I n f i n i t e C o n s c i o u s n e s s

[FranLover]

Arguments for the proof of an infinite system of creation, out of of which co dependantly arises infinite consciousness in this world.

Stream of consciousness...follow me on this one, please read to the end.

1# All evidence seems to indicate that the cosmos is infinite.

2# In the here & now we experience an infinite reality. A man freezing to death in the snow has literally happened about a billion times or probably more! Every life is exactly the same just with superficial differences (but a tiny bend in an infinite timeline in infinite time will make an enormous shift in direction.) The idea here is that the lion dies but then the lion lives again through the cubs, and then again and again an infinite number of times. Take just a smoker for example, smoking a pack a day for 40 years, how many times as he smoked or will smoke? As long as he was able to, therefore an infinite number, an infinite will to smoke; infinite will for sex. This is the fact of craving, which is how the System runs.

And if it stops, like with a giant meteor, it just picks right up again, more creation. Go from dinosaurs to humans, higher state of consciousness, of A w a r e n e s s. More subtelty, more refined, more capacity. But underlying this all is...infinity...and suffering.


Just by looking at the fact of how humans live infinitley (as to say, repetetive at blow out proportions) and seeing the logarithym clearly present in the fact, then it isnt even necesary to know about dna to know that the system of creation functions as a Producer of Infinity; it produces endless forms of energy, of spirit, of consciousness, of matter, based on System. All math, all physics, all biology inherint in the universe is but an expression of the system. But it is a vast part of its expression because as below so above. Its very subtle. So subtle. Because its obvious yet not clear. Its like an ecoded joke. We are a product of this Producer of Infinity, of loop. This is a fact. How do we deal with this fact knowing that we are gonna repeat everything that has already been done, every action and reaction, every desire, anything and everything has all been done, yet suffering is at an all time high. So what do we do when all has been done? You do something new, right? But thats already been done. The new now will become old later and will repeat itself. For this reason we use grand strategy, seeing every pitfall on the way, and finding the exact way to approach the issue, which is that


if this logarythim is how reality works then it is extremely clear, beyond the scope of doubt, that the only reasonable way to live is to promote love and good works and decrease suffering, because then that will repeat itself. Thats to say, the logarythm would run smoother on love. The world would be heaven on earth literally if the world was ruled from the authority of silence, emptiness, love. Everyone would have everything they need. No evil action would be done cause all would understand the infinite repercutions of evil. And we feed the world with love to the point it becomes fairy tale level like, completely pure and natural and its a love so great it starts to permeate the universe, and we all win the game. We all won. the infinite logarythm now runs on love infitely! Thats the point! If a logarythm has no suffering then its perfect! You create a perfect logarythm then, infinitely self sustaining (as it already is) on love! (as it naturally is and was meant to be.) And then we win. Its the only way to win. Isnt this crazy. Isnt it amazing that we can have cracked the code? Do you see what these other dimensions are now? They are not much different than this one.

All this has already been explained by the buddah more wisely, and exemplified in the lives of all great brahmans, holy men, jesus, you know. This is nothing new.

But how do we live knowing this is an infinite consciousness, how do we start the shift...how to promote this knowledge so that people can know that this is how you win? And how do we live with this facr of infinite love universe consciousness knowing that it could be a reality but wont be in our lifetime and maybe never?

We enter higher states of consciousness, live out that bliss, and express it in the world as good acts. But how do we promote this idea...?

Heaven on earth, brothers and sisters all united eternally, for ever, perfect, feeding off love like off the air and the sun. The elements could never defeat a mankind that is united. There is no grander strategy than this for mankind. This is the Alpha and the Omega. This is the only way for mankind to be succesful so that we create a pure land on earth, then we all reach nirvana at death

thats my rap, thank you infinitely haha ♡

 

[Jees]

That is a beautiful song/prayer FranLover!

I'm afraid it's a trademark design by nature codex to keep us divided and concurring. It's a very nice plan to see that changed, but nature (like in embedded reflexes) is a touch competition.

