How long can you safely leave the basified solution out?

[The_Curious_One]

This may seem like a strange question, but since my first few extractions and DMT trips, I haven't really continued to make or use the elf spice again. I am honestly a little scared of the true power this substance contains.

However, the urge for me to continue my exploration to find the truth of what DMT really is and what that place is that it sends you to, has now returned. I want delve further into the depths of my own consciousness to find some meaning for all this.

Before I stopped making / using DMT, I still had 1 last extraction to do. I had basified the solution and turned it black with the bark powder and did 2 pulls already, then I just kinda stopped and left it alone for a couple months. So now my wine jug with the black solution (and a very thin layer of VM&P Naphtha remaining on top) has been sitting out in my kitchen for several weeks.

My question is, is that black solution still safe to continue doing another pull or 2? Its been sitting so long that the clear layer of Naphtha isn't quite so clear anymore, it looks more like a translucent brownish color on top of the black solution. I want to continue doing extractions, but I don't want to waste whats left in that wine jug unless its just totally unsafe to continue doing more pulls from that batch.

 

[Super Radical]

I've left one out for 2 months before, which was a bad idea anyway because the jar can break.
I still did a pull from it but it was mostly the yellow oil spice and a few very small off white crystals.
If your naptha is brown it sounds like there's some bark in it and possibly lye which is not good to smoke.
If it's brown I'd toss it, if it's yellow I'd try a pull and maybe re-x it for safety.

 

[The_Curious_One]

Well the Naphtha that's on top of the black solution is just the small thin layer that I couldn't pull out with my turkey baster without sucking up some black liquid with it when I did my last pull a couple months ago...

So that thin layer has just been sitting on top of the blackness for a while now. As for there being bark in my Naphtha... I don't really follow what you're getting at since of course there's bark powder in the entire jug WITH the remaining Naphtha. It's not like I pulled that thin layer out into a separate container and accidentally got some black stuff too... Its all still together.

As for the color, the layer of Naphtha is sooo thin that its hard to accurately describe the color... I said brown but really it could be construed as yellow too, its just so thin that its hard to say.

 

[Ice House]

That basified solution is good indefinately IMO. The solvent in there will continue to darken over time as it absorbs more plant dyes and oils and of course spice. You have only done two pulls off of it so, there should be more spice in there.

I have done successful pulls on jars that I had sitting around for over a year.

Keep in mind the longer it sits the more extra kibbles and bits you are gonna pull so you will need to do a good re-X or two on the stuff in the end.

I imagine there comes a point when its been stored too long but IMO you are mostlikely a couple of years away from that yet.

Good Luck

IH

 

[Super Radical]

Well the Naphtha that's on top of the black solution is just the small thin layer that I couldn't pull out with my turkey baster without sucking up some black liquid with it when I did my last pull a couple months ago...

So that thin layer has just been sitting on top of the blackness for a while now. As for there being bark in my Naphtha... I don't really follow what you're getting at since of course there's bark powder in the entire jug WITH the remaining Naphtha. It's not like I pulled that thin layer out into a separate container and accidentally got some black stuff too... Its all still together.

As for the color, the layer of Naphtha is sooo thin that its hard to accurately describe the color... I said brown but really it could be construed as yellow too, its just so thin that its hard to say.

Gotcha, i thought you were saying your naphtha had turned from yellow to obviously brown.
You could try adding more naphtha and doing another pull and see what comes of it.

 

[The_Curious_One]

How much of a risk is there for the jug breaking if I try more extractions? I didn't really think about the glass weakening over time, but it does make sense considering the corrosive properties of lye.

I use a little over 100 grams of lye with warm or slightly hot tap water for my extractions, and after adding the lye it of course gets the glass even hotter... so will it still be safe to use the same wine jug?

 

[Super Radical]

How much of a risk is there for the jug breaking if I try more extractions? I didn't really think about the glass weakening over time, but it does make sense considering the corrosive properties of lye.

I use a little over 100 grams of lye with warm or slightly hot tap water for my extractions, and after adding the lye it of course gets the glass even hotter... so will it still be safe to use the same wine jug?

