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How often to trip?

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bringeroflight

Rising Star
Lately I've been testing mushrooms and LSH as artistic enhancers. For a while I was averaging about one dose a week, but having decided I should allow a little more time for integration and exercise of my own internal psychedelic capacities, I'm spanning the trips out to about every 2-3 weeks now. I've been nothing but satisfied with how well this works, but I'm interested in what others have to say about it. I used to think that one shouldn't trip more than a few times a year, but I'm finding now that maybe that logic is fear based and unreasonable, because I feel I make a LOT more progress artistically and as a being in general with more frequent doses than that. These things do seem to be evolutionary expediters, and applied with the careful intent of using them as such, is there any reason not to dose this often?

With that said, I feel that my brain works better, much better in the presence of moderate amounts of Psilocybin or organic acid than it does in its normal mode of societal operation; like the psychedelic optimizes my clarity and power of thought. I aspire to become independently able to acheive these kinds of states without any input at all, but in the meantime this incredible mind and spirit medicine which has been liberating for me beyond any extents I once imagined possible will continue to find its way in to my routines. Thoughts?
 
Great question and a topic that is often on my mind. I have been tripping on oral DMT or other psychedelics usually every Saturday for the past 20 months. I don't smoke weed or drink and I work out five or six days a week lifting weights and running. Initially I experienced explosive creativity and deep philosophical insights into my life, my psychology, and the world itself. It was as if the veil was lifted and I was seeing reality with a new pair of eyes. In addition, my trips were incredibly euphoric, insightful, and unpredictably mind-exploding. As I have become obsessed with psychedelics and these plants have taken a central focus in my life, other parts of life have become less important. I'd rather stay home and read about DMT rather than go out and be social. I find myself making absent minded mistakes all the time, as if I have lost the ability to remember things.

Also, since I discovered changa, my once a week tripping schedule has been compromised. It's so easy to take a hit and blast off for fifteen minutes. I almost wish DMT didn't have the option to be smoked as changa because I find myself looking for reasons to smoke it all the time. It's fucking awesome. So How often to trip? I don't know, people say that you must integrate your previous trip but that is really meaningless to me. I don't know how to integrate the wacked out ideas and situations that I encounter (My ex-girlfriend had sex with a famous rockstar and I am the child - this was revealed to me on DMT!) Anyway, I guess you need to be hyper critical of yourself and trust in your loved ones to tell you that you are either becoming enlightened or an asshole.
 
i agree with joebono, frequent users of dmt/mushrooms/psychs are basically multidimensional tightrope walkers. when you choose to trip you're choosing for things to get weird, and if things are always getting weird - you might just fall off your tightrope. dmt is a reality bender, if you feel like your artistic side is enhanced, you have to remember that not everyone else is tripping every weekend and they probably don't see your art the same way as you, since you're tripping.

i am an artist and i've seen my art get better only when i took long breaks from tripping. i'm only now starting to take steps towards the tightrope, but i want my art to give people the sensation of triping without having to battle with their misguided stereotypes of "drugs."
 
I've been pondering this question too. I've done it 4 times in the past ~6weeks and I feel fine. Is there a general consensus on how often one should trip? Sometimes I get the calling but don't go through with it because I don't know if I would be going overboard especially since I don't know what overboard is.
 
Personally I wouldn't worry about the mushrooms but maybe about the LSH. Now I really only know about LSA not LSH but I dont think they are that different. I have read that LSA can give some negative cardiovascular side effects. The main problem is things like LSA/LSH dont get long term studies like some of the more popular ones have had.
 
TrustLoveMan said:
At the University of Miami they found that long term ayahuasca use did not have any long term, negative effects.
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I think the main difference between the long term ayahuasca users in South America and myself is that they take it in a supportive environment where they sing, chant, and pray along with loved ones. It truly is a religious experience and the context is much different than most recreational trippers. I take it and listen to rock music, stare at trees, surf the internet, and engage in maniacal laughter as reality bends and snaps at the seams. Perhaps the setting for most recreation trippers is not necessarily conducive to long term positive effects.
 