For example: nature simply loves to die-off the weaker ones be that in pain, to let only the strong succeed. Just try to beat that without scars, try to let your species adopt into weakness constitutions without scars. This is one of my gripes that human ethics are truly in war with nature's ethics. The 10 commandments where early attempts (religions and politics following) for human ethics against raw nature's way. If one thinks nature has no ethics well then just binge watch natgeo docu's that's about what I mean.

This is how I read your post, some kind of 10 commandments, a repulse of who we are, a dream to be different than designed, a sort of self-hate. And I am with you, I hate how nature deals with things, I hate pain and cold and sick and stress and fights...

...The elements could never defeat a mankind that is united...

I think your proposition to breed-out things we don't like can truly work to extend, can lead to a better life, but can never beat nature nor will provide us a hand on the steering wheel of meteors coming our way. I think the elements are stone cold toward what we do, all the while in the unity field we are the meteors itself.

Yeah my song is not so nice, I'm sorry, but I turned my song into power for the better somehow and in opposition of depression. Somewhat like positive power out of fatalism. This is something that for me is reachable, immediately. But that is just me..

 

[FranLover]

I already heard these thoughts of yours Jees and I see where you are coming from, but the evidence doesnt seem to point to a Nature is cruel certainty. I understand the perspctive from which it can seem cruel (Oh no, the whale is playing with the seal before it eats it!) but I ultimately dont think its cruel. Cruel is to enslave people, to factory produce living souls to eat their meat, fanatical nazism, etc... I mean, I've seen Natgeo, and its got nothing on the History channel. Nature is not cruel, man is cruel. The world is alright, the only problem is man. This is the birds eye view. I argue that this heaven on earth is not in opposition to how we were designed, but that in fact we were designed to be peaceful.

thank you so much for the fast reply ♡ have a nice day

"The world in general, Kaccaayana, grasps after systems and is imprisoned by dogmas.[5] But he[6] does not go along with that system-grasping, that mental obstinacy and dogmatic bias, does not grasp at it, does not affirm: 'This is my self.'[7] He knows without doubt or hesitation that whatever arises is merely dukkha[8] that what passes away is merely dukkha and such knowledge is his own, not depending on anyone else. This, Kaccaayana, is what constitutes right view.

"'Everything exists,'[9] this is one extreme [view]; 'nothing exists,' this is the other extreme. Avoiding both extremes the Tathaagata[10] teaches a doctrine of the middle: Conditioned by ignorance are the formations... [as SN 12.10]... So there comes about the arising of this entire mass of suffering. But from the complete fading away and cessation of ignorance there comes the cessation of the formations, from the cessation of the formations comes the cessation of consciousness... So there comes about the complete cessation of this entire mass of suffering."

If there is a pot of water which is turbid, stirred up and muddy, and this pot is put into a dark place, then a man with a normal faculty of sight could not properly recognize and see the image of his own face. In the same way, when one's mind is possessed by doubt, overpowered by doubt, then one cannot properly see the escape from doubt which has arisen; then one does not properly understand one's own welfare, nor that of another, nor that of both; and also texts memorized a long time ago do not come into one's mind, not to speak of those not memorized.

— SN 46:55

THE ABANDONMENT OF SCEPTICAL DOUBT
There is a strong man who, with his luggage in hand and well armed, travels through a wilderness in company. If robbers see him even from afar, they will take flight. Crossing safely the wilderness and reaching a place of safety, he will rejoice in his safe arrival. Similarly a monk, seeing that sceptical doubt is a cause of great harm, cultivates the six things that are its antidote, and gives up doubt. Just as that strong man, armed and in company, taking as little account of the robbers as of the grass on the ground, will safely come out of the wilderness to a safe place; similarly a monk, having crossed the wilderness of evil conduct, will finally reach the state of highest security, the deathless realm of Nibbana. Therefore the Blessed One compared the abandonment of sceptical doubt to reaching a place of safety.

