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how much spice do you need to have a breakthrough?

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skinwalker

skinwalker

Rising Star
lately i'm not sure if i've developed DMT tolerance or what is going on. About once a week now i smoke up and i've only had one true break through. We used a vaporizer at the time but since that broke (due to melted dmt seeping into the electrical conduits) i'm now using just a glass pipe. My two main questoins are i see it as a total WASTE to even bother smoking this if your not planning to breakthrough so i need help with two things.

I weight about 170 pounds, athletic and healthy smoke about once a week. I've been smoking 60mg and only get mild visuals and a dream like trace state lately but absolutely NOTHING like when i had my breakthrough and interacted with aliens, had ego death ect... How much does it take for the majority of you to have a breakthrough? Should i smoke 100mg next? I think my one breakthrough i did have a massive dose packed in the vaporizer if i remember correctly and it only took ONE HIT!!! Now i'm am puffing 3-4 hits holdin gmy breath for 20=30 seconds and just get body buzzes or the beginnings of somthing that never goes deeper.

My second question is i know NOT to burn dmt and when i load the 60mg in my glass oil pipe i hold the flame about a inch to two inches away and wait for a white cloud of smoke to circle around in the bowl then i inhale, hold in for 20=30 seconds and try lighting the bowl again to produce another white cloud.

Am i doing something wrong here? Should i wait ALOT longer and let a massive cloud swirl around before inhaling? When i get the first cloud i immediatly inhale thinking i will be wasting the dmt as i see it escaping trhough the top of the bowl's hole. the vaporizer was nice when it worked because i could keep returning to it and resmoking it without having to fck around with a lighter, the glass pipe feels like i get one good shot to inhale and after that it takes a while.

what bothers me more is that one of my friends smoked the same pipe with NOTHING IN IT BUT RESIDE and had a massive breakthrough... I'm really confused here... he is also a ex meth addict (I"M NOT!!) so he claims he's an expert at these things but shockingly it seems like my virgin lungs can handle DMT better than all of my friends.... and i feel like i've grown tolerant of it. Please help im sick of extracting and wasting money and reading other stories and never being able to revisit the place i once was a month ago to try to get some more answers.
 
also i tried melatonin an hour before smoking last time and noticed an extremely pleasent experience with DMT like a nice vivid dream but definatly no shocking breakthrough... should i be taking a potentiator with it before smoking? IF so what? I've taken oral dmt at 100mg and also had minimal results (i just want to smoke from now on) . I have caapi and a few other things in my bag of tricks but unsure what to use and when..
 
I guess you have trouble with your smoking method.. I cant see anybody needing more than 50mg, and thats already more than enough if you get your technique down..

With a bong sandwhiched between leaves, I needed around 50mg for breakthrough. With the vaporgenie I need quite less, maybe around 25-40mg..
 
skinwalker said:
what bothers me more is that one of my friends smoked the same pipe with NOTHING IN IT BUT RESIDE and had a massive breakthrough... I'm really confused here... he is also a ex meth addict (I"M NOT!!) so he claims he's an expert at these things but shockingly it seems like my virgin lungs can handle DMT better than all of my friends..
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sounds like your not getting all of your dose if your friend was able to breakthrough on just residue...
 
The Strassman study used IV doses of 0.4mg/kg DMT fumarate and in hindsight he considered that dose to be too high. Assuming the higher potency of freebase is offset by less efficient methods of administration, let’s say 0.4mg/kg freebase is a reasonable breakthrough dose.

At 170 lb, that means a good breakthrough dose would be about 31mg. If you’re using much more than that, then there’s probably something wrong with your technique and/or smoking device.
 
Swim had problems breaking through for a while. What I've come to learn is it isn't about how much its about how you go about it. Time it takes from first hit to finishing. Length you hold each hit in. And the type of pipe/heat. I've been able to breakthrough much more consistently since I started infusing onto leaf. It seams you don't have to worry as much about burning your dmt. You just smoke it like weed. Check out changa on the main forum page.
 
hyperspacing said:
Swim had problems breaking through for a while. What I've come to learn is it isn't about how much its about how you go about it. Time it takes from first hit to finishing. Length you hold each hit in...
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Yes. The faster you take your dose, the more likely you are to break through on a smaller amount. I always try to get my full dose in one quick inhalation – with the GVG it’s easy to inhale a 25-30mg dose in about 10 seconds. The effect is nothing like taking the same size dose in 3 or 4 leisurely inhalations.
 
