activity, and it's consequences, has to be ignored. Only because you don't want to admit that some people you call "liberals" are right about something...don't you think that is pushing it?

Personally, no, I don't. Referring to the original point I made about scales and uncertainty, what we understand about our cosmic environment is limited and not set in stone. We could very easily be wrong about much of our theory regarding that domain, and to be wrong about that domain could easily necessitate the re-writing of a lot of scientific and historical theory.. one aspect of which is global climate theory and also theory of weather in general.

It comes down to faith at the end of the day. Advocates of science love to proclaim it doesn't because they inherently hate the connotations the word faith has, but it really does come down to that. YOU personally do not have time or resources to replicate the entire tapestry of a few hundred years of scientific endeavour to prove it all to your satisfaction, so you place faith in the teachers, the books, the scientific establishment.. there is simply no other practical way about it, and it is a reasonable solution. However, it does mean you always have to remain open to the possibility your faith is misguided and that it may be a castle build on sand.

No one wants to admit the possibility that their worldview is not concrete, whether they be a Christian fundamentalist or staunch advocate of science and its pillars of understanding. We do not like uncertainty. What amuses me is that this forum board is comprised of people who have had their worldviews obliterated and made anew, sometimes multiple times, through the use of psychedelics.. these people should be able to grasp this uncertainty more than the average person, but yet it doesn't always seem to work that way - an open truth facing mind psychedelics do not create.

But then on the other hand: do we europeans have to make huge economic sacrifices, for something that is with over 90% certainty going to fail anyway? ... While china, america and india do nothing to reduce their carbon emissions, because either they haven't committed themselves to it, or they have, but simply won't deliver on it.

This I agree with. The UK where I live has a negligible impact on global Co2 levels.. yet we are expected to curtail our economic, cultural and personal worlds? It is lunacy. The fact that this would even be contemplated and is not being resisted by our leaders tells me all I need to know - this is a political movement being orchestrated at the international level for nefarious ends, and has nothing to do with the climate, environment, or the well-being of the citizenry.

 

[Jees]

In general the climate debate has 2 faces imho:

1) the good intention, the wanting to care, the self reflection on consumption, I would call it the motivating part, the philosophical part. This is where Greta fits in. Everything in this part is or sounds noble and good. Nobody can really be against this. It is also a vessel for guild feelings, proud or other emotions. Here is also a notion to feel connected to others like a tribe factor.



2) The actual discussion of what actions should be taken if so. This should be a fair discussion meaning several points of view should be placed next to each other. The scientists are not in agreement with each other at all, their
different angles should be mutually respected and discussed. It is impossible to have an unanimous take on things of these matters as a natural given. The future economics and sociodynamics are at stake. The scientists that are in disagreement seem to me using other sets of data to come to different conclusions, it is an interesting case. The alarmists use generally shorter term data sets than the relativists.





What I always see in the climate discussions is that the "to be expected and natural contradictions and disagreements" of part 2) become mixed up with part 1)
A fair discussion of 2) becomes rapidly stopped with a kind of: "Sooo you are against 1) huh?"
This is creating a stalemate and opens a door to dogma.
The non emotional discussion of 2), the exchange of alleged facts, should imho not be spoiled with the emotional motivation of 1)

People also tend to believe easily it is only big oil sector playing a dirty game to win, but the so called "nice" guys play it just as dirty (lobbies aiming at large state investments?)
Michael Mann literally falsified scientifical data (this was brought to light in court!) to get to governments to do things with investments.

Even after Michael Mann lost that case he still uses that false graph, see last link of this post.
In the Netherlands it is discussed why the national weather services have changed data of the past to emulate a hotter climate today, doing so feeding climate panic:

(has English subs on my end)

I'm not saying there is no climate change, I think the climate has never ever been a constant to start with, nature does not do no-change, never and nowhere.
We should expect and accept change and not feel personally responsible as a first line response and not accept the guild move all too easily.
The discussion is not 'if' we contribute, but how much, and I've seen claims ranging from 99% human responsible to 3% responsible, go figure.

I know the reaction:
hey yes people do shit but lets return at point 1) okay, lets not forget it's all about 1)
Well this is exactly my point that no, we should not mix up 2) with 1)
I am against the attitude that we should just do 1) and forget all about 2) because there is disagreement and manipulation in 2). Let's dig trough the shit of 2) as inevitable and keep that darn 1) out of that.

is imho a good discussion, I'd like to think put them in a room until they agree.