Edit:
SWIM goes when called, sometimes everyday for a few weeks, other times not at all for a week at a time. She hasn't noticed any detrimental effect following this pattern - especially not compared to regular marijuana or alcohol use.

joebono said:
Perhaps the setting for most recreation trippers is not necessarily conducive to long term positive effects.
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Also, it would seem, very different cognitive demands get made upon the individuals using aya in a traditional setting versus those living in or near an information-based economy.
 
I read that some Peruvian MC's-in-training are required to swig that brew every day! One would think that doing so would lead to more tiredness and body load than us 9-5 working stiffs can deal with....which leads to the spice-smoking 15 minute daily detour.
 
I find that I use such medicines every so often, perhaps once a month at most. I use these experiences similar to wiping and reloading my computer. As my brain gets cluttered with cultural time-wasting spam and junk mail, I turn to my ally in psilocybin to reset my hardrive and reinstall. Personally, I find profound effects in my meditations post trip, sometimes weeks after.

I have more recently just discovered DMT; still trying to acquaint myself with it. However my first few flips through hyperspace were beautiful yet intensely powerful.
 
I wanted to add some more on this topic because I feel that it is one that I often question.

After reading through this forum a bit, it seems there are two thought groups on this: hardcore users, hyperspacing everyday/week and mediocre users, who have gotten in touch with the molecule and see its potential, maybe using it every so often. But if you look at these lifestyles, there is a large difference in spice consumption. How much is enough? Is there ever enough? Can it be overdone? These are all questions I wonder about.

Not in any particularly bothersome way, but I'm curious as to the lives of the super trippers, the guys that are diving in day after day. What are you searching for? Is it just pleasure? Or is it the escape?

I see entheogens as medicine, a means to an end. When you are sick you take medicine. Perhaps it maybe a slight sickness, but if you're body is too weak alone, you seek aide. But eventually, you get better. So what happens when you take medicine and you're not sick? That is abuse, just like people who take pain killers when they are not in pain. So what I ask is, what is your line between necessary (read "prescription") and recreational?

The reason I ask, is because I sense an over-indulgence within the community. I see many people have posts pushing more spice consumption and more flips through hyperspace. But I have a fear that this mentality will only lead to a path of more illusions. Living in a land ruled by consumerism, I can only see this pattern repeating itself. Attachment leads to slavery, even if it means slavery to the thing that freed you. I do not think the goal of the spice is attachment to the substance, but as a medicine to lead you along the path to understanding. The understanding that was inside you all along, but yet may fail to realize. And a way through realization is experience. The journey is the destination.

I know I am an outsider here, but my curiosity of the spice led me here. And I like what I see here. Thank you.
 
A recent post may answer this question:

Here is yet another very informative speech by Bashar about taking action which is relevant to this thread as it explains what will happen if one downloads too much information, in other words if one smokes too much spice:


Based on the key message of the video SWIM offers the following consideration:

The spice opens a broadband communication channel between a personality body-mind-construct (physical being) and the higher mind. The higher mind always has the full perspective and sees the optimal path which is communicated to the physical person through vision (SWIM has experiences visions of his future in the physical world on DMT many times). Visitation of other worlds and communication with beings is part of that communication with or through higher mind, just like the physical world communicates with a person by putting the right book (or a YouTube-Video like this one) at the right moment in his hands.
The information one receives must flow through person, which is done by taking action. In other words one must use the information received on DMT or meditation or other means. Otherwise the download will cease!
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Thanks for chiming in everyone. I guess 'how much' depends on the application. If these trips were just for recreation, I wouldn't do them nearly as often because I don't think it would be all that constructive or character-building to have that kind of experience that often. For example, this frequency of use probably wouldn't be of much benefit to the partyer who aims only to get 'wasted' with some drug, and hasn't even begun to grasp the entheogen. But these tools of insight are so powerful that I think we can use them as catalysts for creating whatever we want, if we learn to apply them. On the other hand, someone mentioned an important point about dependency, and I agree that dependency isn't the key here; integration is. I don't want to be totally reliant on the psychedelic to experience the profound, uplift my faith, and empower my spirit, so I focus on accomplishing all of this between trips as well. Basically, psychedelics are my teacher, who shows me the potential and how to reach for it. They are an aid that helps me access the divine.

