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How to get complete white dmt from mhrb
- Thread starter girche
- Start date
M0K0 said:
Ditto, and the glass I use is tapered.
One love
Jees said:
I second this.
Backwash details that could minimize DMT polymerization:
- Stir in dilute acid overnight. With time, the most stubborn DMT polymers seem to be broken up. Like Jess said, don't use a lot of acid to minimize ionic strength in the next step.
- Add Naphtha before basing
- Add base slowly while shaking with Naphtha and sample the water pH. Target a pH of 10.7, to finish up (water will also stop clouding as base is added). I think we want to avoid cloudy water sitting around to minimize DMT polymer.
Not sure which of these matter more, but combined they turn yellow goo to white xtals.
Yellow goo and white xtals seem the same to me effect-wise. Advantages of white xtals: seem more soluble in naphtha during the pulls, easier to handle, and more reliable vaping on e-mesh (goo seems to need higher temperature that can be variable).
Also during extraction, it helps to not get too crazy with pH and ionic strength. Jees is right, that some aggressiveness is needed to fight emulsions and the plant matrix. I think good targets when battling plant matter are pH~12 and ~2.5M ionic strength (as used in the max ion tek). Naphtha can also be added before basing, but this time the pH is increased until the plant emulsion is broken up. With more aggressive conditions DMT polymerizes making it more difficult to go into naphtha, which then requires heat, which also makes contaminants more soluble in Naphtha. With gentler conditions, impossible emulsions can form. Therefore, there is an optimal range (which I think max ion tek found).
Edit: also during the plant extraction when at high pH (~12) having dilute DMT (<0.5%) may help minimize polymer formation (again, a condition used in max ion).
In summary,
Conditions that may cause DMT to aggregate into goo:
- High ionic strength
- High pH
- High DMT concentration
- Time in alkaline water (more is worse)
Back salting conditions that may break up DMT goo into white DMT:
- Don't back salt at a very high DMT concentration (~1% or less seems ok)
- Time in dilute acid (more is better, overnight with stirring seems sufficient). Dilute acid could be 1 in 5 parts vinegar. Note: in the past, some people may have confused this acidic polymer break down with a false DMT "oxide" reduction and even added zinc unnecessarily)
- Low ionic strength (skip salt)
- Time in alkaline water (less is better, so add naptha before basing and shake while basing to minimize time water is cloudy).
- Low pH target ~10.7 (stop ~ after white clouds stop forming)
unclebob
Rising Star
Another thing you might try is Q21Q21’s vinegar/lime tek. According to Q21Q21, the first pull should always produce snow white crystals.
SWIM used the tek a few times, but SWIM used petroleum ether 40-60 as the non-polar solvent instead of naphtha. The downside of this NPS is that it is highly volatile and you’ll lose a lot to evaporation. The plus is that this solvent seems to produce perfectly white and smooth crystals every time.
I’ve written about SWIM's experiences with the tek here.
SWIM used the tek a few times, but SWIM used petroleum ether 40-60 as the non-polar solvent instead of naphtha. The downside of this NPS is that it is highly volatile and you’ll lose a lot to evaporation. The plus is that this solvent seems to produce perfectly white and smooth crystals every time.
I’ve written about SWIM's experiences with the tek here.
Jees said:
Thank you!
Well, I was going to wait until next month before doing another, but will probably start working on one where the acid bath is already completed so I can answer your question.
I usually heat the solvent in near boiling water for about a minute before adding to the soup. I'll take the actual temp for this step on this next extraction.
One love
Did max ion on 100g of bark, but I added Naptha before basing to try to minimize polymerization while basing. Instead of a pH meter, I based until the emulsion starts to break up. Can't say if this "approach" reduced polymerization for sure, but I am happy with the result.
2.2% after 3 pulls of off-white DMT. I may have a couple hundred mg on a 4th pull xtalizing soon. The jar broke while I was doing my 5th pull and the bark was lost
. Think I'll end up at ~2.5% and be happy with that.
