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iboga as antidepressant?

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polytrip

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Has iboga ever been researched as an antidepressant? I've never read anything about iboga as an antidepressant, and ofcourse this makes sense since the big farmaceuthical companies would not benefit as much from it as from some new synthesized chemical. But they could try to synthesize a specialised iboga analogue that works even better for depressions, with less side-effects.
When you think of it, iboga-alkaloids have everything that would make them the perfect antidepressant: they are dissociatives with NMDA-antagonistic activity, they are MAOI's (or some of their metabolites anyway) AND they have other receptor activity as well that is likely to have a positive effect on depressions. Wich other group of substances has all these features?

The fact that they work so well in treating addiction and OCD is an indicator for further possibility's. Most people who're addicted to something are actually depressive patients in the first place of whom their addiction is only a symptom of their depression.
And many antidepressants are also used against OCD, so why could the same not aply the other way round?

Since depression is such a terrible disease with such immense costs for individuals and the society they live in, this would realy be a good idea.

If nothing has been done in this field, i think it would be a good idea to start a lobby for experiments with iboga as an antidepressant.
I don't have any contacts in the farmaceutical industry and pharmaceutical R&D, but i would be willing to invest some time into such a lobby.
 
As I understand it, Iboga has been shown to have SSRI properties.. That's what it says on the wiki anyway, I can't find very much solid info about it, though I've researched quite a bit.. My only experience comes from my numerous experiences eating Ibogaine HCL and Total Alkaloid extractions.. And I can tell you the anti-depressant properties are incredible.. I was using Iboga to help deal with my cravings for heroin, and after having been completely reset, I see all the other ways it's helped me..

And unlike Ibogaine, Ibogamine and noribogaine have incredibly long half-lives and a cumulative effect.. So to achieve the anti-depressant effects, it it not necessary to take flood, or even booster doses.. You can slowly eat sub-psychoactive doses over consecutive days and let it build up in your system until a nice glow is achieved..

More on this from me a little later.. I started a new job that's physically demanding, and I'm tired as hell... But if anyone can offer some science behind the SSRI-like action of iboga, I would love to read it. All I have to offer is my experience.
 
From what i understand, iboga is unique in that it has several mechanisms of acting as an antidepressant independantly from eachother.
For instance, ketamine has antidepressant properties because of it's effects on glutamate receptors and not because of any sort of MAOI-effect. Ibogaine has these very same effects as well, BESIDES it's SSRI mechanism and besides the efffects it has on some serotonin and dopamine receptors.
Iboga may be the ideal antidepressant as one single molecule that combines the effects of several completely different antidepressants.
 
Neat! I didn't know it had more than a basic SSRI action to it.. Makes sense though, because I've tried so many SSRI's and they've never helped.. My experience with Iboga is beyond words however..

Question, I've been trying to find out, maybe you can help me with.. With it's 'SSRI properties', will Iboga use block the effects of MDMA? I've had a couple of experiences lately of significantly diminished effect, having waited about a week after any Ibogaine/Iboga use, once or twice waiting over a month.. But not having any test kits, I can't be sure if it was MDMA of some analogue. Bio-assay is difficult with 'ecstasy' these days.. Grumble grumble.
 
digital_phreedom said:
Neat! I didn't know it had more than a basic SSRI action to it.. Makes sense though, because I've tried so many SSRI's and they've never helped.. My experience with Iboga is beyond words however..

Question, I've been trying to find out, maybe you can help me with.. With it's 'SSRI properties', will Iboga use block the effects of MDMA? I've had a couple of experiences lately of significantly diminished effect, having waited about a week after any Ibogaine/Iboga use, once or twice waiting over a month.. But not having any test kits, I can't be sure if it was MDMA of some analogue. Bio-assay is difficult with 'ecstasy' these days.. Grumble grumble.
Click to expand...
for me it did block the effects of shrooms and ayahuasca for a few weeks, but i've heard that it amplifies the effects of other substances like mescaline or cannabis.
I wouldn't know how it's for XTC. Ibogaine does so many things at the same time. But it very well could diminish the effects of it.
 
I believe Iboga(ine) is one of the most powerful anti-depressants that nature has to offer. Unfortunately the vast majority of scientific/medical research on Ibogaine has been on its addiction interrupting potential, but it is definitely a multifaceted healing plant.

One of the reasons scientists are reluctant to work with Ibogaine is that is deemed a 'dirty' drug, in that as oppose to targeting one specific receptor type, it has a weak affinity for a host of different receptor types. As mentioned, Ibogaine exerts an anti-depressant effect on glutumate receptors similar to ketamine, but it also has exerts an SSRI-like effect. If we're getting technical it is not the Ibogaine that does this, it is it's long lasting liver metabolite, norIbogaine or 12-hydroxyIbogaine. This metabolite continues to be released for an extended time, as the Ibogaine is thought to be stored in fatty and other body tissues, and according to studies by Professor Deborah Mash and her team in Miami, it is detectable post administration of Ibogaine for four to six weeks, but traces may be detectable for three months.