I don't see why you would need to switch jars now.
I've just heard of people having their jars explode because of corrosion.
I leave mine in another container just in case that happens, but if your careful with it, it should be fine for a few more pulls.
I don't know about wine jugs though, I use mason jars because they're made for pickling and storing. Sometimes a vacuum can form in the jar and that could possibly weaken it if you don't allow some give like the the top of a canning jar can.

The solution itself is probably totally fine, if anything the extra time may help the spice get released.

 

[Ice House]

I Have used wine jugs before and never had problem with them breaking. They are just a pain in the ass to use because of the small hole you gotta work with. I know from experience that Ball and Mason jars can be used for many extractions for many years without incident. Is that safe ??

I have NEVER heard of them exploding. Just dont put solvent in it and a lid on it til it cools off.

 

[The_Curious_One]

I Have used wine jugs before and never had problem with them breaking. They are just a pain in the ass to use because of the small hole you gotta work with. I know from experience that Ball and Mason jars can be used for many extractions for many years without incident. Is that safe ??

I have NEVER heard of them exploding. Just dont put solvent in it and a lid on it til it cools off.

Hmmm I have always capped my wine jug after adding the Naphtha to the black solution. I've read that you can pull more of the spice if the liquid / container is hot or warm than you can cold, so I usually don't waste any time adding the Naphtha to the bark / lye / water.

I've never had a problem with that method before and I've never noticed any pressure building up, but maybe I was just getting lucky...?

 

[Super Radical]

I've noticed a slight vacuum can form inside the mason jars.
IME I've seen the tops pop down after sitting a while.

I know it's wikipedia, but it says this on the lye page "Glass should never be used for storage as lye will slowly eat away at this material".

 

[Digi123]

I've noticed a slight vacuum can form inside the mason jars.
IME I've seen the tops pop down after sitting a while.

I know it's wikipedia, but it says this on the lye page "Glass should never be used for storage as lye will slowly eat away at this material".

Yea I think it does etch away at it, would take quite a long time at these concentrations though. Seen a video of a guy melting glass with NaOH but that was lots of large chunks of pure NaOH melted with heat, no water added. Try to get a hold of HDPE containers. (plastic with the number 2 on it, milk jugs are made of it but they're thin so I don't like 'em).

 

[TimeMonk]

I definitely suggest HDPE 2 5 gallon buckets. Perhaps 1 gal if you prefer. They are designed for resistance to chemicals. I use 5 gal and a stainless steel ladle that I dip in strait and then let the naphtha run into it. This way does get a little bit of the base solution but with either sep funnel or mason jar pours its not really a big deal.
I also do long extracts with bulk and have had 1 5gal extraction take over 6 months.
I dont use any glass anything cept mason jars.
Brewery stores offer awesome things like 24 inch hdpe spoons and such.

 

[DoctorMantus]

I definitely suggest HDPE 2 5 gallon buckets. Perhaps 1 gal if you prefer. They are designed for resistance to chemicals. I use 5 gal and a stainless steel ladle that I dip in strait and then let the naphtha run into it. This way does get a little bit of the base solution but with either sep funnel or mason jar pours its not really a big deal.
I also do long extracts with bulk and have had 1 5gal extraction take over 6 months.
I dont use any glass anything cept mason jars.
Brewery stores offer awesome things like 24 inch hdpe spoons and such.

If you are doing pulls out of just liquid in the end, and no bark, i found siphoning to be the best method for separation IMO.

 

[The_Curious_One]

Ok so I decided to go ahead and continue with more extractions, and since I still had a whole wine jug full of the black stuff (and a very thin layer of dark naphtha on top) I decided to just do 1 final pull on that batch before I start a new extraction.

I added 100 ML of Naphtha to my wine jug and after rolling it around on the carpet for about 5 minutes or so, I let the liquid settle and separate like I always do.

However this time I got slightly different results than my previous extractions which I'm quite sure is due to how long the black solution remained sitting. After the Naphtha separated, it actually formed 3 layers in the wine jug. The top layer is the thin layer of dark Naphtha that remained in the jug for 2 months because it was so thin that I couldn't siphon it without getting some blackness with it. Under that dark Naphtha layer is another layer of lighter colored (almost normal looking) Naphtha that I just added today. And of course under that layer is the black base solution.

