I think I've created a supramolecular gel with DMT/NMT

[BloodyOath]

Not sure if this is the right area to post. My extraction is acting like a supramolecular gel. I've done some research and can't find anything. This is a complete accident as I'm a newbie. I have had spouts of hepatic encephalopathy and went way overboard with everything. Over correcting then the reverse and god knows what I did but this shit is fascinating.
The clear fluid is water, not Shellite (well, technically Shellite as well but a very small amount). I thought It needed to be salted out or watered down so ended up filling about 10lL worth of vessels before I figured out what's going on. From what I can gather the DMT and NMT are locked in a 3d matrix with the Shellite There is zero Shellite odour until you break it with lye. That suggests the Shellite is in the middle of matrix. When I pipette into a vessel it feels like it physically locks in or something. The stream never breaks from the pipette to the vessel you are squirting it into. 1 drop in a buck turns the whole bucket of water into one solid moving body of water. It moves around in the vessel as one body of water and doesn't slosh around. My mind obviously goes to new ways of administration but also possibly oil clean up and many more uses my mind can't think of. No doubt I'm making a fool of myself and this is a normal thing but I seriously couldn't find any supramolecular gels made with DMT and/or NMT.

 

[Transform]

Not sure if this is the right area to post. My extraction is acting like a supramolecular gel. I've done some research and can't find anything. This is a complete accident as I'm a newbie. I have had spouts of hepatic encephalopathy and went way overboard with everything. Over correcting then the reverse and god knows what I did but this shit is fascinating.View attachment 111583
The clear fluid is water, not Shellite (well, technically Shellite as well but a very small amount). I thought It needed to be salted out or watered down so ended up filling about 10lL worth of vessels before I figured out what's going on. From what I can gather the DMT and NMT are locked in a 3d matrix with the Shellite There is zero Shellite odour until you break it with lye. That suggests the Shellite is in the middle of matrix. When I pipette into a vessel it feels like it physically locks in or something. The stream never breaks from the pipette to the vessel you are squirting it into. 1 drop in a buck turns the whole bucket of water into one solid moving body of water. It moves around in the vessel as one body of water and doesn't slosh around. My mind obviously goes to new ways of administration but also possibly oil clean up and many more uses my mind can't think of. No doubt I'm making a fool of myself and this is a normal thing but I seriously couldn't find any supramolecular gels made with DMT and/or NMT.

What exactly have you done? That looks like a mess....


from: First real-time visualization of nanofiber self-assembly, uncovering key steps in the formation of supramolecular gels

Interesting hypothesis, but we need more details regarding exactly what you did in your extraction up to this point. Is it an acacia extraction you've been doing? What reagents/materials/solvents/temperatures/proportions have you been using?

I'll move this thread to the appropriate section, however - the one you've chosen is specifically for published science papers.

 

[BloodyOath]

[ Tryptammonium Ion (DMT/NMT) ] ==> Protonated by Acetic/Fumaric Acid || (Dense N-H···O Hydrogen Bonding Networks)[ Fumarate / Acetate Linkers ] ==> Rigid Interlocking Bridges || (Divalent Metal Coordination)[ Magnesium Ions (Mg2+) ] ==> Cross-linked Ionic Mesh || (Water Stolen via High-Concentration NaCl)[ Kinetically Trapped Gel-Like Aggregate ]
That is the Google AI breakdown and it confirmed it hasn't been done. The shellite evaps off leaving you with the gel. Just need to get rid of the magnesium I think.
I've been seeing a lot of that rainbow light you get when you close your eyes really hard. Wondered what was going on lol

 

[Transform]

[ Tryptammonium Ion (DMT/NMT) ] ==> Protonated by Acetic/Fumaric Acid || (Dense N-H···O Hydrogen Bonding Networks)[ Fumarate / Acetate Linkers ] ==> Rigid Interlocking Bridges || (Divalent Metal Coordination)[ Magnesium Ions (Mg2+) ] ==> Cross-linked Ionic Mesh || (Water Stolen via High-Concentration NaCl)[ Kinetically Trapped Gel-Like Aggregate ]
That is the Google AI breakdown and it confirmed it hasn't been done. The shellite evaps off leaving you with the gel. Just need to get rid of the magnesium I think.

OK, but could you stretch that to you typing out what you've actually done? As before, this means we need to know:

• materials
  
• solvents
  
• reagents
  
• volumes
  
• proportions
  
• temperatures

in order to be able to take this seriously.

But judging by the summary, how do you know that's not simply magnesium fumarate? How did the DMT/NMT get into the mixture?

 

[BloodyOath]

As I said above, I have Encephalopathy so the steps were very erratic. Ok, first of all it was Acacia Acuminata typical variety, 20g narrow phylodes and 20g of narrow bark. I used Diggers Shellite, Borsa Shellite, Borsa 30% acetic vinegar, 200g fumaric acid, about 80g ascorbic acid, maybe 1L of 10% cleaning vinegar, around 300g table salt, around 150g epsom salt. Vessels were one stirrers and one with a seedling tray heat mat taped around a gl45 bottle. I believe the max temp of the mat is 40 degrees C. There were phases where it was heated higher and at one point the shellite got to boiling but from my foggy memory, it didn't start happening then but very well could have. I thought I had created a substance like what is in baby diapers that can absorb up to 800x the water or something but with more research apparently it's not

 

[Transform]

You do know you have to add a base, such as sodium hydroxide (lye) in order to extract DMT with shellite, don't you?

