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If naphthta doesn't pull dmt-n-oxide very well, then should I always add zinc for naphtha pulls?

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Good question Emptiness, I would also like to know that!

I wonder if I just wasted all of this DMT-n-Oxide in my previous extractions that I couldn't pick up because of using naphtha.

I know in the past I have picked up a little DMT-n-oxide with naphtha. I know this because when I converted to fumarate, I decanted the remaining acetone and it left behind residue containing DMT-n-oxide as well as unreacted fumaric acid. One of my friends smoked this and said it produced a mellow high, although I can't imagine smoking fumaric acid isn't all that good for your lungs.
 
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What's the ratio? How much Zinc is needed
to fully convert DMT-n-oxide to DMT? I'm sure you could put the reaction into one of those online Chem calculators to find out. I'm no chemist but would it be worthwhile adding Zinc at the acid step instead?
EDIT it's quite interesting so I did a bit of googling and found out that Zn + NaOH forms sodium zincate with excess NaOH under heated conditions ( not safe to do in your home at all!!)
Zn + 2 NaOH + 2 H2O + 0 C12H16N2O = Na2[Zn(OH)4] + H2 Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer. It could be wrong I'm just an amateur , but if it's right then in this reaction DMT-n-oxide is just a bystander in the reaction, in which case if there is any present it's best to add at the acid stage.
Its impossible to find the formula for DMT-n-oxide C12H16N2O brings up bufo in a search so I can't plug the equation into the calculator with acetic acid to find out the ratio.. Interesting thread..
 
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All search results for "Zinc" and "Zinc Oxide":

DMT N-Oxide to Freebase DMT - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me wiki.dmt-nexus.me


DreaMTripper said:
What's the ratio? How much Zinc is needed
to fully convert DMT-n-oxide to DMT?
Click to expand...

Here is the tek: DMT N-Oxide to Freebase DMT - DMT-Nexus Wiki

The amount of zinc used in the lab for N-Oxide reduction is extremely small. Here is a quote from the third link above
"I cooked the acid stage in crock pot with distilled water at ph 4 using sulfuric acid (from pet store aquarium ph down) I used 3grams of 99% elemental zinc to 32oz water 100grams of 2year old MHRB. Pulled with naptha. basified with sodium hydroxide."
Click to expand...

DreaMTripper said:
EDIT it's quite interesting so I did a bit of googling and found out that Zn + NaOH forms sodium zincate with excess NaOH under heated conditions ( not safe to do in your home at all!!)
Zn + 2 NaOH + 2 H2O + 0 C12H16N2O = Na2[Zn(OH)4] + H2 Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer. It could be wrong I'm just an amateur , but if it's right then in this reaction DMT-n-oxide is just a bystander in the reaction, in which case if there is any present it's best to add at the acid stage.
Its impossible to find the formula for DMT-n-oxide C12H16N2O brings up bufo in a search so I can't plug the equation into the calculator with acetic acid to find out the ratio.. Interesting thread..
Click to expand...

You say it is best to add it in the acid stage but the acid stage will become the NaOH stage as well... meaning it will still form sodium zincate either way??

"After doing some further research, it seems that the main contaminants in commercial zinc are lead (less than 1%) and cadmium (less than 0.08%).

In gasoline (before it was banned for enviromental reasons) tetraethyl-lead or tetramethyl-lead was used as an anti knock additive and was made from an ethylated (or methylated) aluminum compound. I don't think that these nonpolar soluble compounds are liable to be spontaneously formed in an polar acid environment.

Additionally lead acetate ( a polar soluble compound) was routinely used for nondestructive separation of tannins for analysis. If acetic acid were used for a n-oxide reduction then the following freebase stage would precipitate highly insoluble lead carbonate, which would not dissolve in the nonpolar solvent used to pull the nn-dmt.

Based on this I don't believe there would be any lead contamination using commercial grade pyrotechnic zinc dust for n-oxide reduction

Simple Solution: wash the zinc with SWIY's organic solvent, eg. naptha, before you use it. That will remove any possible contaminants that could end up in SWIY's spice. SWIY could even do a test wash and evap the naptha. If there's any residue, you have impurities."
Click to expand...
 
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Emptiness said:
As per this thread DMT n-oxide and zinc.

Oxides goto toluene very well, naphta not so unless really hot.
Click to expand...

If 3/4 of the alkaloids were DMT-n-oxide, by adding zinc I could effectively double my yield. (This is because when adding zinc only half of the DMT-n-oxide will turn in to n-n-dmt)
Click to expand...

To answer your question, Yes! Granted you can afford the supply of Elemental Zinc Powder. The trouble is you don't know how much DMT-n-Oxide is in your acid/bark solution so you would have to just dump an assumed guess in and perhaps filter any remaining powder out before basification.

