HPBCD and rue seeds

[Ernestine]

Hello. I have been bewildered by ava69's convoluted and meandering threads here and elsewhere on HPBCD complexed DMT. The idea of a sublingual dose that provides a slightly longer experience is intriguing but i cannot tell if it is 'for real' amongst all the hyperbole, self references and off tangents.

Has any real other person or someone they know, complexed DMT with HPBCD and tried it along with maoi/rima and found it an interesting experience?

 

[dragonrider]

I'm being very diplomatic here, when i say that ava69 was a notorious bullshitter.

Maybe this time he was onto something, but i wouldn't count on it.

 

[Jacubey]

I have HPBCD and I've gotta say, it does wonders for the taste and ease on the stomach if nothing else. I haven't tried it besides a couple of attempts with sublingual harmine, so only minimal amounts were ingested... If I can confirm the safety profile, I'll try taking some of my other freebase chems with it and see if it produces less nausea.

It was used for administering steroids and other hgh related things that were made illegal, so it's hard to tell if it's safe. It's not used for anything these days, as far as I know.

There is definitely reason to believe that it improves bioavailability and its safe

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/scientific-guideline/questions-answers-cyclodextrins-used-excipients-medicinal-products-human-use_en.pdf

 

[Ernestine]

Thank you both. I suppose in the end there is only one way to know...

 

[L-dreamer]

I have complexed DMT with HPBCD for sublingual use. In short I found it the most harmless, fun, and nausea free way to do oral DMT. I don't care about the drama surrounding him, it worked. If you do the whole sublingual dmt+harmine and oral THH shtick, it will give you a memorable experience

edit: I also want to add that I did not notice a lack of nausea when complexing dmt or harmalas with HPBCD that reached the stomach

 

[Ernestine]

Thank you L-dreamer. Did you ever try it with rue seeds or full spectrum extract?

 

[L-dreamer]

Did you ever try it with rue seeds or full spectrum extract?

I have not used sublingual DMT with rue seeds, and I don't think mixing rue seeds with HBPCD will do anything for this. Even if you don't use THH, sublingual DMT and any kind of harmala form will have a fast onset and will not drag on more than an hour regarding the visionary effect, though harmala effects will obviously linger if you take an increased dosage of them. Sublingual harmalas also don't come with the nausea of rue seeds

 

[starway7]

Syrian Rue actives.. ground up..or in hole seed form...or extract...works extreemly well sublingually!.. ..it virtually falls through the oral tissue and directly into the blood stream within minutes of holding it under toung..or bucally..

Using HPBCD with rue isnt needed....rue by itself... works great sublingually! or in a tea..or just oral capsuls...

L. Dreamer ...you say AVAs ... sublingual spice HPBCD...combo worked for you?

Ive watched AVA69s posts for several months.. Following AVAs instructions ..

I bought A bottle of HPBCD and a bottle of Liftmode THH...AND and tryed ... the method exactly step by step three seperate times..and...

IT DID NOT WORK!! [[I would have loved for the method to work!!..but it didnt..]]

There were a few others who tryed his sublingual method and results were not overwelming!

So... L dreamer ...you are very lucky that it worked for you i would like to know what you did different that i should have done??

It possible my THH was bunk?...and yours good quality?...


AVA seemed like a sincere person... ...most of the time...but the last post i had with him 2 or three weeks ago..i brought up the scientific reports that questioned the saftey of ...

HPBCD.. use...because of the news of ..[possible hearing damage from HPBCD use]...
...and ..[ nice dr Jeckel .... turned into ... [mean Mr Hyde!
OLD.. AVA.. got very irratated when i brought this up !

With all the .. super success stories.. ava claimed to have with the sublingual method...it strange how very few people claimed real success with it?


what ever happened to some really sharp people.. i remembered on nexus like ...Gibrin...Universalcannon...Jamie..and more... they really knew their chemistry i learned much from them about extraction..

 

[Jacubey]

With all the .. super success stories.. ava claimed to have with the sublingual method...it strange how very few people claimed real success with it?

The hpbcd complexing definitely works, and we have good reason to expect it increases bioavailability too.

I have personally tried his method 4 times. I found the method he mentions to be totally unworkable for performing the complexing. I have a post somewhere where I explain my method. It works very well.