 

[Jees]

Thank you for the reply, we certainly disagree on a few points there but that's okay I guess.
Wish you a fine day as well

 

[Jin]

I really have no idea whether the human species as a whole will ever reach utopia , or something like that but individuals will and have always been reaching utopia

Individuals like Buddha , Jesus , Moses , einstein , they all found a way to reach this platform of love , devotion , intelligence ..........they left messages in one way or the other

Perhaps its individuals who will do this ,

 

[Tony6Strings]

"People are people, and they are basically bad."
-Frank Zappa

 

[Jupitor]

Thank you Franny. That was great.

 

[Jees]

... individuals will and have always been reaching utopia...

I agree, my best spiritual teachers did not teach by words, but by presenting an example. Dharma doesn't sell well on me lately, shines too much polish for real life road use.

..."People are people, and they are basically bad."
-Frank Zappa

People come as they are configured by nature with the ability to deny that. Underestimating that as a hardware given creates a swamp grounds for whatever magnificent spiritual castle is build on top of it.

Instead of condemning my greed, false fears, etc, .. as bad-things-must-go, I embrace them, and work from there.
I can't transform or evolve in things I take a distance from and I don't want to fuel out of or rely on consciousness principles to get that job done, I wanna do things hands down, not on the base of something I don't understand.

This is another approach than the suggested OP "Just don't do it so it will dry out and go away & stay away" theorem, it might work but I fear things will pop up in one or other form unexpectedly.

People must choose their way in how to deal with things they like to be changed, we all differ. (Infinite) consciousness does spark my interest, I meet it in travels (I think), but..... I don't understand it, I go back to practice as this is what works for me most directly down here in the dusty realm.

 

[FranLover]

"People are people, and they are basically bad."
-Frank Zappa

After reading a biography of Zappa it makes sense why he thought and said things like that :d He was not a nice, selfless person, not enligthened, not on the path. People speak of themselves. Thats why we say "Because your heart is beautiful, to you everything appears beautiful." Ancient saying.
They think its impossible for humans to be selfless merely because they are selfish. I find it quite limiting (and in the past I have been limited by these views and acordingly suffered) Take for example all the atheist with their scientism, they dont think that anything that they have not experienced exists. they deny the existence of things they dont comprehend. Thats the very definition of hubris. They elevate themselves at the cost of not looking at things as they are.

I had a geography professor as a kid. This guy thought he knew it all, fan of the Beatles, had hitchhiked through south america and thought he had seen it all, and with that attitude declared "When you get older you dont stop jerking off. You never stop jerking off." Because that was his reality, he asumed it to be the reality of everyone else. While declaring that, what he actually does is declare his lack of knowledge of the path, of the unseen, of the bodhisatvas and ancient knowledge. He is declaring "my reality is limited to this; my own life and my own shortcomings, these I project onto the world. If anyone aspires for more in life, they are hopeless idealists, living in fairy tale land. The ultimate reality is my limited reality, everything else is propaganda, unrealistic, not apt for real life."

 

[FranLover]

Thank you Franny. That was great.

♡♡♡

 

[Jees]

Franlover I think you have the heart at a right place, that dharma and entheogens have enabled you to re-evaluate ego and urges to better standards etc.. You deserve credits for this and I'm the first to congratulate!

When you write
I n f i n i t e C o n s c i o u s n e s s
in that way,
it hits home big time and many people here, being dissolved by times, know what you're after. It is beautiful to sing, pray and write about these things.
For this, thank you very much

Please brace:
but when it comes to raw suffering provided by nature (suffering you haven't witnessed first hand and which you in general and by default promote as a mankind only trademark), sorry, then pompous spiritual vanity comes to my poor mind and please stop blaming it's always self inflicted due being non enlightened, you would make things even worse, there are aspects in life where silence is the only fitting answer.

These paragraphs are admittedly judgments on my side, as a human I abide in many limitations also and speak my own pompous thoughts from there.