You really need to watch out with accidentally boiling shellite as well - the vapours from that won't do the brain any good, encephalopathy or otherwise.

Do you have a copy of the instructions you were supposed to be following? A link?

 

[BloodyOath]

Oh god, I forgot steps. I did everything normal with the A/B extraction and was cleanly decanting off the Shellite. I had bought everything to do pretty much every tek (don't ask me why cause I don't know) and in my stupor I started using the fumaric acid when I shouldn't have. There was a full day of me troubleshooting and beause lye breaks it I was thinking it was just over acidified without checking the ph. Any more specific questions that could help, I'd be glad to try and answer.

 

[BloodyOath]

Oh yhes sorry I used Dextro Delight 460g, Diggers caustic maybe 200g and Glitz caustic soda maybe 300g. I literally did a mish mash of all the teks basically minus acetone and limeonine. There could be traces of IPA as well.

 

[Transform]

Oh god, I forgot steps. I did everything normal with the A/B extraction and was cleanly decanting off the Shellite. I had bought everything to do pretty much every tek (don't ask me why cause I don't know) and in my stupor I started using the fumaric acid when I shouldn't have. There was a full day of me troubleshooting and beause lye breaks it I was thinking it was just over acidified without checking the ph. Any more specific questions that could help, I'd be glad to try and answer.

Well, that's the thing with writing out all the steps that you did systematically - it helps you to get the process clearer in your head so that you have a better chance of avoiding chaos and confusion.

 

[Transform]

Oh yhes sorry I used Dextro Delight 460g, Diggers caustic maybe 200g and Glitz caustic soda maybe 300g

For how much bark? That would seem like an enormous extraction to commit to when you apparently don't really seem to know what you're doing...

Edit: I see, you said a total of 40g plant material?? Really? If that's indeed the case, then you've got a load of inorganic salts and not much else.

 

[blig-blug]

It's none of my business, but is there someone maybe that could lend you a hand with the process? Some steps are potentially quite hazardous and with severe memory issues they could be risky to perform (I've been there too in the past due to an unrelated issue). If someone could help you keep track of it, it would be safer and more clear to you what has gone right or wrong.

 

[BloodyOath]

For how much bark? That would seem like an enormous extraction to commit to when you apparently don't really seem to know what you're doing...

Edit: I see, you said a total of 40g plant material?? Really? If that's indeed the case, then you've got a load of inorganic salts and not much else.

250 grams of Acacia Acuminati typical root bark, 20 grams narrow phylodes and narow bark. I bought the samples first then this happened on the 250g but it all got mixed when the 250g got delivered.

 

[BloodyOath]

It's none of my business, but is there someone maybe that could lend you a hand with the process? Some steps are potentially quite hazardous and with severe memory issues they could be risky to perform (I've been there too in the past due to an unrelated issue). If someone could help you keep track of it, it would be safer and more clear to you what has gone right or wrong.

Thankyou for the concern but I'm ok. I know for the future now and will not be extracting unless I'm clear minded. It was very silly on my part to start in the state that I was.

 

[Transform]

250 grams of Acacia Acuminati typical root bark, 20 grams narrow phylodes and narow bark. I bought the samples first then this happened on the 250g but it all got mixed when the 250g got delivered.

Ah, OK - that must have been a typo - or at least an omission - in your description:

Acacia Acuminata typical variety, 20g narrow phylodes and 20g of narrow bark

This is precisely why I've encouraged you to make a systematic effort in writing out your method, and @blig-blug has urged you to get assistance with the process.

 

[BloodyOath]

Ah, OK - that must have been a typo - or at least an omission - in your description:

This is precisely why I've encouraged you to make a systematic effort in writing out your method, and @blig-blug has urged you to get assistance with the process.

I'll have a conversation with someone if it helps for sure. I'm sorry I mis interpreted what blig-blug meant.

 

[BloodyOath]

Sideview

 

[BloodyOath]

I think this explains it https://share.google/aimode/ggqenOYwaUcGGMgyk
I was wrong about the lye. when I tested it the lye must have brought the temp up to dissolve the matrix. It's not Ph bound, it is a thermal bond. I think the combination sitting on the magnetic stirrer with a 40 degree heat mat wrapped around the bottle was enough heat to allow the reaction to happen. I'm sure the agitation is a part of it as well. Please, I need questions so I can figure out what I've made 100%. I don't have any more product to try it on so if anyone out there could give it a whack and let us know how you go. Also I think it might be good to add that in my stupor I was adding acid and base like crazy. I think that also could play a part in it. What I've done isn't crazy chemistry, it seems like it's purely step based. Once someone can confirm what I have and how I can safely remove the magnesium, I will try it and report the results.
[edit} https://share.google/aimode/qglnp9PrnMfhdAnVp Purification steps

 

[BloodyOath]

I'm coining it now, N/DMT difumarate salt

 

[BloodyOath]

https://share.google/aimode/MMZfosJ9RSpk3DoRJ Harmala connection. I'm sorry if I'm spamming but I want to publicly document this. No one is making money off this.

 

[BloodyOath]

I was wrong again, it is Ph bound (can you tell I'm not a chemist?), temperature only changes viscosity.