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Iboga disappearing from the wild in Gabon

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This is really sad to see happening to iboga its really important for people to be Eco friendly are it will end up like (Mreah Prew Phnom trees) which contains sassafras used in MDMA production.
 
Giorgio Samorini, who is currently in Gabon, said that he didnt see any sign of over/intensive harvesting. I wonder if the iboga produced to send abroad is grown only in one area?
 
marzbar329 said:
This is really sad to see happening to iboga its really important for people to be Eco friendly are it will end up like (Mreah Prew Phnom trees) which contains sassafras used in MDMA production.
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(Pedantry alert!)
Sassafras is a different tree (still Lauraceae though, fwiw.) Safrole is the compound in question.
:thumb_up:
 
Dante said:
Giorgio Samorini, who is currently in Gabon, said that he didnt see any sign of over/intensive harvesting.
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People say different things, but Yann quoted above is really well documented and has made tremendous researches with authorities both from the traditional use of Iboga and worldwide acknowledged scholars such as Pr. Gassita (whose work is alas largely overlooked).

I've heard some people I won't name here saying one thing and the contrary, that is on one hand they recognize with certain people that they have hard times finding the Sacred Wood for their traditional use, and to other people they say there's no problem, but they say that to people who can bring $$$ and the economical pressure is *STRONG* in Gabon.

From what I know and I've heard directly from Gabon, I'm pretty certain people protecting Iboga and trying to prevent its extinction are more truthful and better informed than those who say the contrary. It seems logical that someone trying to sell Iboga (although this is illegal) will try to assure the plant is not endangered, especially those living in Gabon and needing cruelly money - that's something to keep in mind - but it's also no surprise to hear it from those those selling for a huge price who are only focused on short term rentability.

I wonder if the iboga produced to send abroad is grown only in one area?
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What is sold for Iboga is sometimes not Iboga at all, and even worse sometimes does not even contains ibogaine or voacangine. There was a medical report recently about a heroin addict who tried to use it as a cure and who died because what she thought was Iboga was in fact Rauvfolia sp. (reference)[/quote].
Now for the genuine Iboga, the best varieties grow in Gabon but the exportation is mainly forbidden, so 99% of what is sold worldwide is illegally exported or in some rare cases come from marginal areas outside Gabon.

Also note that 99% of podseeds if they are grom Gabon are illegally exported since it is also forbidden to export seeds from this plant (the figure is imaginary, I know only one person who has an authorization to export seeds and he doesn't).

Also there's one site in the world (far from Africa) where someone grows Iboga with a proper chemotype, but AFAIK he doesn't sell It since he uses the plant on site.
 
There is interesting overlap between harmaline and ibogaine...they could be called sister compounds in a sense...but they are still markedly different substances. The long term effects alone set them far apart, based on my own experience. The long term storage of ibogaine in bodily tissues and its conversion by the liver to noribogaine over time sets it far apart I think. Harmaline and related compounds have their merits no doubt, but iboga(ine) is something else. I think a better option here would to investigate Voacanga africana as an alternative source of iboga alkaloids, while taking pressure off wild stocks of iboga.
 
Yes it is, and ibogaine can be synthesized from precursor found in Voacanga africana, the matter is quite well exposed in this conference :
slideslive.com

Ibogaine: Community & Ecology

The social dislocation theory of addiction provides an important critique of the limitations’s of psychiatry’s definition of addiction a a chronic neurological disorder. Through an examination of...
slideslive.com slideslive.com
 
Yeah, voacanga could definately be a good replacement.

Many people describe it as feeling more toxic though, wich could put people off.
However, there could maybe be ways to deal with that. Maybe pure alkaloïds feel less toxic. Or synhesizing ibogaïne from voacanga. Or maybe it's very subjective anyway, this 'toxic' feeling. Ibogaine is a very heavy drug in whatever form you take it.

I think the harmaline would be especially interesting for those who want the visionary experience but not nessecarily the healing. Though i have no experience with pure harmaline myself.
 
dragonrider & peeps, this should be of interest regarding Voacanga africana extraction and ibogaine production, from some of my email exchange with ibogaine expert Dr Chris Jenks.

