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In which 4-fluoroamphetamine (4-FA) is explored

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nexalizer

Rising Star
Hello Nexus,

The other day I set aside the morning to evaluate the usefulness of 4-FA as a nootropic/functional stimulant.

Being aware that normal doses (100-150mg) should cause delicious euphoria, I opted to go with just 30mg, which is 20mg below most listings I've seen for a small dose - 50mg.

Below are my findings.


About 1 hour in, very, very gradually things brightened up a bit. I focused inwards and suddenly my mood was in a pretty good place (before was normal, now was happy-for-no-reason).

Throughout the whole experience I would class the effects as subtle (remember: 30mg), and particularly at this early stage it would be easy to mistake them for just placebo.


The senses of touch, smell and hearing became more sensitive, and simply enjoying the warm summer breeze coming in from the open window was greatly enjoyable.

By then (T + ~1h30) it was becoming increasingly obvious that this would not work as a nootropic due to the very positive effects on mood.

Physically the only noticeable difference was a very minor increase in heartrate. Everything felt find, body and mind.

Thoughts, when I had to summon them (I found that like MDMA or mushrooms, this one also emptied my mind of thoughts rather than accelerating them - would bet this is dose dependant and likely to be reversed at higher ones), were crystal clear.


This state was somehow conductive to introspection, but really I felt extremely sociable, and also it was easy to get distracted. So I was alternating between exploring some topics and writing about them, chatting on the nexus chat, and chatting with some friends over xmpp.

Physically, as one might expect from an amphetamine, the sensation of hunger completely disappeared - all I had was a banana 2 hours before, so going into the experience some hunger was present.

And while it never progressed to cottonmouth, I would attribute that to frequent water intake. Even at such a low dose it definitely moved things in that direction.


So the experience stayed in that happy giddy must-socialize so-distracted-lols plateau for another 2 hours or so, and then gradually, very very gradually, it tapered down.

It was incredibly smooth all the way through. And it left absolutely no negative symptoms afterwards. Frankly I can't tell you when it finally ended, because the fading was so gradual.




In light of these facts, I would say that as a nootropic, this substance is useless. Apparently 2-FMA is excellent for that purpose - somehow I missed it during the research stage or this report would have likely been about 2-FMA instead.

However, as a social lubricant, there seems to be good, if not great value here. I can envision this as a substance to take with some friends, talking about life, playing some guitar.

Even in terms of introspection I must say it was valuable, but I attribute 80% of that to having been able to chat about what was going through my mind with a good friend while the effects were manifesting - once again, the social component.



While I am curious to see how the effects evolve at 50mg, 75mg and 100mg, it is likely that the nexus will have to wait a long time for these reports to come in - like previously stated, it does have serotonin releasing properties, and I am particularly senstive to serotonin changes, which has the unequivocal result of having absolutely no desire whatsoever to take one more than a couple of times a year.

Feel free to ask any questions, hope you enjoyed reading, as I have definitely enjoyed sharing one more excursion into uncharted territory with you all.

:)
 
4-FA def. generates a pleasant feeling, I remember sitting in my computer chair, just completely content which can be described as meditating with open eyes. No hunger or no need to move. Just deep amphetamine breathing - at a low dose (can't remember ~50mg ish? I always go for 1/2 what Erowid recommends). But I think that's also the trap of 4-FA. If a substances makes me content for no reason and suppressing hunger & thirst, I become suspicious. I really had to force myself into the kitchen to eat and drink. So I stopped it after 3 or 4 times after I ran out of the ~120mg sample I got.

Certainly an interesting substance and okay for a happy time or two, but if one has a addictive mentality, stay away from it. It's like a mentally clearer version of MDMA. And known to be neurotoxic.

Oh, because nootropic activity was mentioned. The first two times I took it (dose 20-50mgish?), I became very creative with photoshop. But increased logical thinking... nah, I don't think so.
 
It's the most useful entactogen i've ever tried. I would opt for 50-150mg and use it for introspective purposes, therapy, reading. As reading is a form of manipulating the mind and ingesting information. This substance helps with processing, categorizing and manipulating information. I find that socially there is a huge boost in mental capacity to dig into the mind in order to analyze the feelings and thoughts that surface when bringing up a mental scene.

i.e. I went out and met this person. Who treated me like this and this is how I felt about it and this is what I think should be done. Normally there would be more fog but this feels more easily done this way. When used respectfully; Euphory is just a natural by-product that comes with being able to lucidly formulate ideas and plans into the future. When used in this matter there is almost no come-down to reality because it feels like the mind has greatly improved and never went back down.

As diet is concerned there is a need for supplementation which I am still researching. I suspect sunlight to be an essential component that helps with most of my come-down crashes. And some slow-sugar to help calm metabolism. As with any amphetamine the danger is in it's subtle wrecking of the memory. I believe abuse of the substance results in accelerated aging of the brain, mainly the same pathology that you see in Alzheimer's disease. Which coincidentally lines up with the same pathalogy that is triggered by lack of sleep. :)

Substances that I think may be useful supplements: Ginko Balboa, Turmeric, Galantamine

I've had quite a severe crash when used without supplementing, daylight soakings in light or food. Resulting in feeling empty, ill, dizzy. Which never seems to happen when these 3 neccesities are taken care for. Even when lacking in any form of sleep in one trial for up to 2.5 days. I suspect it's limit could be placed much further.

Do not try insufflating 4-FA. It doesn't feel very good at all and brings about internal nose-bleeds. It doesn't seem to be very bio-available in this route anyhow! I would love to compare the difference in the future with this and 4-FMA.

