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I think this world is hell

Curated_Thinking said:
Everyone and everything is not running around with their own SOUL. There is no individual Soul, there's just one and we all share in it. It is the animating force that moves us all that makes interaction and all observable dynamics possible; dynamism. Consciousness is a byproduct of dynamism, think about: thoughts are active, they don't sit still, they evolve as they come. They're coming is an activity in itself is it not? Can't see through a raging river, but when the waters settle, they become clear.
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It’s difficult for me to imagine that every individual shares the same "soul".
While I can conceive of the cosmos having a kind of "soul", a force that makes movement, change, and becoming possible,
I struggle to equate that with the idea of a single, shared personal essence.

In Timaios, Plato describes the cosmos itself as a living being, endowed with both a body and a "soul", a "world soul" that animates the whole.
But he does not stop there.
He also states that every living being within the cosmos has its own body and its own "soul", individual and particular.
This implies a structural resemblance between the macrocosm and the microcosm, but not an identity of their essences.

I'm also not sure whether the term "soul" in this context is meant to be synonymous with "mind" or "consciousness".
There are psychological theories, such as Carl Jung’s, that propose individuals share fragments of universal archetypes.
But even here, the identity of these fragments is not uniform across individuals.
Rather, each person carries potential expressions of these archetypes, and depending on context, some rise more prominently to the surface.

Still, they manifest in unique ways.
Two different individuals may both embody the archetype of the "hero" but they will not behave identically,
because their experiences, temperaments, and inner lives shape the form that archetype takes.
 
LuxObscura said:
It’s difficult for me to imagine that every individual shares the same "soul".
While I can conceive of the cosmos having a kind of "soul", a force that makes movement, change, and becoming possible,
I struggle to equate that with the idea of a single, shared personal essence.
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I get that, it's like going to the beach. You scoop up sand, you didn't scoop up the beach, same with water, you scooped up seawater, not the sea. Is the sand or water in your hand any different from what's laying around, No. And eventually when you release it, it all returns to the sea or wherever you let it go. Neither stops being what it is no matter where it is. Their states can be changed, sand to glass, water to ice. But they're still the same substance they always were.

Soul, God or any of that is change. We get caught up in the things that do the changing instead of focusing on the act of change itself; dynamism. In practical terms, the transfer of energy is GOD in motion, and that motion is the inherent default state of the Cosmos. All observable phenomena we call the Cosmos is the transfer of energy. That's what existence is. The mind with its ego tries to grab and hold, but wisdom always sees to let go and detach. Our limited perception that's rooted in Time thinks the moment that constitutes it's life is forever or all there is, it's not. The process is all there is and we are part of that process. We are the witnessing part. Every part of reality is party of the same being, animated or not. Your being is the inside, the rest of the cosmos is your outside. It's all you, even me.

Life is long as fuck because we need time to wrap our minds around that. If we run out of time while we're here. We'll make more time and be back LMAO.
 
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I can understand why the OP would say they think this world is hell. Even some of the books supposed to help us has countless people in a mind fuck.

Be fruitful and multiply. Every child every life is a blessing.
They then go on to tell that blessed being that their biggest mistake was coming into being. Because now they're marked for damnation because of the actions of some other people way the long time ago. The same creator who sent that blessing into the world, is now holding it responsible for the state of the world he "blessed" it into being in. WTF am I right?
 
Curated_Thinking said:
I get that, it's like going to the beach. You scoop up sand, you didn't scoop up the beach, same with water in the same, you scooped up water, not the sea. Is the sand or water in your hand any different from what's laying around, No. And eventually when you release it, it all returns to the sea or wherever you let it go. Neither stops being what it is no matter where it is. Their states can be changed, sand to glass, water to ice. But they're still the same substance they always were.

Soul, God or any of that is change. We get caught up in the things that do the changing instead of focusing on the act itself. Scientifically, the transfer of energy is GOD in motion. All observable phenomena we call the Cosmos is the transfer of energy. That's what existence is. The mind with its ego tries to grab and hold, but wisdom always sees to let go and detach. Our limited perception that's rooted in Time thinks the moment that constitutes it's life is forever or all there is, it's not. The process is all there is and we are part of that process. We are the witnessing part.
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From a materialistic standpoint, it's comprehensible:
All human beings are made of atoms, and fundamentally, these atoms follow the same physical laws.
But I believe that neither body, mind, nor soul are fully reducible to the material components they're composed of.
Even if we set aside the classical debates between dualists, materialists, and idealists.
The idea that all expressions of being are "the same" misses the complexity and individuality of consciousness and experience.