Once I have a good complex, I find that it is way too sweet and causes me to salivate heavily and I am unable to absorb my dose properly. Every attempt has wound up with me swallowing most of the resulting complex.

Edit: found the post.

One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors - The Psychedelic Experience - Shroomery Message Board

4-24-2022 Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.shroomery.org

• Measure out 1:7 harmine:2hpbcd
• Place contents in small glass vessel
• Tilt the glass 45 degrees
• Gently agitate so the materials gather in a pile where the base and side of the glass meet
• Set the glass down gently, so the pile stays together[/li]
• Fill 10cc syringe with 1-2ml of boiling water from an electric kettle (I do not have any pipettes handy)
• Fill the remaining 8-9ml with air. This will serve as a cusion to help get individual drops out
• Add one drop boiling water per 10mg of freebase material (harmine only in my case), directly on the pile
• Using a small lab spoon (perhaps even a dab pick), mash the materials for several minutes
• once the mixture seems homogenous and is appropriately sticky, assume complete and administer sublingually

Also, seriously, take it easy on the water.

EDIT: Traegar has gone through the trouble of editing a months old post reply on the shroomery to inform me that my complexing there did not have enough water. Perhaps I went too easy on the water.

 

[L-dreamer]

L. Dreamer ...you say AVAs ... sublingual spice HPBCD...combo worked for you?

Ive watched AVA69s posts for several months.. Following AVAs instructions ..

I bought A bottle of HPBCD and a bottle of Liftmode THH...AND and tryed ... the method exactly step by step three seperate times..and...

IT DID NOT WORK!! [[I would have loved for the method to work!!..but it didnt..]]

There were a few others who tryed his sublingual method and results were not overwelming!

So... L dreamer ...you are very lucky that it worked for you i would like to know what you did different that i should have done??

There is a very simple way to see if the HPBCD you got complexed with DMT. First of all, the only important role of HPBCD is that it allows DMT to absorb sublingually, nothing more and nothing else. As such you don't need to go to the DMT acetate route which is a bit more time-consuming and I have not seen many people using it now, only older posts.
Coming back to it, you know that the DMT complexed with the HPBCD if, when applied sublignually, it stings a lot. It's like an intense burning menthol sensation (I suspect DMT when it absorbs in the stomach or lower parts, causes the same irritation which is translated to nausea, but I don't want to debate about this). HPBCD by itself, or when complexed with harmine, or THH, does not sting at all the mouth floor. But complex it with DMT, and your mouth floor will have fireworks on it. The intense stinging will make you salivate like hell, and as such, to keep the juice under the tongue, I put the juice in a little cotton that I press on the mouth for 8 minutes, while the saliva builds up, After that I spit everything. I posted in ava's thread about my experiences, I won't repeat the details.
Ava's "protocol", with 300 mg of THH orally, and after 45 minutes of sublingual 30-40 mg of harmine + 90 mg of DMT complexed with 900 mg of HPBCD worked for me. If it didn't work for some people, it's because they did not keep it on the mouth floor long enough, using the cotton bit helps a lot. And if we did not hear about more people using HBPCD to make sublingual DMT, it's because also it is very hard to find, and I don't care about discussing where to find it. My THH is not from liftmode, and the role of THH is to give a more visionary aspect to the DMT visuals and more euphoria.
regarding the possibly toxcity issues, I read the literature and personally I did not found anything to worry about. I won't turn this thread into an ava defense thread, I will just gladly answer only questions regarding the route of administration. The method works for me and it is the sweet intermediary spot between the fast intense experience of vaping and the gut wrenching and bedriddening pharmahuasca.
Jacubey if you ever want to give this a go again, try the cotton but to hold the liquid down to the mouth floor for 7-8 minutes without spitting or swallowing the saliva.

 

[shroombee]

And if we did not hear about more people using HBPCD to make sublingual DMT, it's because also it is very hard to find, and I don't care about discussing where to find it.

HPBCD is hard to find. 2-HPBCD is easy. Ava said the 2-HPBCD works as well as the HPBCD.

I agree with not making this an Ava defense thread. I'm only commenting on the availability of the 2-HPBCD.

 

[Jacubey]

And if we did not hear about more people using HBPCD to make sublingual DMT, it's because also it is very hard to find, and I don't care about discussing where to find it.