"In my own studies, acetic acid doesn't remove alkaloids from root bark as fast as dilute HCl does, but I don't know if that matters in extracting alkaloids from solvent. Actually, based on my recent work with Voacanga, I would expect acetic acid to be most likely to leave behind voacangine in the limonene extract because that is the least basic alkaloid. That's not a bad thing since voacangine seems to only cause stomach aches.

You can extract powdered Voacanga bark with a non-polar solvent and remove most of the more basic alkaloids with weak acid like dilute acetic acid, then remove the weak bases like voacangine with a strong acid like HCl. Bob Sisko uses toluene for the initial extraction of root bark, showing that this is feasible. However, on the scale needed to make a difference in the market it would be much more economical to extract the bark with strong dilute acid and recover them by precipitation with base - or make the extract less acidic and extract out voacangine directly. The only other thing I would like to emphasize, although it is covered in the above presentation, is that these extractions need to be repeated to be efficient, just as the extraction of iboga bark with dilute acid is best repeated at least six times."

...so selective use of solvents may produce a cleaner alkaloid profile from the Voacanga.

A link here (which needs updating), but it might be worth contacting Chris about this:


There will definitely be some visionary overlap between high dose harmaline and ibogaine...the former in some sense may be more user friendly and less time demanding, but one highly experienced iboga practitioner (who introduced me to it), described a hangover lasting days after experimenting with really high doses of harmaline. Ibogaine can produce a hangover before one managed to fall asleep, but post sleep for many there is a noticeable (and prolonged) afterglow (although I did not experience this after experiencing pure ibogaine, only TA and root bark). Both substances have the potential for neurotoxicity, but in ibogaine's case, the dosage levels required for this would likely already be causing some pretty hefty physiological toxicity issues anyway...I'm not sure at what dosages harmaline would start to become neurotoxic.
 
So how hard to grow are we talking? I live in (want to say) zone 7...? Georgia wherever that is. I'm a noob grower and can barely keep my kratom alive but i'm into the challenge. I have some basic LOA grow lights inside, nothing fancy since i'll be moving out of this house in six months. Think it's doable? Can live plants be ordered? Or only seeds? I have no interest in using ibogaine for a long time if ever (health concerns), but i can absolutely not tolerate the decline of herbalism from unscrupulous behaviors. If i can get some seeds/live plants i would love to do what i can. This is truly sad to hear.
 
iboga is a banned plant in the USA, its pretty hard to find a plant. Good seed is tough to come by too. Im in Z10a, they seem to love it here. Individual climates and ecologies may differ. They are from equatorial Africa, so you can guess what they like. :p
 
I see that seeds are being sold for terribly high prices on the internet. I would love to get involved in growing iboga in the Amazon jungle, if I was able to obtain the seeds at a good price, I would start a campaign here.
 
Kambogahuascanga said:
Thank you all so much for your proactive attitudes!!! What we want to do is to spread as many seeds out as possible. I don't have a lot of money but I think that some retailers will be supportive of the cause. It would help if you are located in a tropical environment but of course if you can keep it warm and humid even inside will due. The organization that has spontaneously formed is called IRIE Iboga Resurrection Institute Existence. There are 2 main meanings out of this which are both interconnected. Let it be noted that where ever Iboga grows there is peace, let it also be noted that Irie means all is good and positive.

I am really impressed with the response here. In the long run the goal will be to re plant the Virgin Forests of Gabon which have been so ravaged by poachers. This is more of a long term goal because first we need well established plants to take cuttings off of and if at all possible tissue culture specimens. If we can get tissue culture down we will have a much greater chance of success in the transportation to re plant in Gabon.

I will be trying to get a website together and organizing as many folks as I can into some sort of e-mail group of some sort. It would be good if all the Iboga growers can communicate on the regular and if IRIE can have some sort of a way to keep track of where people are establishing Iboga havens. I would like to keep you all updated as I communicate with the Iboga Sustainability Program Manager of Gabon, Yann Guignon. His needs are quite a bit different what he wants is to establish private farms for the Bwiti.

I will be asking him if people want to donate where to send the money. But the goal of IRIE is a global movement and for global peace as I (we) feel that Iboga keeps peace where it is established in the earth. Will be looking especially for those in the Amazon but I have yet to inquire into the specifics on that on the Ayahuasca forum. Florida would be great in the US. Maybe other parts of the South as well, or the NW in a greenhouse would also be ideal. Humidity and warmth are imperative.