Great idea though, especially for old bark and P.viridis which contain a high amount of oxides.
 
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Thanks for the link thats a good detailed break down the Nexus is a gold mine of information.

You say it is best to add it in the acid stage but the acid stage will become the NaOH stage as well... meaning it will still form sodium zincate either way??

]
Click to expand...

Well that would depend on the reaction potential of Zinc oxide and NaOH of which I am not familiar with, at a guess it seems likely some would form depending on how much NaOH was used. However by that time
the Zn will have taken the O off the DMT so it's inconsequential, unless sodium zincate is a nopolar compound, doubtful that it's np enough to be pulled by naptha so it may be of no harm even if it does turn up in the mix. Im just putting it out there I have only basic chemistry training maybe someone with more knowledge can analyse the reaction. Contamination of other metals as you highlighted is certainly a safety concern that should be looked into.
 
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fathomlessness said:
Emptiness said:
As per this thread DMT n-oxide and zinc.

Oxides goto toluene very well, naphta not so unless really hot.
Click to expand...

If 3/4 of the alkaloids were DMT-n-oxide, by adding zinc I could effectively double my yield. (This is because when adding zinc only half of the DMT-n-oxide will turn in to n-n-dmt)
Click to expand...

To answer your question, Yes! Granted you can afford the supply of Elemental Zinc Powder. The trouble is you don't know how much DMT-n-Oxide is in your acid/bark solution so you would have to just dump an assumed guess in and perhaps filter any remaining powder out before basification.

Great idea though, especially for old bark and P.viridis which contain a high amount of oxides.
Click to expand...

This is a topic I have watched for a little while. What if one does a xylene, toluene or D-Limo pull (DMT_oxide is soluable in these) then salt again (as if doing a defat stage) with vinegar and incorporate the zinc at this stage. Filter the zinc thoroughly after stirring 2 hours and then basify. Then you wouldn't have any contams from the reaction with the base. Does this sound correct?
 
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Zinc and vinegar form aqueous Zinc acetate which is soluble in water (however Zinc carbonate is not). If the Zn is 100℅ Zinc then once you have added the NaOH the sodium zincate that forms will be a complex ionic Salt with a negative charge and therefore very soluble in NaOH basic solution, like dissolves like so it will stay in solution when the naptha has been added.
The main issue with this whole process seems to be whether the Zinc itself is completely pure.
If you can trust the Zn to be pure then excess Zinc can actually be added as standard at the acid phase. Or for anyone who like experimenting they could pull from the original mix with toluene or xylene evaporate the solvent off then add basic water (pH 9-10 just a small ammount of NaOH needed at this point) and Zn to the extract, heat in a water bath (plenty of ventilation needed and safety goggles and a fume mask) to speed up the reaction, allow to cool then add excess NaOH and pull with naptha.
 
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skoobysnax said:
fathomlessness said:
Emptiness said:
As per this thread DMT n-oxide and zinc.

Oxides goto toluene very well, naphta not so unless really hot.
Click to expand...

If 3/4 of the alkaloids were DMT-n-oxide, by adding zinc I could effectively double my yield. (This is because when adding zinc only half of the DMT-n-oxide will turn in to n-n-dmt)
Click to expand...

To answer your question, Yes! Granted you can afford the supply of Elemental Zinc Powder. The trouble is you don't know how much DMT-n-Oxide is in your acid/bark solution so you would have to just dump an assumed guess in and perhaps filter any remaining powder out before basification.

Great idea though, especially for old bark and P.viridis which contain a high amount of oxides.
Click to expand...

This is a topic I have watched for a little while. What if one does a xylene, toluene or D-Limo pull (DMT_oxide is soluable in these) then salt again (as if doing a defat stage) with vinegar and incorporate the zinc at this stage. Filter the zinc thoroughly after stirring 2 hours and then basify. Then you wouldn't have any contams from the reaction with the base. Does this sound correct?
Click to expand...

That would be one way to know roughly how much zinc is needed because you would know how much dmt-n-oxide there was but I am afraid that would be adding an extra step that doesn't need to be taken. As we you can see from DreaMTripper's research, the reaction won't be a problem as it won't go in to the naphtha. The only issue is with heavy metals from the zinc which if you do a defat with naphtha on the zinc before adding the zinc in to the acidic brew, should take care of it all.
 
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DreaMTripper said:
Contamination of other metals as you highlighted is certainly a safety concern that should be looked into.
Click to expand...

DreaMTripper said:
The main issue with this whole process seems to be whether the Zinc itself is completely pure.
If you can trust the Zn to be pure then excess Zinc can actually be added as standard at the acid phase.
Click to expand...


Great, thanks for doing the research and letting me know that the zinc->NaOH reaction is safe and not a concern.

Contamination of other metals can be solved by doing a naphtha defat on the Zinc before adding it to the acidic brew.
 
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