Have a nice day!
 
Infectedstyle, if you crash, I think you're taking too much. I only took it 3 or 4 times, so not much experience here, but I didn't crash from low doses. Getting out of the hunger/thirst trap is important, so stay always hydrated (mind the electrolytes) and have a semi-full stomach. Strong antioxidants, like blueberries, green tea (EGCG), vitamin c & e & lipoic acid should also be consumed, before and after the trip. With green tea one might need lower doses, as it is a stimulant on its own.

I also think that the dosis suggestions on Erowid are too damn high, haha ;) What they consider a threshold dose I'd call a normal doses. Because what they considered the normal dose for MDMC left me unpleasantly overstimulated for hours. I was ~70kg at that time, normal health state, but I what I've learned with amphetamines is to go for low doses and only up, when it's necessary.

From wikipedia: 4-Fluoroamphetamine is a releasing agent and reuptake inhibitor of dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine.

4-FA will definitely help you with brain-aging in no time. Also the releasing of serotonin might affect the 5HT2B-receptor (like fenfluramine and MDMA), so frequent 4-FA abuse could also damage the heart (just a guess here, but I think it's likely).
 
Ufostrahlen, It's not so much a crash, I think it's a depletion of vitamine(s), after 1 consumption of 4-fa and then more in a 3 days space even if it's only a little will deliver intense feelings of well-being for 2 hours after consumption which is shortly followed by feeling drained.

With dextroamphetamine I get similar results, I know that taking much isn't healthy, but most people are able to push it to absurd amounts while my body rejects any further experimenting with these substances quickly after a few 100 MGs by making me dizzy, almost blacking out, extremely nauseous and when pushing it further it most notably forces my breathing pattern to entire lung-fulls before exhaling and there's nothing I can do to stop it from happening.

It will take at least 2 weeks, quite possibly longer before I can dose again, any dose taken before full recovery, even a small bump of dextroamphtetamine will trigger similar results it's like my body goes into it's farthest emergency state and something seriously is wrong.

I have noticed in my research that sufficient sunlight, choline, this could have been it, and L-Theanine, basically guesswork helped to make any of these patterns go away because I have taken consequent dosing of 4-FA in the past days and feel no stress whatsoever. I know it's not the same as dextroamphetamine but I feel the pattern is similar. I figure it must have been the choline because I do feel as if I can take absurd amounts now without feeling those horrible crashes. I do feel a little headache, I'd say I am feeling a slight down-curve as we speak, as I have not-supplemented or dosed for about 7 hours. I could probably do well to eat some fruits and get anti-oxidants. hmm, those blueberries you mentioned kind of sound nice right now. 😁 Because I feel as if the slight strains/hedache on my head are oxidants and not just sleep but also antioxidants are required to remove them, further dosing will result in further damaging of the brain!

Sorry if my post comes across a bit messy . :love:
 
Infectedstyle said:
Because I feel as if the slight strains/hedache on my head are oxidants and not just sleep but also antioxidants are required to remove them, further dosing will result in further damaging of the brain!
Yup, sounds like not enough hydration and/or inflammation. Choline is good, as it detoxes the liver.
Maybe 400mgs of Ibuprofen to stop the inflammation if your system can take it and a cup of green tea for EGCG (antioxidant) and stimulation, the caffeine detoxes the liver as well. 1,5l of water with 300mgs of magnesium should help with the nerves and hydration. You could try some good quality bud while coming down, because it is shown with MDMA, that MDMA raises the body temperature and with that neurotoxicity increases. THC stops that. Maybe this works analogous to 4-FA.

Also take breaks. I think with prolonged serotonin release, synapse degradation is likely to occur, as shown with MDMA. I think this substance should be treated like MDMA. As Shulgin said: 4 times a year is okay.

PS: the normal clinical dose of d-amphetamine is ~ 30mgs for adults. A few 100 mgs is absurd and plain abuse. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2007/021303s015lbl.pdf
 
I have a very good diet, exercise most days, get plenty of sleep and during the experiment kept more hydrated than otherwise would.

In such conditions, getting a crash from a reasonable dose of this seems unlikely.

Do any of you have experience with 2-FMA ? It seems to be exactly what I was looking for (a functional stimulant/nootropic for very occasional use), though it was a happy accident to discover 4-FA :lol:
 
Ufostrahlen said:
Also take breaks. I think with prolonged serotonin release, synapse degradation is likely to occur, as shown with MDMA. I think this substance should be treated like MDMA. As Shulgin said: 4 times a year is okay.

Even though it feels far more benevolent than MDMA on the body/brain, I am inclined to agree. It seems like a trap, doing this stuff any more than once every 3 months or so.
 
For future reference for anyone who happens to try this in the future, there seems to be severe cross-tolerance between 4-FA and Mescaline (possibly others, of course).

It had been a week since the mescaline trip, and I decided to see how 50mg of this (4-FA) felt like. Same batch as the original report, so I know that's not it.


The effects were LESS interesting than 30mg, and the slight euphoria was not even present; there was no opening up or enhancement of tactile sensations either (entactogen/empathogen aspects fully absent) - all I got was a not unpleasant stimulation that mostly manifested as a marked inclination to verbalize, at least in the initial hours; Later it downgraded to a barely-unpleasant come-down (which, remember, was entirely absent on the previous trial). Nothing serious, and no side effects. Just meh for some hours.


To sum it up, don't bother taking 4-FA one week after Mescaline (in fact, I would possibly extend the rule to most/all psychedelics).

I was not aware that an amphetamine could be affected by cross tolerance with a psychedelic like this. Lesson learned.
 
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