2.2% after 3 pulls of off-white DMT. I may have a couple hundred mg on a 4th pull xtalizing soon. The jar broke while I was doing my 5th pull and the bark was lost
. Think I'll end up at ~2.5% and be happy with that.Attachments
Ya, I assumed my roughly 1% yield was expected and a result of the quality of bark.
I'm going home, smoalking changa, then will salinate and base an acid soup...
I'm surrounded by troublemakers
One love
I'm going home, smoalking changa, then will salinate and base an acid soup...
I'm surrounded by troublemakers
One love
Enjoy Voidmatrix.
Fourth pull had 370mg. Very few crystals, scraped up it a semi solid orange with a little bit of oil.
I think this is polymerized DMT. Room temp Naphtha leaves this perfectly good DMT behind (I think) since polymerized DMT is less soluble at room temp. During re-x in a small amount of naphtha, the lower degree of polymerization parts go into solution first, leaving the more polymerized and darker DMT behind, which can give the illusion of a "clean-up", but in reality one could be throwing away the higher degree of polymerized DMT which is perfectly good.
I think I can de-polymerize it and get white xtals like Jees and I have done before. Will stir in organic acid overnight to break the polymer up and to a base extraction with minimal polymerization conditions (no salt, gentle pH, naphtha present while basing).
If the de-polymerization works, I'll get ~2.6% yield from 4 pulls of off-white xtals
Fourth pull had 370mg. Very few crystals, scraped up it a semi solid orange with a little bit of oil.
I think this is polymerized DMT. Room temp Naphtha leaves this perfectly good DMT behind (I think) since polymerized DMT is less soluble at room temp. During re-x in a small amount of naphtha, the lower degree of polymerization parts go into solution first, leaving the more polymerized and darker DMT behind, which can give the illusion of a "clean-up", but in reality one could be throwing away the higher degree of polymerized DMT which is perfectly good.
I think I can de-polymerize it and get white xtals like Jees and I have done before. Will stir in organic acid overnight to break the polymer up and to a base extraction with minimal polymerization conditions (no salt, gentle pH, naphtha present while basing).
If the de-polymerization works, I'll get ~2.6% yield from 4 pulls of off-white xtals
Attachments
Tony6Strings
Esteemed member
Check out this thread...
This was done with a standard A/B.
Loveall that last chunk looks tasty!!
This was done with a standard A/B.
Loveall that last chunk looks tasty!!
girche
Rising Star
@Moko , @Loveall , @Voidmatrix , @unclebob
thankee all guys !
i finally get snowish crystal in my extraction.I think using Heptane as solvent was the imortant factor.it's finest solvent indeed.BTW i didn't use warm bath and avoid all heating.i havn't freezed my 2nd and 3rd pulls.first pull was 400 mg
thankee all guys !
i finally get snowish crystal in my extraction.I think using Heptane as solvent was the imortant factor.it's finest solvent indeed.BTW i didn't use warm bath and avoid all heating.i havn't freezed my 2nd and 3rd pulls.first pull was 400 mg
girche said:
Ahem, uh, pics please :twisted:
One love
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
FWIW, polymerisation (or oligomerisation, at least) and polymorphism may be intimately linked in the case of freebase DMT crystal inasmuch as the yellow goo is probably down to base-catalysed polymerisation/oligomerisation. [EDIT: I should have read the thread, seems this has been covered already.]Voidmatrix said:
2nd that.
Loveall said:Enjoy Voidmatrix.
Fourth pull had 370mg. Very few crystals, scraped up it a semi solid orange with a little bit of oil.
I think this is polymerized DMT. Room temp Naphtha leaves this perfectly good DMT behind (I think) since polymerized DMT is less soluble at room temp. During re-x in a small amount of naphtha, the lower degree of polymerization parts go into solution first, leaving the more polymerized and darker DMT behind, which can give the illusion of a "clean-up", but in reality one could be throwing away the higher degree of polymerized DMT which is perfectly good.
