How to know if extraction is producing N,N-DMT or 5-MeO-DMT?

[RUAware]

I've read a few extraction processes, they all used root bark, some mimosa others used acacia, and others used different plants. How do you know which type of DMT gets extracted; N,N-DMT or 5-MeO-DMT? Just to clarify, I don't mean it as the plant contains both kinds of DMT, and if an error is made, or a certain extraction process if followed one gets extracted over the other. I mean it as in, which extraction processes produce which type of DMT? And how do you know?

 

[marz]

RUAware I really don't understand your question either but I can assure you there are people in this community working to find A-Reliable 5-meo-dmt Source plant particularly me as well I'm on a Endeavor with a local plant (acacia farnesiana) and actually today got done collecting all parts of the plant such as Root bark, flowers, leafs, bark off branches so I can insure you members of the community are hard at work testing hopefully will will know more about the (acacia farnesiana) soon and how much are if any 5-meo-dmt it contains.:thumb_up:

 

[dreamer042]

Isn't 5-MeO-DMT one of the most hated tryptamines? Many people report that it induces almost exclusively bad trips. Erowid 5-MeO-DMT bad trips

It appears you got caught in a subsection of the 5-MEO-DMT vault.

You may have missed the Glowing Experiences and the Mystical Experiences sections, both of which are over twice the size of the bad trips section.

 

[PhatShots]

5-MeO-DMT is the DMT you would find in a Colorado river toad. If you are extracting from a plant material you will always get N, N-DMT, always. Sorry if this was answered already!!

Unless the plant material contains 5-methoxy-dimethyltryptamine, then you will get 5-meo-DMT along with any other present trptamines...

I'm not sure I understand what you were trying to say here...

Bufo alvarius toad venom contains 5-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine as well as 5-methoxy-DMT... Though these two compounds are also found in a wide variety of plants and are produced by many living creatures.

-eg

Yes but the two he was referring to (mimosa and acacia) do not.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

5-MeO-DMT is the DMT you would find in a Colorado river toad. If you are extracting from a plant material you will always get N, N-DMT, always. Sorry if this was answered already!!

Unless the plant material contains 5-methoxy-dimethyltryptamine, then you will get 5-meo-DMT along with any other present trptamines...

I'm not sure I understand what you were trying to say here...

Bufo alvarius toad venom contains 5-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine as well as 5-methoxy-DMT... Though these two compounds are also found in a wide variety of plants and are produced by many living creatures.

-eg

Yes but the two he was referring to (mimosa and acacia) do not.

Oh, I misunderstood.

Yes, as acacia confusa and mimosa hostilis rootbarks, the two most common plant sources for DMT extract, do NOT contain 5-meo-DMT, this should not be anything to worry about...

But, your still getting other tryptamines, ACRB is particularly rich in in N-methyl-tryptamine and also contains trace beta-carbolines (see attachment)

mimosa hostilis even contains a novel indole compound, yuremamine.

(Not to go off topic, but I found an excellent article on this compounds biosynthetic pathway:

Bioinspired total synthesis and structural revision of yuremamine, an alkaloid from the entheogenic plant Mimosa tenuiflora
Matthew B. Calvert and Jonathan Sperry
Chem. Commun., 2015,51, 6202-6205
DOI: 10.1039/C5CC00380F, Communication

Bioinspired total synthesis and structural revision of yuremamine, an alkaloid from the entheogenic plant Mimosa tenuiflora

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Isn't 5-MeO-DMT one of the most hated tryptamines? Many people report that it induces almost exclusively bad trips. Erowid 5-MeO-DMT bad trips
Yopo and Cebil are supposed to contain both 5-MeO-DMT and Bufotenin.
Cebil is supossed to be higher in Bufotenin while Yopo is higher in 5-MeO-DMT see this for more info.
I have been using mostly cebil seeds. For me they feel like a weaker ayahuasca.
Bufotenin is also supposed to be harder to extract with normal DMT teks but I never even bothered. Just heat, grind, mix and up the nose.

Jesus, if you can tolerate cebil, I imagine 5-meo-DMT would be quite pleasant in comparison...

I tried yopo once, it was awful, a horrible experiance...