 

[FranLover]

Franlover I think you have the heart at a right place, that dharma and entheogens have enabled you to re-evaluate ego and urges to better standards etc.. You deserve credits for this and I'm the first to congratulate!

When you write
I n f i n i t e C o n s c i o u s n e s s
in that way,
it hits home big time and many people here, being dissolved by times, know what you're after. It is beautiful to sing, pray and write about these things.
For this, thank you very much

thank you

Please brace:
but when it comes to raw suffering provided by nature (suffering you haven't witnessed first hand and which you in general and by default promote as a mankind only trademark)

nono, as I understand it all beings suffer, in all universes and dimensions.

Suffering is the realization of attachment to life (adoration of life.) This is evidenced in all cases where people make the conscious decision to live instead of commiting suicide, because each second of breath is purposeful in and of itself. (ei, Victor Frankln's
Man's Search for Meaning, etc,. ad infinitum)

sorry, then pompous spiritual vanity comes to my poor mind and please stop blaming it's always self inflicted due being non enlightened, you would make things even worse, there are aspects in life where silence is the only fitting answer.

how?
(looking at things as they are, one doesnt blame fire for burning, one simply removes one's hand from the fire)

your proposition to breed-out things we don't like can truly work to extend, can lead to a better life, but can never beat nature nor will provide us a hand on the steering wheel of meteors coming our way. I think the elements are stone cold toward what we do, all the while in the unity field we are the meteors itself.

You dont win by beating nature but my becoming nature.

Being a world focused on the things that matter would advance science (protecting the planet, detecting meteors, perfect food and shelter distribution.) This mastery in administration is called mindfulness and is part of being adjacent with nature.

The evidence clearly shows the elements are not stone cold towards what we do, first because they are all inside of us and so are not seperate from us. Second, because it rains and the plants fruit, and the rivers replenish, and as the river flows food in the water circulate for the fishes. On a macro scale, the whole cosmos is orderly, made precisley to sustain life and create life. There is no evidence for the notion of a an uncaring cosmos.


I found this post on a thread titled Money Turns You Into A Psychopath (Money Turns You Into A Psychopath - Science - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus)


thymamai:

I wouldn't be so quick to balance my faith in humanity on the hallmark examples of it's dregs. I've gone a long way enduring the hard lessons of basing my conceptions of people direct from bad experiences with them. Reminded each time of what variety there is, how truly vast and diverse and glorious the fruits of this world are, of our race as a whole. It is a spectacle and an entertaining one, but no more an accurate or final verdict of ourŕ species as any entertainment put on real tv or the history or nature channels.

 

[Jees]

Thanks for the reasoning. We could ping pong with further thoughts but I would like to rest my side of discrepancies at this point.

I think arguments are build largely on the examples one has in mind, have different examples and gain different arguments.

Back to I n f i n i t e C o n s c i o u s n e s s

 

[Era/is]

... it's always self inflicted due being non enlightened, you would make things even worse, there are aspects in life where silence is the only fitting answer.

Silence after silence,
In fact there is no silence, because our consciousness in it's inifinty does not stop a moment.
The same is for our unconscioussness, which conceals in us the most remote aspects of our being.

 

[Icyseeker]

I honestly think that a pure utopia that you have envisioned would never exist due to humanities need for change and growth. It could only exist in the first place if everyone somehow acquired the insane will power of Pre-enlightned Jesus or Buddha and that is a long shot.

Now after I have have dampened the mood with my opinion I do think that incorporating loving kindness that Buddha taught is the first step to changing the world to something that functions better as a cohesive whole.

A clarification that has stuck with me recently is that Buddha stated that life contained suffering and not that life was suffering. I prefer to view suffering as a necessary reality on the path to nirvana. With out it how can we rise above the muck and bloom like a lotus. It is the very fact that we have a expiration date that allows for deep spirituality.

 

[hug46]

After reading a biography of Zappa it makes sense why he thought and said things like that Very happy He was not a nice, selfless person, not enligthened, not on the path.