And yes, it's a tight rope in itself, but I actually feel that the psychedelics usually put me back on the tight rope, which my wandering, culturally conditioned mind has a tendency to fall off of without even noticing and sometimes forget about all together. I think we're going to end up walking some tight rope or another no matter what we choose in life, and I'm not sure I'd even know which one to be on right now if it weren't for my psychedelic methods. They give me not only the clarity and alignment for who I want to become, but the empowered mindset I need to get there.

So the gist of it, is that I see these things as a reference, or something for me to tune my life to. So I go on, aspiring to become psychedelic in and of my own mind, using these guides every so often to make sure I'm still in key.



And someone also mentioned that LSH doses of that frequency might be dangerous. I've considered that, which is why I go with mushrooms regularly and LSH more occasionally; no more than every month or two.
 
KwisatzHaderach said:
I see entheogens as medicine, a means to an end. When you are sick you take medicine. Perhaps it maybe a slight sickness, but if you're body is too weak alone, you seek aide. But eventually, you get better.
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SWIM engages with Hyperspace as a symbiotic relationship. The whole medicine idea, she sees coming from a Euro-centric modeling of the shaman as medicine worker. It really seems that after some work with the Spice, it indicates what level of engagement comes appropriate to you as an individual. Rationalizing what appropriate use would be doesn't make sense in light of the great individual variation in capacity for integration and development. Some people feel that vaped Spice has much too a chaotic character to it to bring anything back. For SWIM, Hyperspace does not appear chaotic, except when she progresses to a deeper level of experience, and she has high recall coming back.

Also, she experiences no craving for hyperspace for the periods that she doesn't receive the call, and it provides no "high" for her in the sense that other drugs have provided.

It seems like you still approach this experience as a drug that gets used. While a completely valid interpretation, SWIM has found that those who approach it in such a manner do not progress in their level of engagement as much as those who adopt the position of a burgeoning relationship.

Sporadic thoughts, had a bit more beer than usual with dinner. Cheers!
 
I like and understand your thinking of a symbiotic relationship as I feel that too. Because during the experience, I can quantify a give, take and growing capacities a relationship provides. I feel especially a relationship for the oneness of the universe. I like the idea of a relationship, because it is dynamic thing. It is liable to change. And because of this it is fluid, it is alive. It will be a different relationship for every person.

I definitely agree that every person will have their own cycle of use and integration. So perhaps that is the answer. Enough is enough when you say its enough. But I did want to further clarify on this point in my own work:

It seems like you still approach this experience as a drug that gets used. While a completely valid interpretation, SWIM has found that those who approach it in such a manner do not progress in their level of engagement as much as those who adopt the position of a burgeoning relationship.
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What I think we are still stuck on is the syntax of the drug vs medicine vs relationship vs etc. Drug is a dirty word stigmatized by awful substances like coke, meth, etc. Frankly, I don't like to associate that word with teacher allies. So let's pass over that one. But we cannot deny etymology. How about medicine? Medicine is technically a drug, but it differs in administration. Regardless, you still gotta ingest it somehow (reinforcing the "drug" aspect). But what about the purpose of administration? The difference here is intent. Intent is the purpose behind doing something. Which as yourself say:

she experiences no craving for hyperspace for the periods that she doesn't receive the call, and it provides no "high" for her in the sense that other drugs have provided.
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If you are just looking to get high, this probably isn't gonna do anything for you (I really haven't see anyone on this site for that purpose so yea...).

So I think it's intent that really will unfold or deny the experience from you. However, I think that general rule applies to any waking experience as well. You go to a movie, and you tell yourself the movie is gonna suck. So you probably don't fully get into the movie and don't enjoy it. But if you go into the movie with an open mindset, you may enjoy the movie even if it's not critic appraised. (Who cares what they say anyway? It was YOUR experience.)

But a few more questions to ponder...Should everyone take entheogens? Do you believe all people NEED that experience at least once to "turn on"/"wake up"? Do you believe this is the only path to enlightenment? Do you yourself believe you will continue smoking/ingesting spice for the rest of your life? Or will there be a point where you believe you could continue to apply the knowledge/lifestyle on your own accord?

