How would one extract Galantamine from Snowdrops or Daffodills?

[SKA]

I have long been interrested in Galantamine as a supplement to aid
vivid and lucid dreaming, but in my country this isn't an OTC drug.

Since Snowdrops and Daffodills contain Galantamine and are so abundant
around here I was wondering:

Would it be do-able for a kitchen chemist to extract relatively pure
Galantamine from Snowdrops or Daffodills?

Or do Daffodills and/or Snowdrops (or any other natural Galantamine source)
contain enough Galantamine for a managable, brewable amount of plant-
matter to be active as a dream enhancer?

Which leads me to the following question:
Do Daffodills & Snowdrops contain any toxins or irritants? ( AKA would
it be safe to drink a hot water tea brewed from Daffodills and/or Snowdrops?)

Even if I could get Galantamine OTC, I bet it is infinitely cheaper to extract
it yourself from abundant, easily grown, winterhardy flowers. And fun.


Anyway, a Galantamine from Snowdrop/Daffodill-extraction Tek would be great.
Anyone who can help?

 

[Vodsel]

I think you asked this in a thread about lucid dream potentiation, and I left there an outline for a tek. Pasting it again here.

Wild populations of N. confusus whole plant are reported to have 18 mg alkaloids per gram of dry weight (1,8% yield) where galantamine is the main compound (around 75%, 1,3% yield) the other alkaloids being haemanthamine, tazettine and N-formylnorgalantamine. Not toxic, that I know of, in the small amounts you would consume when dosing galantamine. But I am not sure.

In the essays with N. confusus tissue,

- Plant material was dried
- Dry plant is soaked in methanol, shaken (sonicated in their case), well filtered (centrifugation in their case, which also helps to separate more polar metabolites) and reduced.
- The extract was dissolved in a solution of 5% acetic acid.
- Acidic solution was de-fatted with ether petroleum.
- Acidic solution was basified with ammonia water to reach pH 8.
- Three pulls with DCM were done and evaporated.

So it would be basically an A/B on a previous methanol extract, with a defat step (I am not sure about precisely why they used different NPs for defat and pulling).

original post.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

well it is an alkaloid..

so i would think an alkaloid extraction (i.e. DMT extraction) would work.

purification/isolation is a different story.

 

[SKA]

I think you asked this in a thread about lucid dream potentiation, and I left there an outline for a tek. Pasting it again here.

Wild populations of N. confusus whole plant are reported to have 18 mg alkaloids per gram of dry weight (1,8% yield) where galantamine is the main compound (around 75%, 1,3% yield) the other alkaloids being haemanthamine, tazettine and N-formylnorgalantamine. Not toxic, that I know of, in the small amounts you would consume when dosing galantamine. But I am not sure.

In the essays with N. confusus tissue,

- Plant material was dried
- Dry plant is soaked in methanol, shaken (sonicated in their case), well filtered (centrifugation in their case, which also helps to separate more polar metabolites) and reduced.
- The extract was dissolved in a solution of 5% acetic acid.
- Acidic solution was de-fatted with ether petroleum.
- Acidic solution was basified with ammonia water to reach pH 8.
- Three pulls with DCM were done and evaporated.

So it would be basically an A/B on a previous methanol extract, with a defat step (I am not sure about precisely why they used different NPs for defat and pulling).

original post.

Ah so that's where I asked that before. I thought I remembered discussing it before, but a quick forum-search on "Galantamine extraction" yielded no results.

A quick google search for N. confuses, the plant source mentioned in that extraction tek you posted, came to a Wikipedia article of a type of beetle
I assume you meant Narcissus Confusus? (Since "Narcissus" is synonimous with "Daffodill" )


The extract mentions Methanol, but I've heard not so pleasant things about Methanol.
Like how it might blind you forever and be significantly carcinogenic. Are my concerns
about kitchen chemist use of Methanol grounded or not? I have no fear of working with
Naphtha & Ethanol as solvents; Would the use of Methanol carry significantly more risk than the use of Naphtha & Ethanol? I'm also a bit concerned that an amount of Methanol might linger in my Galantamine extract. For this same reason I'd rather shy away from using toxic bases like Ammonia: What if some if it lingers in the end product?
Anyway, for now that's why I prefer to avoid Methanol as a solvent & Ammonia as a base.

Could, in this extraction, Methanol be replaced with a less toxic solvent to yield equal results? Could, for instance, Ethanol or Naphtha be a viable substitute for Methanol?

And could the Ammonia be replaced by a less toxic base, like Calcium Hydroxide
for instance?
If any of that lingers in the final product,
then consuming it won't pose a health threat.

Also. Could DCM be replaced by another solvent? As far as I know DCM is not publicly available around here?