Another important contributing effect from Ibogaine is that it causes a long term, increase in levels of glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor (GDNF) in the brain. This is a highly neuroprotective protein and may cause sprouting of new dopaminergic neurons and axons. This substance may itself contribute to the anti-additive and antidepressant effects of Ibogaine. A similar protein, brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) is released after you exercise.

It is the 12-hydroxyIbogaine that binds to receptors acting as a potent seretonin reuptake inhibitor, and this likely exerts both the anti-addictive and antidepressant effects experienced. I suspect this also the reason why you failed to notice much effect from the MDMA. Personally, I would think twice about taking MDMA just after I've cleaned and defragged my brain through Ibogaine, but that's just me. 😉

An Iboga(ine) treatment provider in South Africa recommends 500mg of powdered root bark every four days as a ant-addictive, antidepressant tonic. The Iboga based off shoot of a well known Dutch ethnobotanical vendor's company has also started selling an Iboga TPA tincture which is a great and very effective way of working with a microdosing regime.
 
^^
Very informative, thank you! The MDMA is for therapy, though I'm sure some joy will be had as well... It's gotten such a bad reputation because of it's 'club drug' status, but I still hold it very high on my list of the most beneficial entheogens.

And wow, only 500mg root bark? When I use pure bark, I usually dose at least 2 grams or so, depending on what I'm trying to achieve. If I'm busy, I keep it just below the psychoactive threshhold, which, with my gabon RB is about 1-2 grams for me.. But if I don't have anything too physical to be doing for a few hours, I find it much more beneficial to either micro-dose, or just boost. My prefered method of taking Iboga is a purified total alkaloid extract. What I've been doing most of my work with is about 70% active alkaloids, and I dose it 1:1 as I would with pure HCL, it's quite potent.

For depression purposes, both micro-dosing and boosting are quite beneficial to me, depending on what I need and how much time I can devote to it. I will sometimes make my boosters a full 1/3 to 1/2 of a flood dose (~18mg/kg), so up to 9mg/kg for a booster, and my micro-doses get as low as 1mg/kg, and with my current TA I can even feel it still, having only taken 65mg! Amazing stuff..

As for the MDMA, I can't be sure if my diminished experience was from prior Iboga use, or me having something like mephedrone, methylone, MDMAI, MDEI, etc.. I didn't have a test kit at the time and trusted the source, so there's no way to tell unfortunately.

And polytrip, I find it interesting that you said shrooms and aya didn't work after Iboga? I didn't realize those mechanisms of action could be blocked, I guess. Those hit the 5-HT1 & 2 receptors primarily, right? I haven't taken mushrooms in a couple years, but I was using Iboga/Ayahuasca regularly for a good month, up until I started this new job last week. I still felt the Aya sometimes only 4 or 5 days after a dose of 9mg/kg Iboga alkaloids. Interesting.
 
From everything i have read so far, it looks like iboga might also help treat dysthymia depression.

If so, it would be great to wake up again and feel energized like i did when i was younger. Rather than waking up feeling more tired than before i went to bed.
 
I think it would. It's used for many disorders that are bordering depressive disorders like obsessive behaviour, etc. So it's range of possible therapeutic aplications is probably very wide, just as the many possible ways in wich it could be used therapeutically.

It's interesting that iboga also has this antidepressant effect in doses that are hardly felt at all. Studies to the antidepressant effect of ketamine show that you don't have to counsciously undergo the effect of ketamine to get this antidepressant effect from it.

The fact that a psychedelic experience could be included in an iboga therapy does give it extra potential. Such an experience can help to draw a line..set to prime the brain for recovery and devellopping new habits and new ways of looking at things. But it's not necessary.

I must say...it could be dangerous to self-medicate if you're suffering from a depression. Especially if you're already taking other medications. Combining iboga with other antidepressants could be VERY risky, depending on the type of antidepressant you're taking.
 
It does seems that the main thing that iboga does is pre-load ones brain with certain chemicals (kind of like, filing in the blanks). Weather it be in one mega does (trip) or just build it up over a time period with smaller amounts. Prob accomplishes the same thing. However, i would have to agree that the trip would be an added bonus, not a must but certaintly very usefull.

polytrip said:
I must say...it could be dangerous to self-medicate if you're suffering from a depression. Especially if you're already taking other medications. Combining iboga with other antidepressants could be VERY risky, depending on the type of antidepressant you're taking.
Click to expand...

100% agreed, i've done both self and professional medication treatment and wish that i never did either one! I just wish my brain went to the same condition it was before i tried smoking ganja for the first time. It ended up triggering a major 2 year depression and it has been a roller coster from then on.
 
