IM DMT : how to obtain the right purity?

[Quetzal7]

Hello Folks
I'm a voluteer in a university study about spiritual state, hallucination and the relative effects on the brain.
We smoked changa and went into an MRI ; that was a really interesting and strange experience

(i asked advice about this here : Changa in MRI: need advices! - Philosophy - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus )

But, as predicted, that has not been ideal. we can't smoke inside the MRI, so by the time we get inside the MRI, the peak experience is waning away.

One of the doctor would be interested in having a couple datas with intra muscular injection. They have the authorization to handle DMT obviously; but to source it officially seems difficult and prohibitively expensive. (any info on that would be welcome thou)

I was wondering, what it takes to purify DMT to the point where it's safe to inject? what purity are we speaking about ? and what advance purification technique could be used in a university lab ?

(my B plan for them would be to predose the volunteers with 100mg harmalas before smoking the changa, so at least we get a much longer effect, and the scan would include the effect of the Harmalas which are wonderful compound to investigate)

 

[Tony6Strings]

I've thought about this.

If it were me, I would use dmt from mimosa, purify the hell out of it, double re-x. I don't know about spice fumerates, I've never made them, but that's what you would want, and as clean and pure as you possibly can. The information on how to do that is here on the nexus.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Is oral administration inviable? You'd have plenty of time to get into the MRI that way, and they'd have lots of time to study you. It's like 10,000 years of oldschool, but it does the job.

Also, if you're injecting something, from a safety perspective, paying for something with a guaranteed purity is priceless. I understand there's not exactly tons of money flowing into this research, though.

This is super interesting. Please keep us updated.

 

[null24]

I would think you'd want a synthetic Hcl or the like for that. What are the other studies with this roa using? Also, I'd second the oral route, since you are already mixing harmalas, it wouldn't corrupt your findings, and you'd have lots of time-maybe more than your looking for though. If anything IV/IM would decrease the metabolism time.

And the risk of infection is far greater with an IM route.

 

[RoundAbout]

Is there not a difference between the purity you'd feel comfortable injecting vs. the purity doctors would be comfortable injecting or otherwise being involved with?

 

[VibeSurfer]

Is there not a difference between the purity you'd feel comfortable injecting vs. the purity doctors would be comfortable injecting or otherwise being involved with?

It has more to do with the nature of the impurities than the percentage. When researchers are administering injected DMT fumarate, they know what synthesis method was used, where they got it from, what precursors were used, equipment involved, etc.

For example, you can at least be certain no plant fats or oils will be present in synthetic DMT and therefore will not end up causing problems when injected into a muscle or straight into the bloodstream. An NPS like naptha won’t evap 100% clean from dmt either unless you leave it out to dry for a loooong time and have continuously cut it up with a razor or something and even then, how do you know?

 

[Squidfayce]

Difficult? Cost prohibitive? This is a university? Something about this story doesn't add up.

A university conducting such a study would be aware of how to obtain pure reference samples from any number of legitimate chemical wholesalers.

 

[Quetzal7]

Thanks for all the replies so far

Difficult? Cost prohibitive? This is a university? Something about this story doesn't add up.

A university conducting such a study would be aware of how to obtain pure reference samples from any number of legitimate chemical wholesalers.

Not necessarily. This is their first exploration, maybe one of the first study (if not the first) of the kind in Portugal. There's just no knowledge of what's so ever about anything psychedelic.
I spoke with a researcher far more informed, veteran of the psychedelic research, he suggested that it would be "easier" to synthesize it at the university than to buy it... but i'm not sure how "easy" it would be. You guys have to imagine that's it's not just a question of means and money, but a whole administrative nightmare.

Oral route : this is the final goal. Their study is design around ayahuasca. Ultimately they would like to serve ayahuasca and get a 45 min scan on all the participants. But there's several issues. The researcher themself aren't capable of holding the space for the 6-8h. There's no proper "ceremony" space (yet) close enough the MRI machine. Then, there's the body load and not improbable risk of purging... ( and pharmahuasca don't reduce that risk by much in my experience)
So for now, this preliminary pilote study is a warm up so they can deal with altered state in their patient, test their questionaires, and probably tune their scan parameters/routine.

So, they can definitively make a analysis of a sample of pure DMT (wherever it's from) and assess if it's suited for injection; at least that's one idea, out of the many possibilites.