About: "As long as we're not sure we should do something about CO2 and if failing or wrong we did our best." line of thought.
I'd rather spent the mega state money on fusion reaction efforts than on chasing CO2, I don't dig that CO2 is a direct and simple thermostat knob of earth.
My naive 2 cents.

 

[IIYI]

Nydex thank you for the topic. I have followed the manifestations of the Greta from some time. Good vibs to her. She will be great human being.

It does not matter that she is a child. We just came to Earth a few years before her. Nothing more. The fact that we have come to Earth earlier does not give us any more right.

Have you ever thought that kids are smarter than their parents? (not always, but this is the trend) You are smarter than your parents, your children are smarter than you yourself. "Children are teachers and we are students" Peter Deunov

The "child" takes the mother's DNA + the father's DNA. This means taking the experience of mother and father until the moment of conception. This genetic information immediately shot it in front of you, because the "kid" has your genetic information + your soulmate's genetic information.

You do not know your great-great-grand-grand-grandfather, but his beautiful nose is on your face. The same is done with some skill. There are things that no one has taught me, but I can do them as like I had practiced them years or from a lifetime. Most likely, some of my relatives have done them or worked them before generations.


The new generations will be smarter than us. More and more spiritual and energy children are born.

The way I see it, we are a part of Gaia, which is like a giant organism, except we forgot we are a part of it. Like cancer cells, reproducing at insane rates, at the cost of the host, so are we doing to our Mother.

If someone is calling the attention to the fact that our actions have impact on all other species, and that we must be mindful as a species on how we act, I think that's a wonderful thing. If someone is young and idealistic and fighting for what they think is right, I think that is a wonderful thing. Will people (companies, politicians, whatever) try to use her in order to get more power/fame/money? Sure, likely.. Does that take away from her message? Not IMO.

I think people are cynical because our society pushes us to be cynical, specially the news, which basically tell us every day, in all sorts of different ways, how we are meaningless and how everything is beyond our control. But I think that adopting that worldview is basically letting them win. Through every action we can express harmony with Gaia, the Universe or whatever you wanna call it, or we can express separation from it. It may seem like one person doesn't do much, but that is an incredibly important responsibility, to at least as one person, do what is right. And if we can spread the message and help others become conscious and change from being destructive to being constructive, even better, but at the very least we have to do our own part.

The fact that there are things bigger than us doesn't remove our personal responsibility. One day this earth will be gone, one day this universe will be gone, but this doesn't mean each second we are alive isn't incredibly important. We have to be grateful for being a part of this, even if it seems at times things are bad.

Lastly, as a father, I wish the planet would be at the level that my son deserves. And I'll do my part to get a little bit closer to that. But even if I wasn't a father, all children are our children, and we have to try and leave this planet (or our little corner of it) better than it was when we arrived.

I love your words Endlessness. Good vibs


Everyone who thinks that there is no Global Warming i will tells them that they are deaf and blind about the cries and pain of they are own mother and of himself.

In Bulgaria, in just a few years time has changed drastically. We almost have no winter, and before that there were epic winters. Snow and rains are almost out in winter and spring. Rains began in the summer and incredible hailstorms. Despite the rain the land is dry. Bees die because of spraying. The trees are cut and no one sows. I myself have worked in timber industry years ago. (I'm ashamed of what I've done and now I'm trying to at least redeem my guilt). Although there is a law in Bulgaria that obliges logging companies to sow trees, almost no company plant trees. But at the same time old forests are rotated ... they even found a way to cut trees from reserves and protected areas.

People can now grow olives here. I suppose that up to 3 years will be able to grow and oranges.

Because I grow vegetables, hemp and many other plants, I have to observe rain and weather forecasts. (this has become a necessary tool for me) I have been following the rains for several years and I have evidence that the amount of rain in the area I have drastically decreased.

Destroy and disappear species in Bulgaria. Without seeing him, I'm sure Amazon's disappearance of species is even faster and larger in size.

My neighbors throw their junk everywhere. I'm talking about plastic in front of their doors, I'm talking about any junk in front of their doors, and the basket is 3 meters away. They literally go wherever they go past the junk bin but prefer to get it on the road ahead of them (we) and do not care that it makes dirt. They do not care that their children are playing there. They do not care that the animals are eaten by these junk.

They spray with pesticides, fungicides and pesticides and get sick. Then they wonder what they get sick of. Half of the neighborhood is insulin. For cancer and other severe diseases not to mention.

I saw a goat as a grass herbicide sprayed.