One upon a time I had the same problem you are having.

Me says- get rid of the meth pipe. Meth pipes are for meth.

make some changa. Changa makes the whole vaporization process simple. Once you break through on that you'll never go back.

Until you get some changa made, I would layer it between some parsley. I did that for a year before I switched over to changa.

Take a bong, load up a small ammount of parsley, layer in about 35 mg of your spice, place a teeny weeny bit of parsley on top of that. Light it up by holding the flame above the bowl and just start to heat it up for a second and toke. Slowly lower the flame onto your mix, once its lit remove the flame. Toke it down like its the last breath you'll ever take. Hold it. Dont let it out.

Thats it.

Once I switched to the bong and changa, I can break through with 99.9% success.

I can break through with as little as 20mg or as much as 50mg.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

Get rid of the Meth pipe.
 
The Strassman dosage calculations are quoted a lot around here - but try and remember that this applies to IV administration (a very different animal). Regardless of weight, I also think that 50mgs is likely sufficient for almost anyone, assuming their vaporizing technique is sound.

I also HIGHLY recommend the glass vapor genie. And if you are looking to supplement, sublingual harmala extracts are a much more effective choice than melatonin.
 
sorry i'm going to be lazy for a sec but where would i go about buying "sublingual harmala extracts"? I currently have the caapi leaves and used that for my oral administration and i believe we are discussing the same extract. Would i simply take this 30 minutes prior to smoking at 100mg along with a acidic drink and vitamin c?

also regarding the glass vapor genie... it is expensive (but so is making TONS of dmt because i waste all of mine. Can i get away with a regular vapor genie for like 45bucks or do you recommend coughing up the $100 and buying the glass? is thre really a dfference?

also i've looked up "changa" in the past and i'm must be confused because it looks like the tek to make change is more time consuming and difficult than making dmt!! Perhaps please steer me to a very simple "dummy" tech or proper discussion i should be educating myself on.

btw THANKs guys, i miss talking to ...whatever the hell spoke to me when i first broke though (i must have loaded 100mg + into the vaporizer....)
 
To make Changa:
_Dissolve your determinate amount of spice in a solvent (ex pure ethanol)
-Add determanate amount of caapi leaves (or extract, you can make 10X caapi leaves easily)
-Stir well and let the solvent evaporate.
Once dry it shouldn't smelll any solvent anymore.
You can use it in your vaporization device.
 
rOm said:
To make Changa:
_Dissolve your determinate amount of spice in a solvent (ex pure ethanol)
-Add determanate amount of caapi leaves (or extract, you can make 10X caapi leaves easily)
-Stir well and let the solvent evaporate.
Once dry it shouldn't smelll any solvent anymore.
You can use it in your vaporization device.
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what is "ethanol" (i know stupid questoin #1) and again i'm lazy today have just survived a tornado last night and picking up pieces of my destroyed shed

I have 200mg harmaline freebase is this caapi or where do i buy caapi leaves at?

how much solvent to leaves ratio? how long to stir for?

I"M SUPER EXCITED AND REALLY APPRECIATE THE ADVICE!
 
skinwalker said:
sorry i'm going to be lazy for a sec but where would i go about buying "sublingual harmala extracts"? I currently have the caapi leaves and used that for my oral administration and i believe we are discussing the same extract. Would i simply take this 30 minutes prior to smoking at 100mg along with a acidic drink and vitamin c?

also regarding the glass vapor genie... it is expensive (but so is making TONS of dmt because i waste all of mine. Can i get away with a regular vapor genie for like 45bucks or do you recommend coughing up the $100 and buying the glass? is thre really a dfference?

also i've looked up "changa" in the past and i'm must be confused because it looks like the tek to make change is more time consuming and difficult than making dmt!! Perhaps please steer me to a very simple "dummy" tech or proper discussion i should be educating myself on.

btw THANKs guys, i miss talking to ...whatever the hell spoke to me when i first broke though (i must have loaded 100mg + into the vaporizer....)
Click to expand...