 

[Squidfayce]

What im saying is any university researcher would be aware of access to a
material, psychedelic or not. And if that person specifically didnt, they would have acces to litterally dozens of staff at the university that would know. Eg- If the university chemistry lab needs to order hydrochloric acid, they order it from a chemical supply company. This is the same process for ordering standards.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

But, as predicted, that has not been ideal. we can't smoke inside the MRI, so by the time we get inside the MRI, the peak experience is waning away.

Did you consider the suggestion I had in the other thread of vaporizing the changa into a plastic bag with this https://www.storz-bickel.com/en-us/volcano-hybrid and taking the hit from the bag when you are lying down in the MRI machine?

They vapor should be ok to take indoors, as there are no smoke particles that cause alarms or make the smell stay.

There are several topics on this method. May be a bit tricky to master, haven't tried myself. I did get a breakthrough with the mighty vaporizer though. (Check for example Volcano 101 - Other - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus )

Another idea is to take the hit indoors from a direct e-mesh or e-cig juice vaporizer, then quickly walk into the MRI machine so you might get there while experience the peak experience. Vapor shouldn't be problem indoors.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Purging in an MRI :shock: Point taken.

 

[Quetzal7]

But, as predicted, that has not been ideal. we can't smoke inside the MRI, so by the time we get inside the MRI, the peak experience is waning away.

Did you consider the suggestion I had in the other thread of vaporizing the changa into a plastic bag with this https://www.storz-bickel.com/en-us/volcano-hybrid and taking the hit from the bag when you are lying down in the MRI machine?

They vapor should be ok to take indoors, as there are no smoke particles that cause alarms or make the smell stay.

There are several topics on this method. May be a bit tricky to master, haven't tried myself. I did get a breakthrough with the mighty vaporizer though. (Check for example Volcano 101 - Other - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus )

Another idea is to take the hit indoors from a direct e-mesh or e-cig juice vaporizer, then quickly walk into the MRI machine so you might get there while experience the peak experience. Vapor shouldn't be problem indoors.

yes , we discussed these ideas ; one of the researcher is working on this solution. Unfortunatly, there's one last ridiculous issue. We are not supposed to remove our covid mask indoor. Most of them think this is a it extreme, but some of the technician don't want to break any rules (well, you should see their face the first time we came for the trial... this whole research is a bit out of their confort zone ... ).
for me, the whole baloon thing is a bit overkill. i have a GVG, that's good enough. There's no smoke involve (a lighter flame don't really make smoke, does it ? )

 

[RoundAbout]

It has more to do with the nature of the impurities than the percentage. When researchers are administering injected DMT fumarate, they know what synthesis method was used, where they got it from, what precursors were used, equipment involved, etc.

For example, you can at least be certain no plant fats or oils will be present in synthetic DMT and therefore will not end up causing problems when injected into a muscle or straight into the bloodstream. An NPS like naptha won’t evap 100% clean from dmt either unless you leave it out to dry for a loooong time and have continuously cut it up with a razor or something and even then, how do you know?

I think any university would run both NMR and MS at least before injecting anyone with anything they synthesized or extracted.

I feel like this discussion lacks the specifics about what the researchers are allowed to do, in terms of approval from an ethics board/committee and the university avoiding litigation. I know next to nothing about this, but I can't imagine those are not relevant points.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Would you be able to get access to some kind of 15 minute/rapid covid test for the sake of performing the experiment?

 

[Tomtegubbe]

for me, the whole baloon thing is a bit overkill. i have a GVG, that's good enough. There's no smoke involve (a lighter flame don't really make smoke, does it ? )

Sounds good you are progressing! The metal parts of the lighter might be a problem though if the MRI machine is on.

I hope you manage to continue the research. I imagine analyzing the data can be really hard, but it's a start. We might even get some hints on the so called hard problem of consciousness as the studies get more precise. Like, what part of the brain needs to get activated or deactivated for the mind to access the collective consciousness. Encountering archetypal figures is a factual part of DMT experience, although not many brain / consciousness researchers have any idea about this yet.

 

[grimlid]

Hello Folks

I was wondering, what it takes to purify DMT to the point where it's safe to inject? what purity are we speaking about ? and what advance purification technique could be used in a university lab ?

Id say a lab grade heptane pull, double re ex and also a water wash after re ex #2 with distilled water or bacteriostatic water and a separator funnel several times. it gets incredible clean in my opinion this way. My experience is that lye always carries over at least a bit. its so much easier to get high from dmt this way in my opinion (when I intake by vape or pipe). Though I have never injected, I would in a clinical environment.
Realistically, synthesized DMT is pretty doable also if you know a legitimate chemistry student.
Really interesting topic.