So basically I have the layer of clear(ish) Naphtha sandwiched in between the old dark Naphtha on top and the blackness on bottom. This is making it very difficult to siphon the clear layer. My question is: Is the dark Naphtha something that I should avoid siphoning up? I predict it would most likely yield some yellow or maybe even brown crystals. I can't imagine getting anything white or even light yellow out of Naphtha that dark in color.

Should I just dump the jug and start a fresh extraction from scratch?

(Update) - I just tried again to siphon out only the middle layer, but apparently that layer is much darker than it looks on the outside. Either that or I just can't get that middle layer without it mixing with the top darker layer turning it all brownish. I can't really tell where the tip of my turkey baster is in the Naphtha from the outside of the wine jug like I could before with clear Naphtha on previous extractions. Also because the liquid is so dark as it fills the turkey baster, its hard to tell when a little black base solution gets sucked up with it. Clear Naphtha made it very easy to tell when anything black would get sucked into the baster so I would know to squeeze a little out until the black stuff went back in the jug. There's really no way for me to be sure I'm not siphoning some base solution if the Naphtha I'm trying to siphon is this dark brownish.

 

[Ice House]

I would siphon everything out that you believe dmt containing Naphtha and it get it into a glass container where you can get a better look at exactly what you have. I would next do a couple of easy tests to help figure that out. For example warm it up a bit and stir it up a bit. Is the dark miscible with the light? Is there particulants in either? Or can you seperate thm further. first I would get what you think is dmt containing Naphtha out of the jug and into a container you can work with easily.

 

[The_Curious_One]

Now that the newer Naphtha has been sitting for a few hours, the layers seemed to have changed. Now the top layer isn't near as thin as it was, now it takes up more than the other Naphtha layer in the middle does. Also both layers now seem equally dark brownish... Here is a pic I just took and uploaded:

This is somewhat unexpected and I'm tempted to just dump the jug and start fresh. =/

 

[The_Curious_One]

Just siphoned out 100 ML of Naphtha which is equal to what I added today, so there's still probably about 30ish ML left in the jug from the amount that was left in there for a couple months.

It turned out much much darker than I even anticipated. I was very careful to follow the exact same technique I have used in previous extractions by only sticking the very very tip of the baster in the top the liquid the let go of the already lightly squeezed baster as slow as possible to prevent the black layer from getting siphoned too. So I am fairly certain I didn't get any base solution, but the Naphtha just turned THAT dark its hard to tell for sure even though I was extra careful.

I took Ice House's suggestion and put it into a smaller container first instead of my glass baking dish. I put it into a fairly thin measuring beaker looking thing and so far it doesn't look like there are any layers separating. It's all just dark-ass Naphtha. Here's a pic of what I siphoned.

You can't really tell from the pic, but the small glass of Naphtha is actually a little lighter more brownish than the slightly darker and more black base solution, but it's still dark as hell as you can see.

 

[Super Radical]

Personally I wouldn't keep it.
I couldn't imagine any nice clean dmt precipitating from that.
But you say its not actually as dark as the picture looks, so maybe you can freeze precipitate it anyway and definitely do a re-x if there is anything to re-x.

 

[The_Curious_One]

After pouring the dark Naphtha into my glass baking dish it actually seemed to not be as dark as it appeared in the thin glass. It looks much more brownish-orangeish-yellowish now than it did before. I've got the 100 ML sitting in the baking dish with a small fan blowing on it next to my open patio door with the screen on. Here's a pic:

The whiteness you see towards the left side of the dish is just the light-play against the ripples caused by the fan blowing on it. What do you guys think, will this yield some smokable DMT crystals? I don't mind if they're not pure white like my previous extractions. I'd settle for yellow or even orangish.

 

[Tona]

Hello,

If I were SWIM I wouldnt throw away anything. The DMT is most likely still in. Why dont you wash your solvent with water ? Just mix them in jar and shake vigorously. Some of that junk should transfer into water, leaving DMT behind (adding heat should help pull more junk - be careful with heating highly flammable solvent though, use water bath). You can do this several times. Other possibility is to salt with vinegar. Just add some vinegar, than drain/pour off and than basify the vinegar again with sodium carbonate or lime. Let it dry completly and than pull with anhydrous IPA, ethanol or acetone. Third option is freeze precipation (read wiki for info), but I never performed it on such dirty solvent. I cant see why it wouldnt work, but I am not sure. I would do 3x water wash (defat) and than freeze precipation.