Iboga didn't diminish the effects of mushrooms or LSD for me. It does make me get less high off of cannabis, although I still feel it. It is definitely noticeably present when these other things are taken, but it didn't diminish the effects at all for me. On the contrary it seemed to enhance them. The psychedelic head space was more evident for longer after the trip, as well. It did seem to enhance the effects of 2cb, for me. It doesn't diminish the effects of ketamine, but again, it has a noticeable presence while on ketamine. I think that is about all I have done with iboga, psychedelic wise. It definitely potentiates opiates, but makes them feel different.
 
When my buddy Alfrendo took iboga, first 1gm then 4gm two days later, he felt quite good for a few days. The afterglow was quite uplifting physically and mentally.

I suppose one would have to start with low doses and gradually work up until one found themselves either feeling well or with an unpleasant effect. I feel fairly certain with what I've read and my good friends experience that a schedule could be put together that maintains that effect over a prolonged period. Iboga seems to have a genuine corrective nature so perhaps after some time of use one could stop entirely.
 
The only downside is that iboga could be a powerfull medicine and like other powerfull medicines, could have severe side-effecs. Not just in flood doses, because that's already known to everybody.
But also in micro-doses over a longer period of time.

As an antidepressant it probably would be most succesfull in a therapeutic setting. Either by taking strong flood-doses with a medicineman or with micro-doses limited to a few weeks or months, combined with psychotherapy.

But there would at least have to be someone monitoring whether side-effects become problematic.
As an over-the-counter medicine it's probably just too strong.
 
I think using an Iboga alkaloid tincture for micro-dosing might be a way to go here. One or more drops of tincture a day can be taken, depending on needs, and not necessarily every day during a course of treatment either. This will keep the doses used very low indeed, but I know from personal experience that this is an effective way of working with Iboga, especially over an extended period of taking two drops a day. The effect is cumulative over time as well. This method of dosing is advantageous as it is so easy and convenient, it is reliable and flexible, and the doses are very low. While a flood dose session may provide a longer term way of treating depression, I think micro-dosing may have a place also, and it is a nice gentle way of getting more familiar with Iboga.

Used like this I feel it is safe if respect is given. I haven't noticed any side effects at all, but do enjoy the subtle lift it provides. I was taking it daily over many weeks prior to the Christmas break, with occasional breaks at weekends. I avoid taking it past lunchtime, as I feel it can interfere with my sleep...other people have told me it helps them sleep, so each to their own. Iboga will let you know if and when you have had enough. Apparently one feels uncomfortably stimulated and may experience mild flu like symptoms. Dosing with tincture drops I think it would take a very long time indeed and some serious determination on one's part to get to this stage.
 
Bancopuma, would you say it might be a good idea to take iboga in cycles? As in, take two drops a day for two weeks, then none for two weeks. might prevent an over-build up and give a rest period for the body. Does there seem to be any tolerance changes over time?
 
There is a tolerance that builds up over time on low doses of iboga...well maybe I should say there is a maximum antidepressant effect that can be reached on low doses.

It HAS been investigated by big pharma and many analogs of noribogaine have been synthed.

When I was taking it cycles seemed to work well. After two weeks of 2-3g/daily I would take a week or two off....two weeks seemed to be a solid amount of time. 3 weeks was needed for tryptamines to work full force however, and I gave up daily iboga usage.
 
I use iboga in cycles like that. I like to eat 2-4 grams of bark for 5-7 days, then take a break til the urge comes again. It begins to accumulate and I get used to tripping for days. I get used to the feeling, but it doesn't seem to have a big tolerance build up. It does seem to build up in my system when taken for days in a row, and after awhile it begins to make me a bit spacey headed if I do too much. If you listen to your body it can tell you when it's a good time to take a break. I do enjoy waking up tripping, though, while I am using it daily. No matter how early in the day I use it, it seems to be more noticeable in the evenings, too. I tend to notice much more trails and tracers in the evenings when there is more light contrasts.
 
I just found this thread sorry I'm late. I have microdosed iboga orally and via smoking it a couple times and each time I noticed a very powerful antidepressant effect, as expected. The problem for me is that it also makes me kind of lightheaded/off balance feeling for a few days! I didn't have any accidents or anything but it was a bit uncomfortable. I kind of had to concentrate to walk straight etc. Does it have this effect on everyone or just me? I'm guessing it would be a bad idea to drive for days after taking iboga, at least for me... but not really sure. I did bike without incident...
 
Hmm interesting dude, sounds like you may have a high sensitivity to Iboga. One shouldn't really be feeling the symptoms you describe at micro doses, unless it is very good stuff or one is extra sensitive. I would maybe try lowering your dose further to see if that eliminates these symptoms.
 
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