Curated_Thinking said:
Every part of reality is party of the same being, animated or not. Your being is the inside, the rest of the cosmos is your outside. It's all you, even me.
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This reminds me of solipsism:
The philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist, and everything else could be an extension or projection of it.
While I understand the poetic intention behind saying "it's all you, even me",
I believe this collapses the distinction between subject and object, between self and other.
Such a perspective risks overlooking the alterity, the radical otherness, of the people we interact with.
Even if all is one in a metaphysical sense, we still relate as differentiated beings.
 
LuxObscura said:
The philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist, and everything else could be an extension or projection of it
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It's funny, because it could be a projection. But solipsism doesn't even say that. It's a purely epistemic statement relative to mind. Simply, you can be sure your own mind exists, but a cogent solipsist would say you really can't know anything about the world, that includes if it's even there.

However, you're highlighting another factor to consider in all of this. Is it that one stance is true (I am me and you are you vs I am you and you are me) or that the nature of state of mind to have the type of experience that brings about such conclusions is part of the ontology that conclusions cling to? If it's relative to a perspective or vantage, than neither is more true than the other and we're ontologically back to where we started.

LuxObscura said:
The idea that all expressions of being are "the same" misses the complexity and individuality of consciousness and experience.
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What do we mean by sameness anyway? To say that we are the same, or that you are me and I am you, we'd have to have a consensus on what we call the self. Being made of the "same" stuff doesn't make us the "same" in my opinion. There are still differences about us by virtue of many factors. And novelty seems to be built into the structure we find ourselves in, and appealing to sameness doesn't prop the door for novelty.

At the end of the day, we're dealing with our own conceptions, and the conception of oneness is no more exempt from being limited than any other conception we have about reality.

One love
 
LuxObscura said:
From a materialistic standpoint, it's comprehensible:
All human beings are made of atoms, and fundamentally, these atoms follow the same physical laws.
But I believe that neither body, mind, nor soul are fully reducible to the material components they're composed of.
Even if we set aside the classical debates between dualists, materialists, and idealists.
The idea that all expressions of being are "the same" misses the complexity and individuality of consciousness and experience.


This reminds me of solipsism:
The philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist, and everything else could be an extension or projection of it.
While I understand the poetic intention behind saying "it's all you, even me",
I believe this collapses the distinction between subject and object, between self and other.
Such a perspective risks overlooking the alterity, the radical otherness, of the people we interact with.
Even if all is one in a metaphysical sense, we still relate as differentiated beings.
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The mind differentiates because it needs to. Reality doesn't. Does it not rain when we want it to shine, no reality just is and does. Even what we're doing now is the mind trying to rationalize, the egoic need for control. But control is us taking the reins on this dynamic thing, it moves at its own pace at its own accord, we're just here for the ride. To experience the ride, know the ride, give it meaning. Maybe add some new dimensions to it.
 
Curated_Thinking said:
The mind differentiates because it needs to. Reality doesn't. Does it not rain when we want it to shine, no reality just is and does. Even what we're doing now is the mind trying to rationalize, the egoic need for control. But control is us taking the reins on this dynamic thing, it moves at its own pace at its own accord, we're just here for the ride. To experience the ride, know the ride, give it meaning.
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I don’t want to merely interpret the comment in a charitable light, even though I understand the impulse to do so.
However, I find it difficult because there are conceptual leaps that aren't fully developed or connected.
For now, I’m deliberately leaving the ego aspect aside, not because I consider it unimportant, but because it would open too many doors at once.

Instead, I’d like to offer an analogy concerning soul and consciousness:
What if we imagine the soul as a root system?
A single origin that branches out into universes, planetary systems, planets, living beings.
If there is only one soul, then it would be the force that permeates everything, like an underground network of roots.
From this perspective, we are all expressions of the same living source distinct, yet connected.