HPBCD is hard to find. 2-HPBCD is easy. Ava said the 2-HPBCD works as well as the HPBCD.

I should probably mention that all of my experiments with HPBCD have been with 2-HPBCD. Just make sure you adjust your ratios appropriately based on what you use.

Jacubey if you ever want to give this a go again, try the cotton but to hold the liquid down to the mouth floor for 7-8 minutes without spitting or swallowing the saliva.

I'll try this next time

 

[Voidmatrix]

Smart call on the cotton method. I bailed on this administration method because I would salivate too much to keep the complexed DMT under my tongue.

One love

 

[L-dreamer]

I bailed on this administration method because I would salivate too much to keep the complexed DMT under my tongue.

good luck to you and jacubey, just use the small amount that gets the entire liquid in it, you want the maximum saturation
and don't forget the sublingual maoi, that could be whatever is your preferred from harmine or harmaline, over 30-35 mg does the job

 

[Jacubey]

I intend to test the RoA with harmaline, since it has distinct effects and I have a ton of it... I'd rather not waste DMT while perfecting the method. I caught covid yesterday, but as soon as I'm better I'll try this again. I really hope we can get it to work, because it sounds great.

Also, I went back and read your trip report. I wonder if the notable lack of nausea is because THH is a weak SRI. I wonder if its activity in the stomach is preventing the serotonin receptor interactions that cause nausea.

 

[Ernestine]

Did you ever try it with rue seeds or full spectrum extract?

I have not used sublingual DMT with rue seeds, and I don't think mixing rue seeds with HBPCD will do anything for this. Even if you don't use THH, sublingual DMT and any kind of harmala form will have a fast onset and will not drag on more than an hour regarding the visionary effect, though harmala effects will obviously linger if you take an increased dosage of them. Sublingual harmalas also don't come with the nausea of rue seeds

Thanks. I understand that there is no need for hpbcd with the seeds as the harmala alkaloids are absorbed well through the mucosa already. There is no nausea with buccal ground rue seeds.

 

[L-dreamer]

if there are still (2) people that are willing to try this method out with HPBCD, take the sublingual harmala 15 minutes before you apply the DMT.
The thing I care is for someone else to confirm if the visionary experience is different from the other methods.

 

[RowRowRow YourBoat]

Are you more interested in the HPBCD/DMT side of it, or the THH part? I also don't get the point of the sublingual rigamarole for harmalas. Was there a reason to not take those orally?

I thought the sublingual DMT route of administration with slightly different onset, different duration, and repeated dosing potential was the actual nugget of truth in there versus dramatic trip reports. Idk, there was so much going on in that thread I'm not even sure what specifically was supposed to give good experiences and what was just noise, pretty much seemed like they always got off on whatever they took no matter the method.

I've got the HPBCD but never actually tried it for anything after following that thread further and losing interest.

 

[L-dreamer]

The point of sublingual harmalas is to avoid completely the nausea associated with typical pharmahuasca. You don't have to think about purging at all. The other part is as you said, it allows for a completely different experience that lacks the imprint of harmine or harmaline, and it allows THH to basically run the stage. I tried typical pharma with harmine + THH, and it's not that diferent at all from just oral DMT+ harmine in my experience. But trying THH with sublingual harmalas and sublingual DMT, there is a complete lack of any fear, dysphoria, or other negative feelings associated with pharmahuasca, even if that has THH in it. It is simply a very different and very welcoming headpspace.
Sublingual HPBCD+DMT absorbs very fast, you literally feel it passing through your gums and jaw vasculature. and if it's tried, the harmalas should be used 10-15 minutes before the DMT so that you get a good enough MAO inhibition.

 

[RowRowRow YourBoat]

Ok, thank you for spelling out the points of interest for me. Nausea is something I tend to forget about with harmalas since I dose them alongside limonene which puts a stop to purging for me. The part about the different qualitative experience does have my attention though.

I have had everything on hand to do my own THH conversion for a while but never got around to it. It is reacting now.

I can't say I won't get cold feet when it comes to actually testing the full protocol, but at least I'm heading in the right direction. I think I'll have to figure out THH somewhat before I could say if the route of administration specifically is making a difference.