From what i have read about Frank Zappa, the music i have heard of his and various interviews, i have always thought that he was a fairly switched on dude. But i guess it all depends on how one translates as to what enlightened actually means.

 

[dragonrider]

After reading a biography of Zappa it makes sense why he thought and said things like that Very happy He was not a nice, selfless person, not enligthened, not on the path.

From what i have read about Frank Zappa, the music i have heard of his and various interviews, i have always thought that he was a fairly switched on dude. But i guess it all depends on how one translates as to what enlightened actually means.

Zappa was at his best when he wasn't cynical.

He was both a brilliant musician and a cynic.
When the cynic gave way to the musician, he could do magic.

If he would have worked on his cynicism, he surely would have been an even better musician than he already was.

Great music comes from the heart. Not the mind. The mind is merely an instrument, a medium. The mind provides the language. It is the heart that makes the poetry.

 

[hug46]

He was both a brilliant musician and a cynic.
When the cynic gave way to the musician, he could do magic.If he would have worked on his cynicism, he surely would have been an even better musician than he already was.

Maybe he would have been a better musician but he wouldn't have been Frank if he wasn't cynical. I would say that he was intelligent and heavily opinionated rather than cynical. And if he was, it was justified. This is the guy that encouraged people to vote and went before congress to speak against the PMRC.

Great music comes from the heart. Not the mind. The mind is merely an instrument, a medium. The mind provides the language. It is the heart that makes the poetry.

It may be dependent on what type of music one is listening to but i think that the mind and intellectualism have a massive effect on how good a piece of music is. There is quote from someone talking about Pink Floyd that i will always remember "Gilmour made you enjoy it and Waters made you think about it" (or words to that effect and i certainly don't discount Rick Wright et al's contributions). Cos, lets face it, Pink Floyd were comparatively pretty crappy when they reformed with no Waters in the line up.

 

[LongTimeWaiting]

how do we start the shift...

It has to start with those educating the young. If the school system promoted more of "us" and "we" instead of "you" and "them", people would realize we are all one.

I agree the universe is infinite, we are part of the infinity. It's one gigantic connected organism. We are a part of the universe. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, therefore, we existed when the universe first started and we will exist to its very end, just in a different form.

The universe relies on consciousness to exist, without it, the universe is nothing. It's obvious to us that we are all one because we've experienced it. Others who have not have a hard time believing it. But, if you instill such a thought from the beginning of the youth's development, it will be taken seriously.

I used to think the universe was so massive nothing I did would matter. I'm just a spec, but without me, an observer, a conscious being, the universe wouldn't be here. I am insanely important. We all are. Without us, there will never be a universe. The universe doesn't make consciousness, consciousness makes the universe.

 

[Era/is]

how do we start the shift...

It has to start with those educating the young. If the school system promoted more of "us" and "we" instead of "you" and "them", people would realize we are all one.

I agree the universe is infinite, we are part of the infinity. It's one gigantic connected organism. We are a part of the universe. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, therefore, we existed when the universe first started and we will exist to its very end, just in a different form.

The universe relies on consciousness to exist, without it, the universe is nothing. It's obvious to us that we are all one because we've experienced it. Others who have not have a hard time believing it. But, if you instill such a thought from the beginning of the youth's development, it will be taken seriously.

I used to think the universe was so massive nothing I did would matter. I'm just a spec, but without me, an observer, a conscious being, the universe wouldn't be here. I am insanely important. We all are. Without us, there will never be a universe. The universe doesn't make consciousness, consciousness makes the universe.

Nice ideas, but are You sure that matter cannot be created?

There are there are so many theories, including that matter is alive, composed of primordial beings/entities that we define atoms. Different in their 'charge' (+ and -), they may be able to copulate and thus contribute to the expansion of materiality in immateriality.

If so, it is not in a bigbang that everything will have been created out of nothing (notihing?:lol: ), but progressively the elementary entities would multiply by will and attraction.