Acetic acid is easy enough to get, if white vinegar is pure enough to do the job.
I can get it quite pure too if I must, but I believe it's pricey.
Petroleum Ether is also easily available round here, at least, last time I checked.
With "Ether petroleum" you meant Petroleum ether I assume?

But solvents like pure Xylene, Hexene and DCM are harder to get around here.
Never came across any shop that sold any of these solvents.


Would there be a more low-budget, limited availability-way of doing this extraction
with more readily available, less toxic solvents?

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

methanol is volatile.

meaning it evaps clean.

if you dry your product, you should be fine.

 

[SKA]

methanol is volatile.

meaning it evaps clean.

if you dry your product, you should be fine.

Allright. I guess if I used Methanol in a well ventilated area,
wearing a smog-filter and eye-protection the risks would be managable?

However that still leaves me with the inability to find any publicly sold
DCM. DiChloroMethane if I remember correcly?

Any chance that DCM could be substituted with another solvent that I CAN obtain,
like Ethanol, Acetone or Naphtha?



Going back to crude, ancient methods....Wouldn't making an Ethanolic Tincture of dried,
pulverised Daffodill bulbs & flowers, letting that sit for about 3 weeks & then filtering out the plant matter through a cloth not yield an Ethanolic solution of Galantamine? Or is Galantamine insoluble in Ethanol?

IF Galantamine is soluble in Ethanol, are there any toxins in Daffodill Bulbs & Flowers that
are also soluble in Ethanol?

 

[Vodsel]

I assume you meant Narcissus Confusus? (Since "Narcissus" is synonimous with "Daffodill" )

Yes, N. Confusus. That's how it's written in the original post and the quote above

Using a different base than the one provided in that extraction procedure should be okay if you want, as long as it can take the solution above the pKa of galantamine. And using a different solvent depends on galantamine freebase solubilities. These data are quite easy to find since galantamine is consistently used as a prescription drug.

And if your concern is safety of the extract for consumption, I'd say you're better off following a proper tek than just ingesting a crude plant extract. You want to narrow down the spectrum of your extract, not the other way around.

 

[SKA]

You were right. The PKA and solubility of Galantamine were easily found.

I found a PDF about Galantamine stating:

Solubility: fairly soluble in hot water (~ 31 mg/mL @ pH = 6); freely soluble in alcohol,
acetone, and chloroform; less soluble in benzene
pKa: 8.2

This would suggest even a simple hot water simmering of dried, pulverised Narcissus Confusus might get the job done. Also an Ethanolic tincture would work fine.

After some time the Daffodill pulp could be filtered out of the still hot water using a filter
to yield a fairly clean aquaeous solution of Galantamine. You could then either drink that or
you could slowly simmer it down untill most water has evaporated away, then leave the remaining syrup to further dry out in the air(in a dark, dry, but ventilated place) to end up with a crude Galantamine extract.

In case of making a N.Confusus Ethanolic tincture, you could let the tincture sit for minimally 3 days while regulairly agitating it. After a while you filter out the pulp and should have plenty of Galantamine dissolved in that Ethanol.

You could then let that Ethanol evaporate away untill a dry, crude Galantamine extract is left.

I wonder, since alcohol won't freeze in household freezer-temperatures;
Would putting a vessel containing an Ethanolic solution of Galantamine cause
the Galantamine to precipitate out of the solution & become easily separable from it?

 

[Vodsel]

This would suggest even a simple hot water simmering of dried, pulverised Narcissus Confusus might get the job done. Also an Ethanolic tincture would work fine.

Be careful, an ethanolic/methanolic crude extract may contain galantamine but will also contain a host of other compounds. That's why the extract was refined with further extraction procedures in the example I quoted. Beware specially of narcissus bulbs, many species are known to contain lycorine and that's quite toxic.

So no, I don't think you can obtain a fairly clean aqueous solution of galantamine just by simmering it in alcohol and then hot water. Please be safe.

 

[SKA]

This would suggest even a simple hot water simmering of dried, pulverised Narcissus Confusus might get the job done. Also an Ethanolic tincture would work fine.

Be careful, an ethanolic/methanolic crude extract may contain galantamine but will also contain a host of other compounds. That's why the extract was refined with further extraction procedures in the example I quoted. Beware specially of narcissus bulbs, many species are known to contain lycorine and that's quite toxic.

So no, I don't think you can obtain a fairly clean aqueous solution of galantamine just by simmering it in alcohol and then hot water. Please be safe.

Toxins. That's what I feared.
But about Narcissus confusus you said

Wild populations of N. confusus whole plant are reported to have 18 mg alkaloids per gram of dry weight (1,8% yield) where galantamine is the main compound (around 75%, 1,3% yield) the other alkaloids being haemanthamine, tazettine and N-formylnorgalantamine.

