So I eat the dmt alone and get no trip, but with maoi its a long psychedelic experience, got me thinking, would a maoi by itself not have to potentiate the dmt thats already naturally available in our body? Thus making us trippy or smth?
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If I drink a MAOI and I already have "natural DMT in me all the time" why doesnt it get me
- Thread starter justb612
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downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Well, maybe - just don't overestimate the amount of DMT that's naturally present in out bodies at any given time. It's probably in the range of picograms. It will also get metabolised and eliminated by means other than MAO so even if you stay on a RIMA for three years solid the rate of production is insufficient for an equilibrium amount of DMT to build up that would be noticeably psychoactive.
downwardsfromzero said:
Huh, might be... But would that not mean, that we are seriously mega dosing this substance? I thought we maybe get it, idk maybe 5x higher, tops 20x with a big dose..... But this could mean we're increasing it like soooo so much then? Sounds kidna scary..
Thanks for the answer though this stuff is still kinda new and its always nice to see itneresting perspectives or stuff didnt known to us/me yet
justB612 said:downwardsfromzero said:
Huh, might be... But would that not mean, that we are seriously mega dosing this substance? I thought we maybe get it, idk maybe 5x higher, tops 20x with a big dose..... But this could mean we're increasing it like soooo so much then? Sounds kidna scary..
Thanks for the answer though this stuff is still kinda new and its always nice to see itneresting perspectives or stuff didnt known to us/me yet
I also don't think that endogenous DMT has a high enough bioavailability.
Despite what increase there may be, you can find solace in the fact that it's a relatively benign molecule which is why we can get away with how much we take.
And I also don't know if I'd say we're mega dosing simply because there's endogenous DMT as well. That's not really dosing. I guess by comparison, we could look up how much melatonin we produce and compare to amounts dosed in supplements.
One love
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
I'd really have to dig through a ton of data to be 100% confident about that picogram figure. As I understand it, it's only in times of acute anoxic distress, such as drowning, where we might see an increase in endogenous DMT levels, and I've seen it suggested that this production occurs in the lungs.
For comparison, we'd have to look at things like peak plasma concentration as measured during various DMT studies over the years, along with things like urinary metabolite studies. And then there's the question of how much levels of endogenous DMT might vary throughout the day, such as might be informed by a continuous monitoring study.
There's a whole lot to read up on and a good deal of further studies that could be carried out.
But I do get the impression that active doses of DMT are several orders of magnitude in excess of normal endogenous levels as inferred from stuff like urinary IAA.
Edit: as you've mentioned melatonin, Void, that one did cross my mind as a comparison point as well.
For comparison, we'd have to look at things like peak plasma concentration as measured during various DMT studies over the years, along with things like urinary metabolite studies. And then there's the question of how much levels of endogenous DMT might vary throughout the day, such as might be informed by a continuous monitoring study.
There's a whole lot to read up on and a good deal of further studies that could be carried out.
But I do get the impression that active doses of DMT are several orders of magnitude in excess of normal endogenous levels as inferred from stuff like urinary IAA.
Edit: as you've mentioned melatonin, Void, that one did cross my mind as a comparison point as well.
Thanks for the replies, got a quick question still, some thoughts/understanding is not clear.
Let's say dmt in our brainz is very very low, incredibly small amount.
So we increase it by 5mg and already see visuals. But we gotta increase it, even more, to the ranges of 25-50, to peak with it....
But if the amounts are so small, I would have imagined the differences between percieved experience of the doses to be also so small. So a beginner dose to be 5.0001 mg and the strong dose to be 5.0200 or something.
I don't know why I feel this way, but it seems like if the initial number is so low, so should the differences between dose related experiences .....
Oh man im sick and tired and sorry if this does not make any sense...
Dmt in the lungs though, what ever is it doing there?
Let's say dmt in our brainz is very very low, incredibly small amount.
So we increase it by 5mg and already see visuals. But we gotta increase it, even more, to the ranges of 25-50, to peak with it....
But if the amounts are so small, I would have imagined the differences between percieved experience of the doses to be also so small. So a beginner dose to be 5.0001 mg and the strong dose to be 5.0200 or something.