The GMO industry is booming. I do not know about the other countries, but there has been a GMO institute and has always been used not only for animals. Vegetables themselves have neither the taste nor the kind of natural vegetables. Cows do not release the same amount, fat and tasty milk by eating GMOs. Not to mention that this affected bees as well. Bees make honey from GMO crops (rape, sunflower and others). Honey itself has a different color and taste. The bees themselves became more aggressive. I am the only beekeeper is in the village who walks and works with his bees without protective clothing. A lot of people in the village think me for crazy. Few people realize what I do.
In my yard (forest) you can hear wild birds and see wild animals where they are not anywhere else in the village. I just do not cut trees and stimulate the forest.

I know I can not be the salvation of the Planet alone. But at least I can be part of the solution. I prefer not to deconstruct, but to be a part of the construct. Even losing my life in trying to help the Nature, it is possible not to achieve anything, but at least I will know that I have tried. Helping nature reflects my life. I would give my life for this because I see meaning in this. The question is how many people have not tried?


I may be crazy, I may have overcome drugs. But when I am in Nature (whether in our garden a forest or somewhere else). I see amazing colors and vibrations. I literally see vibrations that are alive. Amazing things are happening like I have new better eyes. This new vision gives me joy and gives me a very crazy smile. (from ear to ear)

I am grateful to the Creator for having invented everything. Even if we do some fuck or stupidity ... The Creator has directed it to something good. This is one of the key mechanisms of the Universe. In the genes of all of us is the Creator.f

Interestingly, the Earth has warmed up and now it has begun to freeze the Sun. It's like pressing the button to make a buffer of time.

When there are climatic changes and problems, then there is the greatest growth of consciousness and evolution. The last grand evolution was thousands of years ago. The time has come for a new evolutionary leap.

That even the Earth will die will not mean the end for Us because We are multidimensional creatures. If we were only three dimensioned and fixed here I would be much worried.

As a matter of fact, I see a bright future for the Earth and the People. Now it's dark, but the darkest is before Sunrise. I believe the bloom of the World and the Consciousness has begun and that will turn the whole world 180 degrees or at least 90

I hope I did not insult anyone. These are just my thoughts. You have the right to think and do whatever you want.

Be Well, love others, take care of others, take care for Pachamama .

Peace

 

[DancinDog]

We are the problem and we can also be the solution.

The solutions will be costly. That should make the Capitalists happy, right? High costs mean potential profits. The green economy should be something we encourage instead of fear. How is it that we are afraid to invest in a good future?

I know that we're not out of oil yet, but we'll never run out of solar, wind, hydro, etc. How is investing in a clean future and leave a dirty past behind a difficult sell? Which fool do you want to be, the one fighting for the past or the one fighting for the future? I'm betting my $$$ on the future.

(And I'm planting some trees too. :thumb_up: )

peace,
DD

 

[dragonrider]

We are the problem and we can also be the solution.

The solutions will be costly. That should make the Capitalists happy, right? High costs mean potential profits. The green economy should be something we encourage instead of fear. How is it that we are afraid to invest in a good future?

I know that we're not out of oil yet, but we'll never run out of solar, wind, hydro, etc. How is investing in a clean future and leave a dirty past behind a difficult sell? Which fool do you want to be, the one fighting for the past or the one fighting for the future? I'm betting my $$$ on the future.

(And I'm planting some trees too. :thumb_up: )

peace,
DD

On the short term, reducing CO2 emissions will probably cost a lot more than most people think it will. You see that all over the world, countries fail to deliver on promisses they've made.

There is some hope however. In europe, more and more people are talking about imposing tarifs based on CO2 emissions and pollution.

If the EU, america and maybe some other countries can reach an agreement on that, then the paris treaty could work, because there will be no room anymore for cheating or bailing out.

It likely is too little too late.

But there is an upside to that as well.

Just as the lies of tobacco companies about smoking and cancer came out eventually, the lies of the petrochemical sector and all of the conservative media and politicians with them, most likely will be exposed some day.

And the whole world will know that donald trump, fox news, mitch mcconnel, etc, have willingly sacrificed millions of lives...literally millions of human lives.....only because it fitted their divisive politics.

Only because they liked to play divisive games on the people that trusted them.

Maybe that realisation will result in something positive. A lesson. For all of mankind. Who knows.

 

[dragonrider]

I don't understand where the hate against greta thunberg comes from. It is an almost obsessive , burning hate against basically a naive child.

I may not agree with her on some points (i don't see the point in complying with any kind of climate treaty if america already has withdrawn and china is going to cheat anyway like they do with all the other treaty's they've signed) but there realy is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to save the planet. Nothing.