The yopo was prepared by a friend of mine, a student in south American shamanism, someone I trusted. Any way, the preparation was made, ( the burned and crushed seeds were mixed with calcium hydroxide/oxide (lime) as well as with some green powder plant matter and another unidentified powder) a good deal of the complete preparation (about 1g) was loaded into a long wooden tube, I got down on my knees and placed one end of the tube in my nose, my shaman friend exhaled deeply and with full force into the powder filled tube...WHAM! It felt like he had hit me full force in the face with a baseball bat, my eyes watered and swelled shut, my sinuses burned and were recoiling in shock as if I had just had a solid object rocketed up my nose, I was drooling, blood was dripping from my nose, and the coarse powder was dripping into the back of my throat, I was gasping for air...This is just the effect from having a gram of powder shot into my sinuses, which was horrible, but just as the pain begins to numb, you realize you can feel the compounds, I could feel "pins and needles" rushing across my face, my skin felt tight...constricted, there was alsi a tightness in my chest so intense it was difficult to breathe, and a mental state of complete disorientation, similar to the feeling of when the blood rushes from your head and you pass out, only instead of passing out, this "passing out" feeling grew more intense than I had ever felt it, it was clear, not fuzzy, and you think "this is more than any human can handle, why am I not actually going into peaceful blackness the follows the rushing climax of the pass out?"...you just go deeper into this disconnected, inhuman, non-body, buzzing state, just like the intense feelings and hallucinations type things that occur during a head-rush just before you pass out.... I don't know, that's a bad metaphor, but I don't know how else to describe it...

I had seed powder showing up in my snot for a few days after that...

Very painful, very scary...

All species of Anadenanthera seed contain 5-hydroxy-DMT as their key alkaloid, and I'm convinced that 5-hydroxy-DMT was responsible for the effect of the yopo...it did not feel like any DMT I had ever done before, I really don't know 5-meo-DMT well enough to say, but I'm convinced it was the 5-ho-DMT that produced the psychological effects...

The level of physical pain involved in ingestion is bad enough, then you go into a 5-ho-DMT intoxication...not for me...

Then again, this is something I only tried once, and though there is no chance in hell that I would ever repeat this venture, I accept that there could have been a good deal of benneficial aspects and components that I simply missed...I also take into account how varied these snuffs are in plant and alkaloid content...however the ROA was my biggest issue, I may experiment with the seeds via different routes of administration in the future, but as far as snuffs go, Anadenanthera seeds are not for me.

(Though the Virola theiodora resin preperations, even the snuffs are of much interest to me.)

------

Information regarding alkaloid content of Anadenanthera species seeds...

2.1% yield of bufotenine from seeds of Anadenanthera colubrina collected in autumn near Rio de Janeiro. Voucher prepared. Pachter et al. 1959

Most accounts have found only bufotenine in the seeds but claims of the presence of DMT and/or 5-MeO-DMT exist.

Anadenanthera colubrina (Lellozo) Brennan var. cebil (Grisebach) Altschul (= Piptadenia macrocarpa)

DMT as the sole alkaloid in pods. Not detected in seeds. Bufotenine, Bufotenine-N-oxide and DMT-N-oxide were present in seeds. Neither was detected in the pods. Fish et al. 1955. Material from both Florida and Brazil were used. Florida material gave weak results.

Anadenanthera colubrina var. Cebil seeds
(% are dry wt.) nd indicates not detected.
Source Part DMT Bufotenine 4-OH-MMT
Cerro San
Bernardo Bark traces traces nd
Misión Wichi Seed 0.06% 12.4% 0.57%
Salta #1 Seed nd 4.41% nd
Salta #2 Seed nd 3.51% nd
Salta #2 Pods 0.05% 0.05% nd

No 5-Methoxy compounds, N-oxides or B-carbolines were detected in any samples. All were from Argentina. [Interestingly, the 12.4% seeds were collected from a shaman's garden.])
Salta #2 Seeds were small and poorly developed. Pods were said to be mature.


Anadenanthera colubrina var. Cebil
In northwestern Argentina, Anadenanthera colubrina var. Cebil seeds were smoked by the Abipones of the Cahaco (c. 1784), using combustion within a small structure, and were snuffed by the Lule of the Chaco (circa 1733). The Wichi (Mataco) still use the seeds both ways (seeds are smoked with tobacco). Torres & Repke 1996

An intriguing but still unanswered question comes up once again due to the report of Prosopis seeds being found in association with both Anadenanthera seeds and 2 feline-bone smoking pipes (in which DMT residue was detected) in a much older archeological site in NW Argentina. Torres & Repke 1996. [Pipes were dated to 2130 B.C. The archaeological evidence suggests that smoking preceded snuffing and was gradually replaced by it. (Page 314 in Torres 1996 citing Fernandez Distel 1980)] Other pipes were found with alkaloidal residue but were unaccompanied by plant material.
Anadenanthera excelsa Grisebach [Argentina]
DMT in seedpods (sole alkaloid present) Iacobucci and Rúveda 1964
Bufotenine and Bufotenine-N-oxide were in seeds. Lower concentration than P. macrocarpa. Iacobucci & Rúveda 1964

Anadenanthera falcata (as Piptadenia falcata)

Bufotenine was the major alkaloid in seeds. Giesbrecht 1960.