I don't know why I feel this way, but it seems like if the initial number is so low, so should the differences between dose related experiences .....
Oh man im sick and tired and sorry if this does not make any sense...
Dmt in the lungs though, what ever is it doing there?
The endogenous DMT most likely has a different role in the body than to produce psychedelic trips, and for that the dose needed is most likely very small as indeed it is. So it would not make sense to consider it as part of the "ingestion for tripping" process.
dithyramb said:
Then it is only the sheer coincidence that it is also psychoactive? Would this maybe hint towards why we don't have tolerance to it? Also that sounds very interesting, do we know of any other endogenous molecule that our brain does not use, but if increased has a neurological effect?
I think it's because DMT is actually a fairly weak psychedelic substance by weight, compared to LSD, DOx, or substances like 5-MeO-DMT.
Probably has something to do with how strong it binds to the receptors it's active on, but that's most likely only part of a substance's "strength".
The dose response curves of many psycho actives have always baffled me as well. Some substances are notoriously unpredictable because of it.
Probably has something to do with how strong it binds to the receptors it's active on, but that's most likely only part of a substance's "strength".
The dose response curves of many psycho actives have always baffled me as well. Some substances are notoriously unpredictable because of it.
N2O is produced by the body as well, and has severall functions. I believe we even have specific N2O receptors. But unlike with endocannabinoïds and endorphines, it's narcotic and psychedelic effects are probably a coincidence as well.justB612 said:
justB612 said:
Monoamine Oxidase is found in the digestive tract and breaks down certain toxins such as tyramines, tryptamines, etc. that we eat. When you take a MAOI it stops this process in the gut and allows any tryptamines to enter the blood stream thru the digestive tract. DMT isn't produced in the gut. There is no reason for the body to do that as it would immediately be broken down by MOA.
-D.
I recently saw a video on the latest (I think) research into Anandamide in the brain. It apparently has many functions.
Most interestingly, in some it had a role in the brain and then was immediately metabolized/inactivated. Thus, the effects of THC being so different and strong. You're filling your brain with a chemical which normally is ephemeral.
Could DMT have similarities?
Most interestingly, in some it had a role in the brain and then was immediately metabolized/inactivated. Thus, the effects of THC being so different and strong. You're filling your brain with a chemical which normally is ephemeral.
Could DMT have similarities?
reDeMpTion
Rising Star
Good points brought up in here.
I think it's still largely a mystery exactly where DMT is produced in the body. I doubt it's produced under normal circumstances in amounts that would matter as far as being psychedelic, even with an MAOI added to the mix.
Now if we were talking about endogenous serotonin, dopamine, or norepinephrine... then yeah. MAOIs help those stick around longer and would be more noticeable as our bodies normally produce much more of those daily than DMT, and they are also broken down by MAO enzymes. Melatonin too, but I also think it's produced in pretty tiny amounts under certain circumstances like in the dark.
I think it's still largely a mystery exactly where DMT is produced in the body. I doubt it's produced under normal circumstances in amounts that would matter as far as being psychedelic, even with an MAOI added to the mix.
Now if we were talking about endogenous serotonin, dopamine, or norepinephrine... then yeah. MAOIs help those stick around longer and would be more noticeable as our bodies normally produce much more of those daily than DMT, and they are also broken down by MAO enzymes. Melatonin too, but I also think it's produced in pretty tiny amounts under certain circumstances like in the dark.
DMT is present in the brain in concentrations equivalent to that of serotonin.
My hypothesis here is that even though you are increasing the concentration of DMT in the synapse, you are also proportionally increasing every other indolic compound compound, and receptor affinity competition is going to limit how much is able to be taken up.
Now if we could look into developing some selective dimethyltryptamine reuptake inhibitors... 8)
My hypothesis here is that even though you are increasing the concentration of DMT in the synapse, you are also proportionally increasing every other indolic compound compound, and receptor affinity competition is going to limit how much is able to be taken up.
Now if we could look into developing some selective dimethyltryptamine reuptake inhibitors... 8)
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