How can people not realise how far astray their lives have gone, if they wake up one day, wishing the most vicious kinds of harm on a little girl? What kind of sad loser must you be to end up like that?

 

[TalkingGarden]

First endlessness's words about us all being part of the same system but we forgot are totally true and we ARE hurting the planet like a cancer. I don't think I could have put it any better than that!

I think a lot of you guys are focusing on the wrong thing! The way I see it there is good and bad in everything! So ok some of you think she is a puppet? Does that mean her message about the fact we are destroying the planet isn't true? Even if you believe we aren't having a huge impact on the planet warming we are doing COUNTLESS other things that ARE hurting everything. The fact that shamans left their own people to travel around giving people aya praying it will help us realize what we are doing says something right there. Being who WE are here at the nexus that fact should be close to your heart! Some say they are doing it for money and maybe some are but not all of them!

And seriously this is NOT a forum of stupid people!!! Like I said there is good and bad in everything...so what are you going to do choose to focus on the bad? if that's you so be it, me ill take the good and chuck out the garbage.

The idea of "well its happening everywhere what will my little imput do" that's garbage too! Even if its happening everywhere by you not contributing to fix it your just speeding up the destruction! Yes I admit will things turn around on the drop of a dime? NO WAY! BUT IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE! I find it amazing how parents want to give their children the best but so many only focus on money and stuff like that. Think you want whats good for your children right? what will they want the same thing and so on and so on. I say respect the wishes of the coming generations and help slow this down. If the planet is doomed anyway why not try to slow it and give as many generations as possible the chance to live here? Thank god I see ALOT of the younger generation waking up to this. They realize the mess we are handing them and they want to do something to fix it. That goes for the planet and our political system. They want to fix things all around and realize fixing 1 will help the other! Again changes wont happen over night but if enough of us start to change it and teach more of the children to change it even more when they grow up and they do the same MAYBE one day we will dig our selves out of this mess. Or at least slow it down so as many generations can enjoy this planet as possible!

Come on guys seriously focus on the GOOD in everything and believe that things will have a domino effect. If you say we are all connected if enough start to wake up and change it will effect the rest!....Or live your life focusing on the cynical things. The choice is yours but I bet that choice effects your life in ways you cant even imagine!

 

[dragonrider]

First endlessness's words about us all being part of the same system but we forgot are totally true and we ARE hurting the planet like a cancer.

The idea of "well its happening everywhere what will my little imput do" that's garbage too! Even if its happening everywhere by you not contributing to fix it your just speeding up the destruction! Yes I admit will things turn around on the drop of a dime? NO WAY! BUT IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE

There is also another way of looking at it.

This world is ruled by those who have money.

If countries that want to do something about climate change shrink their economy in favor of those that don't, the countries that believe they can take a shit on the rest of the world are gonna be ruling.

So first of all, i rather want all of us to go down the drain together instead of only the good, civilised people.
Secondly, if this world is going to be ruled by those who believe they can take a shit on the rest of the people, this place is going to turn into a hellhole. Worse even, then it would get otherwise. Like....imagine the nazi's would have won the war.

 

[TalkingGarden]

First endlessness's words about us all being part of the same system but we forgot are totally true and we ARE hurting the planet like a cancer.

The idea of "well its happening everywhere what will my little imput do" that's garbage too! Even if its happening everywhere by you not contributing to fix it your just speeding up the destruction! Yes I admit will things turn around on the drop of a dime? NO WAY! BUT IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE

There is also another way of looking at it.

This world is ruled by those who have money.

If countries that want to do something about climate change shrink their economy in favor of those that don't, the countries that believe they can take a shit on the rest of the world are gonna be ruling.

So first of all, i rather want all of us to go down the drain together instead of only the good, civilised people.
Secondly, if this world is going to be ruled by those who believe they can take a shit on the rest of the people, this place is going to turn into a hellhole. Worse even, then it would get otherwise. Like....imagine the nazi's would have won the war.

That is exactly why I am soooooo damn happy young people are waking up! And I pray they continue to. And Now I will do my part to help wake up more! When I was young me and well everyone I knew couldnt give a crap about this stuff....Now ALOT of the younger people genuinely do. RIGHT NOW this world seems to be going down a shit hole but in time these younger people will be the ones running their country's. It wont happen quick and not all these ruling country's that are craping on the world will change at once but like I said it has to start somewhere. If it doesn't start its a guarantee it will never happen. Hey maybe I am wrong and the world will go to shit quicker than we all think but ya know what knowing I can change and hoping others will to makes me feel good. And like I said ALOT more younger people are doing things just to help someone else or help the planet now than were 20 years ago! I hope it domino's.