Snuff: "Yopo"
Believed to have originated from A. peregrina seeds; showed only bufotenine- 160 mg from 6 gm of snuff (2.67%). De Budowski et al. 1974. Another Yopo sample showed only 5-MeO-DMT and was thought to be derived from a Virola species instead.

Snuff: "Epena"
DMT, DMT-N-oxide, Bufotenine and Bufotenine-N-oxide reported in Yanomama snuff prepared from Piptadenia peregrina.
Marini-Bettòlo et al. 1964)

Erowid Online Books : "Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants, and analogs" by Keeper of the Trout

So when consuming Anadenanthera seeds of any species 5-hydroxy-DMT is always the key alkaloid present, sometimes small amounts of 5-meo-DMT and DMT, but mostly 5-hydroxy-DMT...

I'm not certain that 5-hydroxy-DMT is even active in the traditional sense...

A second report carries, at least for me, much more impact. A study of the use of the seeds of a South American legume, Anadenanthera colubrina var. Cebil by the Argentine Shamans in Chaco Central, shows then to be dramatically psychedelic. And yet, extremely sophisticated spectroscopic analysis has shown them to contain bufotenine and only bufotenine as their alkaloid component.

At the bottom line, I do not really know of bufotenine is a psychedelic drug. Maybe yes and maybe no. -shulgin; TIHKAL

-eg

 

[NotTwo]

Isn't 5-MeO-DMT one of the most hated tryptamines? Many people report that it induces almost exclusively bad trips.

A release dose of 5-MeO-DMT will result in complete ego death, the loss of any physical body, the destruction of any thinking process or anything that could be called the [little] mind, the removal of any physical sensation as produced by the five senses.

If you were to fight the process, I'd imagine it would be pretty unpleasant. If you're prepared to lose yourself to it, then it's oneness with the divine, the return to source, knowing the one thing which is everything.

I've spent two months experimenting with this substance and I'm only just beginning to grok the immensity of it. I understand how it could be used for healing (my respect to people who use it in this way) but it's true potential is much, much greater.

 

[brilliantlydim]

Isn't 5-MeO-DMT one of the most hated tryptamines? Many people report that it induces almost exclusively bad trips.

A release dose of 5-MeO-DMT will result in complete ego death, the loss of any physical body, the destruction of any thinking process or anything that could be called the [little] mind, the removal of any physical sensation as produced by the five senses.

If you were to fight the process, I'd imagine it would be pretty unpleasant. If you're prepared to lose yourself to it, then it's oneness with the divine, the return to source, knowing the one thing which is everything.

I've spent two months experimenting with this substance and I'm only just beginning to grok the immensity of it. I understand how it could be used for healing (my respect to people who use it in this way) but it's true potential is much, much greater.

Yep ^

I think the misunderstanding of the difference between n,n and 5-MeO has contributed to many "bad trips" as well.

 

[Ulim]

:| :d :lol: :?: :?

:want: Yes

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I'm fairly old, so I don't understand what the little yellow faces are all about.

...but I do understand that we all start learning somewhere, and that as long as a person is sincere in their inquiries, they deserve a decent response. I could never be condescending or judgemental towards another who is willing to learn about DMT.

...sometimes I understand the "do better research" attitude, but sometimes people need others to get them pointed in the right direction, there's a good deal of disinformation and misinformation out there, so I feel some may need to ask for help, where others would see it as unnecessary or frivolous.

Chemically and pharmacologically I understand 5-methoxy-DMT, but when it comes to actual human use of the compound, I only have a single experiance with a yagé brew containing it, and actually know very little, which is where forums like this become an invaluable resource.

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Isn't 5-MeO-DMT one of the most hated tryptamines? Many people report that it induces almost exclusively bad trips.

A release dose of 5-MeO-DMT will result in complete ego death, the loss of any physical body, the destruction of any thinking process or anything that could be called the [little] mind, the removal of any physical sensation as produced by the five senses.

If you were to fight the process, I'd imagine it would be pretty unpleasant. If you're prepared to lose yourself to it, then it's oneness with the divine, the return to source, knowing the one thing which is everything.

I've spent two months experimenting with this substance and I'm only just beginning to grok the immensity of it. I understand how it could be used for healing (my respect to people who use it in this way) but it's true potential is much, much greater.

Yep ^

I think the misunderstanding of the difference between n,n and 5-MeO has contributed to many "bad trips" as well.