I think I can de-polymerize it and get white xtals like Jees and I have done before. Will stir in organic acid overnight to break the polymer up and to a base extraction with minimal polymerization conditions (no salt, gentle pH, naphtha present while basing).
If the de-polymerization works, I'll get ~2.6% yield from 4 pulls of off-white xtals
Attempt to de-polymerize in progress. Will report in a couple days.
A mini A/B with 5% vinegar + 5% citric + 5% ascorbic and 12 hours of stirring converted orange goo (first image) to white DMT (almost 100% conversion, see second image). Note: A previous attempt with 2% citric only and 24h was not successful (indicating it is not a contamination issue).
This is a repeat of a previous result in a thread that Benz started and nothing new.
So how about looking into a TEK that keeps polymerization in mind and tries to minimize it?
So what would a "Min Poly TEK" look like? Some polymerization always happens, so maybe a TEK with a dedicated de-polymerization step is worth while. How about something like this:
1) Plant Matrix separation: Mix 100g bark, 200g water, and 25g of NaOH. Rest for 24h for plant matrix to be broken down.
2) De-polymerization: Add 500ml of vinegar. After that, dissolve in 40g of citric acid and 40g of ascorbic acid. Shake every once in a while for at least 24h.
3) FB extraction: Add 100ml of naphtha. Add 40g of NaOH to roughly neutralize the solution. Slowly add more NaOH (~10 to 20g) while mixing. Liquid will become cloudy temporarily and emulsions will form. With enough NaOH the emulsion will break. Siphon off naphtha.
4) Freeze precipitate as usual.
This is a repeat of a previous result in a thread that Benz started and nothing new.
So how about looking into a TEK that keeps polymerization in mind and tries to minimize it?
So what would a "Min Poly TEK" look like? Some polymerization always happens, so maybe a TEK with a dedicated de-polymerization step is worth while. How about something like this:
1) Plant Matrix separation: Mix 100g bark, 200g water, and 25g of NaOH. Rest for 24h for plant matrix to be broken down.
2) De-polymerization: Add 500ml of vinegar. After that, dissolve in 40g of citric acid and 40g of ascorbic acid. Shake every once in a while for at least 24h.
3) FB extraction: Add 100ml of naphtha. Add 40g of NaOH to roughly neutralize the solution. Slowly add more NaOH (~10 to 20g) while mixing. Liquid will become cloudy temporarily and emulsions will form. With enough NaOH the emulsion will break. Siphon off naphtha.
4) Freeze precipitate as usual.
Attachments
ShamanisticVibes
Rising Star
Apologies if this has been answered or is somewhere in the wiki, but I browsed very quickly to no avail and need to get to bed, so I thought I would put this out to see if the community had a decisive answer for me. If I have yellow spice that was pulled using a slightly modified cybs stb tek (NPS=naptha), could I, in theory, use toluene to clean it up a bit and turn it white? I ran out of naptha, but do have some tuluene from another hobby lying around, and was wondering if I could save a few dollars by simply using it.... Thanks in advance to anyone who may be able to help.
Blessings.
Blessings.
Dirty T
Rising Star
The problem with solvents like Toluene and Xylene is you can not freeze precipate and that's where all those nice white crystals form. I can get pure white crystals pulling with plain Naptha if I freeze precipate but if I evaporate I always get yellow goo. Recrystallization using Naptha freeze precipation will turn the yellow goo into white crystals. You should really be saving, reusing and cleaning your Naptha anyway.
ShamanisticVibes
Rising Star
Dirty T said:
Ok, thank you. However, it was freeze precipitate, and I was re-using it, I think that is how I ended up with the yellow is from re-using it multiple time. I was unaware that I could clean yellowed naptha back into clear