Now you're saying that the toxin Lycorine might be in N.Confusus' bulbs? Would it be safe to assume this Lycorine is ONLY found in N.Confusus' bulbs? Because in that case, just use all parts of the N.Confusus and avoid the bulbs and you should be safe from Lycorine.

As for those other Alkaloids present in N.Confusus, the ones I made bold in your quote,
I tried looking on google for any information on their toxicity, but could hardily
find any information on them at all.


If only I could find DCM for sale in a mortar & brick store around here,
I'd perform the extraction method you mentioned as it seems fairly
straightforward and simple.
I do know 1 online vendor, based in my country, that sells DCM, but I have
a gut feeling it may be risky ordering DCM from online vendors.
(Not to mention; It's very pricey too)

Is that concern grounded or am I wrong about that completely?

 

[Vodsel]

The extraction process I quoted re. N. Confusus does not mention lycorine present in the yield. It is quite safe to suppose that correctly ID'ed N. Confusus will not yield lycorine if a proper extraction method is followed. I was simply reminding you to be careful with both IDs and extraction procedures since you seemed to take too quickly the simple crude ethanol extraction route, and a rushed ID or a rough extraction might leave you with a toxic result.

And please, SKA, just do a bit of online research yourself before shooting a dozen questions here. I'm not a chemist nor a botanist, and it took me a few minutes to find online the information I've shared so far. I'm leaving attached a paper with detailed information about alkaloid types found in the narcissus family. There's a few suggestions about cultivars and wild species that appear to give positive results yielding galantamine type alkaloids with low or no occurrence of lycorine type alkaloids.

 

[SKA]

I did do online research but found surprisingly little on searching for "N.Confusus Alkaloids",
"N.Confusus Toxins" & "Galantamine extraction from N.Narcissus".

Actually one of the handfull of results google turned up was a link to this very thread

So I figured, since there are some knowledgable, capable & helpfull chemists known to frequent the Nexus, the only chance I'd have on learning more about extracting relatively pure, toxin-free Galantamine from N.Narcissus would be to ask people on this forum.

Thanks for the PDF, Vodsel.
Don't feel pressured to help me asnwer these questions. I was merely asking.
Perhaps someone else is willing & able to help me with my quest for Galantamine extraction?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Process for the isolation of galanthamine (galantamine extraction)

100 kg air-dried, comminuted bulbs of Narcissus pseudonarcissus “Carlton” is carefully mixed with 4 kg of sodium carbonate. The mixture is divided into three equal parts, and each is doused with 15 l special boiling-point gasoline 80/110. The mixtures are allowed to stand for 24 hours. The solvents are each renewed twice, collected, and evaporated to dryness in low vacuum. The extracts are placed in 2% aqueous sulfuric acid and adjusted to a pH of 4 with concentrated aqueous ammonia solution. Five extractions with diethyl ether follow. The aqueous phase is set to a pH of 9 with concentrated ammonia and extracted five times with diethyl ether. These ether fractions are collected, dried with sodium sulfate, and evaporated. 20 g of a slightly yellow, oily residue is obtained, which is recrystallized from hot isopropanol. 10 g of white galanthamine base having a melting point of 129-130° C. is obtained. Only one peak is visible in the HPLC chromatogram

US20020028802A1 - Process for the isolation of galanthamine - Google Patents

The subject matter of the present invention concerns a process for the isolation of the alkaloid galanthamine; the galanthamine itself which has been produced according to this process; the use of the galanthamine thus produced in galenic preparations; and the galanthamine thus produced for...

www.google.com

 

[starway6]

I have long been interrested in Galantamine as a supplement to aid
vivid and lucid dreaming, but in my country this isn't an OTC drug.

Since Snowdrops and Daffodills contain Galantamine and are so abundant
around here I was wondering:

Would it be do-able for a kitchen chemist to extract relatively pure
Galantamine from Snowdrops or Daffodills?

Or do Daffodills and/or Snowdrops (or any other natural Galantamine source)
contain enough Galantamine for a managable, brewable amount of plant-
matter to be active as a dream enhancer?

Which leads me to the following question:
Do Daffodills & Snowdrops contain any toxins or irritants? ( AKA would
it be safe to drink a hot water tea brewed from Daffodills and/or Snowdrops?)

Even if I could get Galantamine OTC, I bet it is infinitely cheaper to extract
it yourself from abundant, easily grown, winterhardy flowers. And fun.


Anyway, a Galantamine from Snowdrop/Daffodill-extraction Tek would be great.
Anyone who can help?

You can order galantaminevery easily its leagle!
Just google up ..[dreamamins]...dream supliments!and order it on line.. its a great lucid dream supliment!