This is a huge issue, a good deal of people out there struggle with this .

I do all that I can to help clarify, but get called "pretentious" and get told "I move to fast"...so I'm at a loss...

I fully described in this thread the difference between DMT and 5-meo-DMT, but I'm not sure I did a very good job...

-eg

 

[Ulim]

Isn't 5-MeO-DMT one of the most hated tryptamines? Many people report that it induces almost exclusively bad trips. Erowid 5-MeO-DMT bad trips
Yopo and Cebil are supposed to contain both 5-MeO-DMT and Bufotenin.
Cebil is supossed to be higher in Bufotenin while Yopo is higher in 5-MeO-DMT see this for more info.
I have been using mostly cebil seeds. For me they feel like a weaker ayahuasca.
Bufotenin is also supposed to be harder to extract with normal DMT teks but I never even bothered. Just heat, grind, mix and up the nose.

Jesus, if you can tolerate cebil, I imagine 5-meo-DMT would be quite pleasant in comparison...

I tried yopo once, it was awful, a horrible experiance...

The yopo was prepared by a friend of mine, a student in south American shamanism, someone I trusted. Any way, the preparation was made, ( the burned and crushed seeds were mixed with calcium hydroxide/oxide (lime) as well as with some green powder plant matter and another unidentified powder) a good deal of the complete preparation (about 1g) was loaded into a long wooden tube, I got down on my knees and placed one end of the tube in my nose, my shaman friend exhaled deeply and with full force into the powder filled tube...WHAM! It felt like he had hit me full force in the face with a baseball bat, my eyes watered and swelled shut, my sinuses burned and were recoiling in shock as if I had just had a solid object rocketed up my nose, I was drooling, blood was dripping from my nose, and the coarse powder was dripping into the back of my throat, I was gasping for air...This is just the effect from having a gram of powder shot into my sinuses, which was horrible, but just as the pain begins to numb, you realize you can feel the compounds, I could feel "pins and needles" rushing across my face, my skin felt tight...constricted, there was alsi a tightness in my chest so intense it was difficult to breathe, and a mental state of complete disorientation, similar to the feeling of when the blood rushes from your head and you pass out, only instead of passing out, this "passing out" feeling grew more intense than I had ever felt it, it was clear, not fuzzy, and you think "this is more than any human can handle, why am I not actually going into peaceful blackness the follows the rushing climax of the pass out?"...you just go deeper into this disconnected, inhuman, non-body, buzzing state, just like the intense feelings and hallucinations type things that occur during a head-rush just before you pass out.... I don't know, that's a bad metaphor, but I don't know how else to describe it...

I had seed powder showing up in my snot for a few days after that...

Very painful, very scary...

All species of Anadenanthera seed contain 5-hydroxy-DMT as their key alkaloid, and I'm convinced that 5-hydroxy-DMT was responsible for the effect of the yopo...it did not feel like any DMT I had ever done before, I really don't know 5-meo-DMT well enough to say, but I'm convinced it was the 5-ho-DMT that produced the psychological effects...

The level of physical pain involved in ingestion is bad enough, then you go into a 5-ho-DMT intoxication...not for me...

Then again, this is something I only tried once, and though there is no chance in hell that I would ever repeat this venture, I accept that there could have been a good deal of benneficial aspects and components that I simply missed...I also take into account how varied these snuffs are in plant and alkaloid content...however the ROA was my biggest issue, I may experiment with the seeds via different routes of administration in the future, but as far as snuffs go, Anadenanthera seeds are not for me.

(Though the Virola theiodora resin preperations, even the snuffs are of much interest to me.)

-eg

I use N2O before snorting it. And dont use CalciumOxide/Hydroxide it just hurts.
Rather use Calciumcarbonate or Sodiumbicarbonate. These do work for me and are way less painful.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Isn't 5-MeO-DMT one of the most hated tryptamines? Many people report that it induces almost exclusively bad trips. Erowid 5-MeO-DMT bad trips
Yopo and Cebil are supposed to contain both 5-MeO-DMT and Bufotenin.
Cebil is supossed to be higher in Bufotenin while Yopo is higher in 5-MeO-DMT see this for more info.
I have been using mostly cebil seeds. For me they feel like a weaker ayahuasca.
Bufotenin is also supposed to be harder to extract with normal DMT teks but I never even bothered. Just heat, grind, mix and up the nose.

Jesus, if you can tolerate cebil, I imagine 5-meo-DMT would be quite pleasant in comparison...

I tried yopo once, it was awful, a horrible experiance...