If you want seeds just let me know and I will put you on the reserve list. Jaime I already have you set for 50 seeds.

Thanks again,
Kiap
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Hello nice to read about your project. I currently live in California and have a beautiful greenhouse and want to grow some iboga. If I could just get some seeds I'm positive I could give it a go. Thank you
 
The Traveler said:
Indeed, they can be found and named in this subforum as long as they ONLY sell live plants and/or seeds (so no extractions and no things like processed/powdered products):

Sustainable Plant and Seed Suppliers

Grow your own
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me


Kind regards,

The Traveler
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Ah yes I know, but when I click the link in your post I get a page that I don’t have permission to view so I wasn’t sure if it was still available. Same goes for the link in the attitude page. Or I’m still, to new, and it is available for more advanced members.

Or is it this page?

The Ethnobotanical Garden

Preserving plant wisdom
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
 
I guess @The Traveler will have more insight to offer on the matter of permissions.

In that case, this might be relevant to quote:
The Traveler said:
The Sustainable plant and seed suppliers subforum is meant to discuss suppliers of legal plants and seeds. Since the DMT-Nexus has it's legal base in The Netherlands we are talking here about plants and seeds that are legal to trade in The Netherlands.

We have this subforum to promote the sustainable growing of your own plants for your own enthegoenic needs. This forum is not to discuss any other products.

So here are the basic rules:



LIVE PLANTS AND SEEDS ONLY

We can only discuss the suppliers of LIVE plants and seeds in this subforum. With the allowed products you can be specific again about what plant or seed you are talking about. This also means however that we CANNOT talk about harvested plants, parts of plants, plant-extracts or non-viable seeds.

Examples of things you CAN talk about:
* Viable seeds (Syrian rue, Caapi, Mimosa hostilis, Iboga, etc)
* Live plants (Cacti, Salvia divinorum, etc)
* Spores

Examples of things you CANNOT talk about:
* MHRB, ACRB
* Extracts (Salvia, kava kava, harmalas, etc)
* Leafs (Caapi-leafs, kratom, etc)
* Vines (Caapi-vines, etc)
* roots (kava kava, kirkii, etc)
* Cactus chips



NO TALK ABOUT SENDING PRODUCT TO PLACES WHERE THIS IS ILLEGAL

If a plant is illegal in your country, then you cannot discuss how to get that plants to your country. This is called trafficking and will fall under the same hard rules as buying/selling/sourcing that we currently have.

An example of this would be the shipping of Peyote from The Netherlands to the USA.



FOR FULL MEMBERS ONLY

This subforum is only visible to members of the DMT-Nexus and therefore hidden for search engines. Also any outgoing link is routed via anoniem.org to give no DMT-Nexus redirect information on the supplier websites.

We do this to for a few reasons:
* Make it harder for suppliers to recommend their own products or sabotage other suppliers (this since this subforum is outside the Welcome Area)
* Make no hits from the DMT-Nexus on supplier websites, that way we are not profiled as a source



THREAD TITLE: USE THE URL OR THE NAME OF THE SUPPLIER

In the thread title mention the url of the supplier or, if it is an offline company, their name. This will keep all information about one supplier in one thread and will make searching for it easy.

If the supplier is a supplier of both live plants/seeds and the so called 'ready-to-go' entheogens then make a link in the first post to the live plants and seeds section. This to prevent affiliation with the 'ready-to-go' products.



CHECK IF THERE ALREADY IS A THREAD ABOUT A SUPPLIER BEFORE MAKING A NEW ONE

If you want to post something about a supplier, please first check if there is already a thread about it. Don't make a new thread when there is already an existing one; we want all information of one supplier in one thread.



DON'T ASK "WHERE CAN I GET..."

Please don't make threads or posts about where to get a certain product. You can use Google (or any other search engine) for this. If you found a supplier that was not mentioned in the supplier section yet, you can make a new thread for this supplier and ask if people have experience with that supplier.



DO NOT POST ANY SUPPLIER INFO OUTSIDE THE SUPPLIERS SUBFORUM

All information about suppliers should be posted in the this Sustainable plant and seed suppliers subforum.

This subforum is only visible for registered members including new members and because of that it is not indexed by search machines. Also new members cannot post in it to prevent suppliers posting about themselves.

So please, never post anything about suppliers outside the suppliers subforum.



Kind regards,

The Traveler
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