Look in the Suppliers forum for harmala extracts. Caapi leaves wont cut it. The harmala extract are placed under the tounge for 15min or so, then the spice is vaped.

A few members here have used both VG and GVG, and the general feeling is that the GVG could could be better. This is not to say that the classic one isnt, it all really depends on how much you want to spend.

Take a read through the Changa forum for all info needed about changa.

Enjoy:)

EDIT:
Wow, you are lazy tonight:lol:
Thoroughly dissolve the freebase DMT (use about 40ml of solvent per gram of DMT)in the warm solvent of choice. You want to use a dish with a width that will allow your leaf to sit between 5-10mm high. Add the leaf to the DMT saturated solvent and swirl it around so all the leaf is spread evenly on the bottom of your dish. If needed, a little more solvent can be added so that the leaf is well covered. Place the dish somewhere where it will stay undisturbed for several days. Once completely dry, the leaf can be weighed. It should be heavier by the amount of freebase DMT that it is enhanced with.
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"Wow, you are lazy tonight "

I really really am tonight i admit it, and surprised no one has called me out on it yet. This really is a constructive forum compared to most on the net. Its a big circle and i will help other lazyites in the future as my ignorant self learns more lol
 
I've had great success with heptane (bestine).

Put ur dmt into a shot glass and place glass in a heated bath.
Add enough heptane until all dmt is dissolved.
Add desired leaf/herbs and stir.
set the glass about 5 feet from a fan on low.
Usually only takes an hour or 2 but depends on your amount of solvent/leaf
Make sure u can't smell ANY solvent

And you can smoke it out of a normal cannabis pipe. Remember big hits and hold em in!
 
Q1: How deeply are you taking your hits in? I use a large pyrex bubbler as a vaporizing pipe (drop spice down the stem and heat the glass until a nice white vapor begins to swirl), then I take in all the vapor quickly and inhale deeply to fill my lungs with fresh air and then hold that in until no vapor is released on an exhale (~15 sec). As I hold it in the next hit is filling the pipe and a take a second and sometimes a third (I basically smoke it until I can no longer understand what the pipe is anymore). I see a lot of people taking shallow hits and have mundane effects while those who take very deep hits seem to talk about more powerful effects.

Q2A: Are you focusing too hard on some intention? I find having intentions throughout the peak (ie constantly thinking about something, anything, during the trip) tends to produce nothing more than a "high" rather than an inner breakthrough.
Q2B: Have you tried combining spice with a meditation technique of some kind or another? I find that clearing my mind by focusing on my breathing while imaging white light is filling my being on each inhale and black smoke (negativity) is being released upon each exhale, this gives me the strongest experiences.

My general procedure is to focus on a goal prior to use, begin mind clearing meditations, take my dose, and continue the clearing meditation. The goal in mind doesn't always take place but occasionally it does. IMO, you experience what you need to when you need to; if your goal matches what most needs to be experienced than that is what will be experienced. One of my biggest problems with breaking through is losing my meditative focus from the shock of the rush from smoking dmt. Excessive inner dialogue prevents my breakthrough to witness the veil.

Lately I have been insufflating dmt-fumarate. I find that the gradual come-up is easier to ride out and easier to maintain a state of mediation through the peak. I know when a powerful experience is going to happen when I find it unbearable to keep my eyes open a second longer or my eyes just shut automatically, for me this is when the veil begins to come into view. For me, finding the veil is the easy part, I have a problem fully stepping through. It generally feels like I am peering in to this realm (seeing critters, beings, and building) but I am not within this realm (or am I? I can't see someone else's experience so I don't really know where I am in relation the this world and the next). I have had 1 contact (my first breakthrough) where I felt between worlds (within a tunnel) and kokopelli came to me with a "gift". Since then I can peer in, and things observe me as I observe them but I get no further contacts (possibly because I accepted what was offered already). Continued visits help add layers of understanding to what has already been put into place but I can't seem to obtain the goal of contact once again (basically I am looking for reassurance that what I believe I obtained is correct, I assume if it were not I would have been corrected by now)... A goal isn't a requirement, very often I will take my dose and just passively observe what takes place but I still need mediation to go as far I can (my first breakthrough came this way but I had no thoughts because I didn't know what to expect, later I had problems like you describe until adding meditation to the experience). I also find mediation tends to increase the duration of the experience by ~50% (out of curiosity I do time my trips since a second and an eternity are one in the same in spiceland, and I like to know how long I was gone). Before I decided to use dmt as a tool for mediation the smoked experience would last about 15-20min in total; with meditation the average is 30min. With insufflating dmt-fumarate (100-150mg at a time) the average duration without meditation is about 50min while with meditation the average is ~1.25hrs, IME.