I think these questions are important in the idea formulated by the mindset of a temporary medicine rather than an amputation/augmentation. In the sense that there may come a point when the medicine becomes moot; rather an amputation/augmentation has a sense of permanence. Because I believe that some people do not need these entheogenic experiences and will wake up in their own time through other means.

In the end, with love I say, I just want everyone to remember that since psychedelic agents are external of yourself, it tends to subtlety reinforce in you a feeling that you are not enough. Ultimately, of course, at the end of the path you come to realize that you have been Enough all the way along. Thank you.
 
KwisatzHaderach said:
But a few more questions to ponder...Should everyone take entheogens? Do you believe all people NEED that experience at least once to "turn on"/"wake up"? Do you believe this is the only path to enlightenment? Do you yourself believe you will continue smoking/ingesting spice for the rest of your life? Or will there be a point where you believe you could continue to apply the knowledge/lifestyle on your own accord?
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Cheers. I don't believe in any universals, particularly regarding sentient behavior so no, not everyone should take entheogens. It seems to me that each entheogen has its own line of development that will interact with other lines within the individual, but make more sense as distinct. So SWIM's relationship with DMT is different from changa or from caapi or from mushrooms or from LSD or from ketamine. So saying "that experience" doesn't really make much sense to her. Transcendental experiences can come through other methods as well, it doesn't make sense to reduce one vehicle's experience of the transcendent to a general transcendent experience.

To me, enlightenment refers to a very specific result of through the progression of a single line of development. Some form of insight practice appears necessary, from the testimony of all the Wisdom Traditions, to attain this result. Entheogens will never lead to enlightenment alone, just as jhana meditation will never lead to enlightenment on its own.

I don't know what you mean by "apply the knowledge/lifestyle on your own accord?" It seems like the same question as "could you apply your marriage/friendship on your own without your partner?" When SWIM says she engages with hyperspace as a relationship, she doesn't mean that any more metaphorically than when she says she engages her best friendship as a relationship.
 
Entheogens will never lead to enlightenment alone, just as jhana meditation will never lead to enlightenment on its own.
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This statement is poignant enough on its own and perhaps partially the point I was trying to justify: entheogens will never lead to enlightenment alone. And could even justify an even more general point: that harmony comes through the balance of all things. Which is, as we've exhausted in this thread, how often to dose:

As often as it makes sense.
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And in the question about needing that experience, I was referring to the psychedelic/transcendental experience. I am not sure about yourself, but there always seems to be a recognizable breakdown of the "classic" psychedelic trip that are recognizable to me in my own trips. That breaking down, and building back up feeling. However, you say your relationship is different to DMT than changa, caapi, LSD etc. Do you have other organic similar relationships to these substances as DMT?

And perhaps since I haven't had much exposure to DMT, I have not yet had time to feel out this relationship, but I can understand where that could come from. I could imagine going into a trip thinking "time hang out, learn and have fun with my friend DMT". But I suppose you could factor in a relationship factor to anything as our waking consciousness itself is a relationship to the world and the things around us.

thankyou
 
You need to properly adjust things in your life. The problem is that we play games with our ego and our psyche is full of deceptions. Everyone has an intuitive feel about choices we make and it holds true when it comes to substance use. Misuse or abuse is an effect of our own mind deceiving ourselves.

Self-awareness is the key ability in controlling, for example, substance use. But you also need to adjust to all troubling signals. You need a fair share of clarity when you want to understand if unpleasant symptoms are good or bad in the long run. Emotional crisis can be like catharsis but it can also lead to more stable forms of personal disorders.

Abuse (sometimes misuse as well) leads to destabilized personality on emotional, mental and social level. Those spheres of life heavily influence man's health, both mental and physical.

Increasing social anxiety, unusual or paranoid thoughts, difficulties in interpersonal relationships, emotional roller-coaster and many more are symptoms of something going wrong. The key is to be aware of changes because some problems are not made by poisonous elements of psychedelic experience. People to easily lump all negative aspects of their lives into "drug problem" bag. Drugs are okay. People who use them, not necessarily.

P.S. If you have found a true teacher, then take his advices deadly serious!
 
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