 

[Nydex]

I am happy to see some open-mindedness in this thread. I have observed something recently when discussing Greta with a person I hold very dear to me.

It seems that there are two visible categories of people that don't feel very positive towards her. The first category is people that believe whatever she is saying is pointless because the giant countries like China and India will not change their ways, regardless of what she or any other prodigy has to say about it.

To a certain extent, this is correct. The countries that pollute this planet the most, and damage the vital ecosystems like oceans, rainforests etc, don't really care that future generations won't have a world to happily live in. The cogs will continue turning. A perfect representation of the age-old saying "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on."

The second major category of people seems to firmly believe Greta has a bunch of incredibly rich jews behind her, and that she's a puppet. Being so, mainstream pseudo-media uses her as a podium to boast their schemes and brainwash the people in some way.

We've observed both points in this thread, and each of them has valid arguments here and there. However, what remains the ultimate and indisputable truth is that we as a species are indeed destroying our environment.

We don't need to focus only on Greta to be able to realize that. I think the indigenous tribes coming out of their dense shrubbery to ask "the ones in power" to stop their madness is a sign all too clear that we're headed in the wrong direction.

Furthermore, polar bears dying of hunger because their hunting grounds (i.e. the artic ice coverage) are diminishing at startling rates, is yet another heartbreaking fact.

Then you have satellite pictures of the Amazon rainforest 20-30 years ago, and now.

If humanity is looking for signs that a shitstorm is coming, they will find plenty. Sadly, as it is, people prefer to argue over details, fight on the internet, post heartfelt tweets, and many other displays of often superficial and unimpactful affection that is unfortunately devoid of any actual change of lifestyle. However, deeds are what we really need.

Around the election period, I often hear people quote the infamous "If you don't vote, you have no right to complain!" thing. However, I find that incredibly sarcastic. Why? Because most people in the world do jack shit about the environment but click their tongues when watching the news about yet another ecological disaster, or complain that the air in their city is polluted, or that food and water are toxic and cause their children to get sick. This particular example of double standards does my head in.

So instead of people arguing over if Greta will make a change or not, I wish to see a generation of awakening. I wish to see the change occur in people instead of the contents of their social media accounts, their tattoos or whatever else.

Wanna make a change - eat less meat. Use environmentally-friendly means of transportation. Grow your own food. Recycle your waste. Be mindful of how you consume resources. If each and every one of us makes the change within themselves, in some 50 years we would be looking at a bright, green, and beautiful future for us and all the following generations.

We can make a change. It all starts with the little things. I know most people in this forum do whatever they can to secure a brighter future for everyone, and for that - I thank you from the bottom of my heart. We, among many others, are part of the conscious revolution that will turn the world green once again.

Love you all.

 

[dragonrider]

Oh, i don't feel negatively towards her at all. Actually, i think i share many of her feelings.

It is just that i have lost some faith in humanity. Not all faith. But...yeah, if people start talking about jewish conspiracies i can't help thinking that history has shown there is one cure for such beliefs and it's called karma.

 

[ozzoes]

Yet seeing how we are all one, everything is connected and thereby alive... one can not really separate the planet from himself right?

So when it's ineffable I die, lose my form and move on... change, transition..

Isn't it strange to have resistance against the verry same process happening to our planet?
The thing has been around for way longer then us, I don't think we are destroying it, we are setting it up for a new chapter in the book of life. Rendering it inhospitable to our own form of life only opens the doors for new novel forms to emerge, thrive and move on once again.

There are more species that have come and gone then that are still around...

The entire ordeal sounds to me like a human endeavour; thoughts and opinions with no roots in reality.

But maybe I'm weird.

 

[Nydex]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think I agree with it too much. Because what you are effectively saying is that it's okay to ignore the situation we've created, and it's fine to let the planet suffer and exterminate us as the harmful parasite we are.

Yes, you will die someday and it's pointless to resist that process because it's natural. What is not natural however is the means by which we are destroying life on this planet. Your death can't be avoided, but the death of hundreds of thousands of beautiful plant and animal species that have fallen victim to our unsustainable ways can be avoided. And it should.

I can discuss it a lot, but I will never agree that it's okay to just shrug it off and continue living in such a toxic, harmful way, whilst ignoring our responsibility as the supposedly most intelligent species on this planet. We are responsible to consume resources with moderation and to take care of our planetary home. But it seems like most of the world has turned their back to this particular responsibility. How mad is it that something like uniformitarianism exists?