PS: I don't like using the work breakthrough because it seems like a very subjective word and I can't tell if what I have seen counts as a breakthrough or not... Can some point me to a resource on this site for a definition or perhaps y'all have some thoughts? I assume contact constitutes a breakthrough? Does seeing the veil count? How about seeing things through the veil? What about when things appears to have physically changed in this reality?
 
contact with a "alien" or spiritual presence again is what i am seeking. I want to continue the dialoge that took place when i broke through, and i have never ever been able to achieve that point again... Thats why i'm afraid i'm trying too hard or not focused or somehow DMT tolerant.

also i'm lighting the glass pipe watching the white cloud form, immediate inhale it all, and put it down deep and hold my breath for 30 seconds, then exhale... and little to nothing. should continue inhaling AFTER the cloud dissapears? like inhale for 15-20 seconds even if the bowl looks completely clear? then while inhaling keep lighting the bowl to produce another cloud and inhale that one after holding breath for 30 seconds? I'm definatly doing something wrong and wasting ALOT of spice or i'm tolerant, or the dmt aliens/elves/angels dont want to show me anymore at this point in time for whatever reason (my fear)
 
What kind of oil pipe are you using, skinwalker, and what kind of lighter? In my experience, a jet lighter is an ABSOLUTE necessity with an oiler; and while I've had spectacular results with a bong and hash oil bulb attachment, it's a tricky and idiosyncratic method. If you're talking about a glass rose or something, those are strictly for wack. Get a GVG and I'll look forward to reading your upcoming breakthrough report.

Now, if I might offer up a bit of slightly more esoteric advice, I would say try and ease up on your expectations. What you are seeking, you likely won't get. What you do, though, may very well be equally as stupefying or more so. For me, EVERYTIME I break through (and I have quite a bit), I'm pounded by the realization that it isn't at all what I'd thought it was or had remembered it to be. Surrender to whatever it is you become within that moment, and let it lead where it leads. The more malleable you are, the deeper you'll go. This game is all about freeing your mind and allowing in the impossible.

Just my $0.02.
 
"Surrender to whatever it is you become within that moment"

I do that entirely, because i've been there before. i was so messed up i really thought i had died and i had NO CLUE how i got to this state. I was so lost i didnt even know i had smoked DMT!! I then had a conversation (ONE WAY) with some entity who was showing me words and was telling me to pay attention (which at that time i couldnt). I've since quit smoking (on its advice) and took up yoga (also on its advice) yet had ZERO recurring contact or anything even remotely as fantastical as that night. Now i just get fun vivid dreams that i feel in control of... even when i feel an outside influence i somehow regain control (i know i know... your supposed to give up all control... to achieve higher states) keep in mind the more control you give up the more suspectible you are to possession and other NEGATIVE influences. HOWEVER when i had my experience i had literally ZERO control over my thoughts or body other than being shocked as hell and distracted.

anyhow feel like i'm "chasing the dragon ever since" and all my friends are having all these powerful experiences without putting in anywhere near the work i have. Feel defeated lately. I really cant see myself spending $100.00 on GVG aka drug paraphanalia (spelling sorry).. i might cough up $50 for the traditional VP if you guys honestly think it will be a massive step up from the glass meth pipe garbage i'm forced to smoke from now (my vaporizer machine is broken due to dripping dmt on the electrical components)
 
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