The yopo was prepared by a friend of mine, a student in south American shamanism, someone I trusted. Any way, the preparation was made, ( the burned and crushed seeds were mixed with calcium hydroxide/oxide (lime) as well as with some green powder plant matter and another unidentified powder) a good deal of the complete preparation (about 1g) was loaded into a long wooden tube, I got down on my knees and placed one end of the tube in my nose, my shaman friend exhaled deeply and with full force into the powder filled tube...WHAM! It felt like he had hit me full force in the face with a baseball bat, my eyes watered and swelled shut, my sinuses burned and were recoiling in shock as if I had just had a solid object rocketed up my nose, I was drooling, blood was dripping from my nose, and the coarse powder was dripping into the back of my throat, I was gasping for air...This is just the effect from having a gram of powder shot into my sinuses, which was horrible, but just as the pain begins to numb, you realize you can feel the compounds, I could feel "pins and needles" rushing across my face, my skin felt tight...constricted, there was alsi a tightness in my chest so intense it was difficult to breathe, and a mental state of complete disorientation, similar to the feeling of when the blood rushes from your head and you pass out, only instead of passing out, this "passing out" feeling grew more intense than I had ever felt it, it was clear, not fuzzy, and you think "this is more than any human can handle, why am I not actually going into peaceful blackness the follows the rushing climax of the pass out?"...you just go deeper into this disconnected, inhuman, non-body, buzzing state, just like the intense feelings and hallucinations type things that occur during a head-rush just before you pass out.... I don't know, that's a bad metaphor, but I don't know how else to describe it...

I had seed powder showing up in my snot for a few days after that...

Very painful, very scary...

All species of Anadenanthera seed contain 5-hydroxy-DMT as their key alkaloid, and I'm convinced that 5-hydroxy-DMT was responsible for the effect of the yopo...it did not feel like any DMT I had ever done before, I really don't know 5-meo-DMT well enough to say, but I'm convinced it was the 5-ho-DMT that produced the psychological effects...

The level of physical pain involved in ingestion is bad enough, then you go into a 5-ho-DMT intoxication...not for me...

Then again, this is something I only tried once, and though there is no chance in hell that I would ever repeat this venture, I accept that there could have been a good deal of benneficial aspects and components that I simply missed...I also take into account how varied these snuffs are in plant and alkaloid content...however the ROA was my biggest issue, I may experiment with the seeds via different routes of administration in the future, but as far as snuffs go, Anadenanthera seeds are not for me.

(Though the Virola theiodora resin preperations, even the snuffs are of much interest to me.)

-eg

I use N2O before snorting it. And dont use CalciumOxide/Hydroxide it just hurts.
Rather use Calciumcarbonate or Sodiumbicarbonate. These do work for me and are way less painful.

I was guessing there may be a method of ingestion that wasn't a complete ordeal physically and psychogicaly...

As I said I only attempted this once, and it was a fairly complex mixture of burned/crushed seeds, misc. plant matter, and lime, then about 1g or more was loaded into a tube that was a few feet long, and this combination was blown into my nose by another person from the other end of the tube, at those speeds the powder may as well be a solid object...

I figured "maybe if we could take reasonable sized lines this would work better" and was told that the amount of powder was necessary, and that on your own it would be near impossible to snort it "line style", your trying to get all the powder into your sinuses in as concentrated form as possible, several tiny lines spaced out would not be effective...

Though again, I'm no expert, I did this once, the shaman, while a good friend and a learned individual, May have been not telling me things or he may have actually figured his way was the best was and in effect the only way.

It's kind of like asking a person who has lived in Hawaii their whole life about hawaii, versus asking a person who had only visited for a day. I don't know yopo snuffs well enough to have an opinion that means that much....

A study of the use of the seeds of a South American legume, Anadenanthera colubrina var. Cebil by the Argentine Shamans in Chaco Central, shows then to be dramatically psychedelic. And yet, extremely sophisticated spectroscopic analysis has shown them to contain bufotenine and only bufotenine as their alkaloid component. Shulgin/TIHKAL

So there may be more going on here then first glance would lead one to think...



-eg

 

[TrippyHippie420]

!!!!!!!!!!Been looking for the answer to this. I've only done 5meo dmt. I never want to do it again. But I really want to try nnDmt. If one were to extract, how does one know if they will be extracting NNDmt or 5meo....... I've read a few different answers. Trying to clarify question to help get more answers cuz I've been curious.

 

[endlessness]

Read back the thread, it should be answered already.. In general you can assume you're not gonna extract 5-MeO-DMT because it is rare in plants in significant quantities, unless you find some virola theiodora resin or something of the sort.