Still, I find it hard to overlook the individuality that characterizes each being.
Maybe it’s our ego that keeps us from seeing the unity of all things.
But maybe it’s also our ego that protects us from losing sight of the uniqueness within each individual.
Does it really have to be an either-or?
Why not think both at once: the shared and the singular?
 
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yes ur
Skr9 said:
I think this world is hell. The suffering of people and animals, wars, tooth pain, fragile health, and the fragile human body, brainwashing, all the crazy satanism around, these are all the bad things going on here. They are here you can't refuse it. Truth and kindness are not valued. People hate the truth that makes them uncomfortable and instantly hate you for it.

In the most widespread religions on planet Earth, particularly the Abrahamic ones, it is asserted that hell and heaven are the afterlife destinies of a person depending on what they do in their earthly life..... if their life is pleasing to the Lord, they will end up in the garden of paradise.... if they are a sinner, they will suffer eternally in hell.


Nonetheless, some philosophers have noted that the modern world is already structured in such a way that it resembles a fully realized and well-constructed hell. In this world, the main principle is entropy and the finiteness of everything, and any systems eventually decline and perish without a trace, and among people, the most desirable qualities are adaptability and treachery, while honesty leads only to hatred and a low status.


From this, the conclusion that the modern world is already hell, and the local inhabitants are apparently serving their punishment for certain sins in past lives or some other existence. It is impossible to make the world any different, as these are its fundamental principles.
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right! nailed it, but thats part of it, i just wanted to tell u that. sorry i dont go into detail right now. but yeah, ur so close to solving it, i did, i went all the away baby! lol, but yeah , son of the era is here, and the last book is almost finished!
 
I think hell is just some Judeo- Christian bullshit made up to control people to be honest.

This world is so bad largely because of humans.

Once no one believes it hell any longer they will figure out some new bs to tell you so you can feel like shit about your next life too. Lol
 
Hellish realms on DMT seem to be focussed on chaos, confusion and fear. Not so much burning in fire.

If heaven is a state where everything makes perfect sense and there is nothing to fear then hell for me is certainly the opposite.
 
Historically though this idea of humans ascending up into heaven, the god realms etc and residing there is pretty new. Most of human history it seems we believed everyone eventually joined the ancestors in some kind of underworld. The journey to the underworld was important.

More recent is the idea that we might go upwards…or be judged and go down. It seems entirely made up.
 
fink said:
Hellish realms on DMT seem to be focussed on chaos, confusion and fear. Not so much burning in fire.
If heaven is a state where everything makes perfect sense and there is nothing to fear then hell for me is certainly the opposite.
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fink said:
I agree, more of a threat to control the peasants than anything based on sense
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While I largely agree with the perspective described that hellish DMT realms are defined more by chaos, confusion, and fear than by fire,
I think the topic can be viewed from multiple angles.

Much has already been said from the standpoint of the ruler or power structure.
But it's also worth considering the perspective of certain individuals:
For some, these constructs, however irrational they may seem, offer a sense of stability.
Without them, some might continue to harm or kill.
That doesn't mean we should relativize the core problem, namely the abuse of power.
Rather, it highlights the complexity of the dynamics at play.

People who have undergone psychedelic experiences often see things in fundamentally different ways than those who haven't.
It’s difficult perhaps even unfair to expect full understanding from those who lack the experiential background.

What we need are structures that provide both clarity and individual grounding.
Enlightening, educational systems can offer orientation without necessarily exerting power.
The problem with control and authority is that they always require someone to be disempowered and that's exactly where such systems lose their legitimacy.
Jamie01 said:
Historically though this idea of humans ascending up into heaven, the god realms etc and residing there is pretty new. Most of human history it seems we believed everyone eventually joined the ancestors in some kind of underworld. The journey to the underworld was important.

More recent is the idea that we might go upwards…or be judged and go down. It seems entirely made up.
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Living beings are not capable of understanding everything.
What cannot be understood is often attributed to the inexplicable.
And who fits that role better than God, the one said to have created everything?

But the fact remains: we simply cannot know.
So it remains a theory, one that brings comfort to many.
Even if this 'God' goes by different names and is embedded in various narratives, the function is often the same.

But that uncertainty applies to all other theories as well, whenever certainty is out of reach, we're left with belief, interpretation, or silence.
 
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