How often to trip?

[ragabr]

This statement is poignant enough on its own and perhaps partially the point I was trying to justify: entheogens will never lead to enlightenment alone.

Just as enlightenment isn't the point of jhana meditation, I don't think it's the point of entheogenic exploration. Most people have unclear, contradictory and harmful ideas of what enlightenment means. They can make a useful adjunct to insight practice, but I think you're making the assumption that even seekers look for the same thing when engaging entheogens as a spiritual practice.

I am not sure about yourself, but there always seems to be a recognizable breakdown of the "classic" psychedelic trip that are recognizable to me in my own trips. That breaking down, and building back up feeling.

No, I don't believe in the "classic" psychedelic trip.

However, you say your relationship is different to DMT than changa, caapi, LSD etc. Do you have other organic similar relationships to these substances as DMT?

SWIM does have relationships with these substances, though she reports not having the stamina to engage with Mr. L as often as she would like to. She notes that your language continues to cast these teachers as substances instead of distinct characters with intentions and personalities of their own.

I could imagine going into a trip thinking "time hang out, learn and have fun with my friend DMT". But I suppose you could factor in a relationship factor to anything as our waking consciousness itself is a relationship to the world and the things around us.

You could, but is it useful?

Once you have some more experience, you may find the ability to distinguish journeys that only involve having a tryptamine drug in your system and those which and those which involve the spirit of hyperspace. SWIM says the difference has a clarity as night does from day.

I'm not trying to convince you. We obviously have some very different ontologies in action here, and I can completely accept that. The only qualm I have comes from your attempting to reason out some sort of universal approach to psychedelics in general and the DMT experience in particular. It assumes too much that completely flies in the face of my own and SWIM's sensory experiences.

Be cool, be well.

 

[Caen]

As in taking the spice as a cure, taken when feeling off, to me sounds like somewhat risk involving action. The distinction in taking medicine as a cure in general is that if you take the cure while under the influence of discomfort, the medicine works as a method to derail the discomfort ones going through. By modern western standards, some may call that as being cured, but does it really cure as in its definition? With spice there are more gray windows since it is not something that cures the tissue of the body, but because it spearheads change from the psyche that might evolve into a healing process.

Sorry for side tracking. Anyways how often was the question.

My answer to that is as often as you are comfortable with. The key here is to stay true to what you are feeling, wither it be positive nor negative. Let what passes pass, and keep what you want. You alone are the best judge for what is best for yourself. I don't think anyone can make that choice, "x times a week" for you personally, since there are too many unique variables to consider to make a precision decision. From what I understand, I have not heard of life endangering cases due to frequent usage. Although I have heard of traumatic trips so one should consider that as a factor.

Safe journeys and enjoy.

 

[KwisatzHaderach]

I think you're making the assumption that even seekers look for the same thing when engaging entheogens as a spiritual practice.

By my statement I suppose I did make that assumption, but I didn't mean to. But I think this again comes back to intent, the purpose behind doing something. And just as jhana meditation itself doesn't lead to enlightenment (read, understanding/unconditional love), it does lead toward the path with proper use and integration. Also, I wasn't trying to simplify or typecast such other teachers...but ask if you felt if you had a similar symbiotic relationship to them as the spice.

(Aside: I say substances because I have a science background and can't help myself. Although, I regard "substance" as being the teacher in physical form and "teacher" when referring to the spirits/experiences/wisdom which guide the experience; and I put many slashes because as you said, all teachers teach in different ways. Sometimes I intermix them, but I regard them the same.)

And last thing I did want to vouch for:

you may find the ability to distinguish journeys that only involve having a tryptamine drug in your system and those which and those which involve the spirit of hyperspace.

I have had hyperspace experience on high doses of mushrooms but nothing even resembling hyperspace (or the "classic" psychedelic experience, though I know you don't believe in it) on say, DXM. And those mushroom experiences were before I had a true spice induced hyperspace experience. I think this may be one of the main reasons I believe in the "classic" psychedelic experience because two different teachers in two completely different mindsets (many years between) gave me very similar experiences, different but similar.

But you're right, we have gone quite far off subject I suppose. I think like all of us, we just want to know. And in the end, it's the question that drives us. I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion and hope to meet again throughout the nexus.

It's just hard because it's typing, but I feel like if we talked in person this would sound more reasonable and less aggressive.

thankyou

 

[KwisatzHaderach]

As in taking the spice as a cure, taken when feeling off, to me sounds like somewhat risk involving action. The distinction in taking medicine as a cure in general is that if you take the cure while under the influence of discomfort, the meds taking action works as a method to derail the discomfort ones going through. By modern western standards, some may call that as being cured, but the question in this case would be, does it really cure as in its definition? With spice there are more gray windows since it not something that cures the tissue of the body, but because it spearheads change from the psyche then might evolve into a healing process.

lol you nexians are very particular about word choice on this forum. Not all illnesses are physical, some illnesses are mental. And as a cure, I mean a cure to the obsessive compulsive culture that gets feed you everyday through TV, advertisements and internet. And yes you can turn it off, but how long can you before you fall behind in the game? It's hard a line to walk because as much as I would love to move off the grid, it's just not something that's really in my cards. Born a proletarian and I'll die a proletarian. Such medicines/teachers/substances are cures, when used with proper respect/intent/purpose to the things which blind you: power draining habits, not exercising compassion or love to all things, or using social status/wealth as a means to disadvantage others etc. I'm not saying, I have a sore throat so blast off into hyperspace. It doesn't work like that. But as you say, such teachers/medicines (aside: I do believe Ayahuasca is often referred to as a medicine AND a teacher) do have the ability to catalyze change in mental which can manifest in the physical.

thankyou