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Introducing people to DMT

Migrated topic.
Redguard said:
if someone can't handle the full effects of dmt they really shouldn't be smoking small quantities of it anyways.
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I have to disagree. This stuff scares the daylights out of me, and it's only on the odd occasion that I feel I should be experimenting. Maybe because I've only had one breakthrough and I'm not anywhere close to being used to it, but I find small doses can be really enjoyable, and help me to get back in touch with experiences with other substances that I've had in the past.
 
Deleriant said:
Redguard said:
if someone can't handle the full effects of dmt they really shouldn't be smoking small quantities of it anyways.
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I have to disagree. This stuff scares the daylights out of me, and it's only on the odd occasion that I feel I should be experimenting. Maybe because I've only had one breakthrough and I'm not anywhere close to being used to it, but I find small doses can be really enjoyable, and help me to get back in touch with experiences with other substances that I've had in the past.
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Is it the pre-trip anxiety that scares you, or is it the trips you get that scare you? I get a lot of pre trip anxiety at times but once i'm immersed into the experience fear isn't really taken into consideration.
 
My sub-breakthrough experiences with spice have been some of the most beautiful and meaningful of my journeys. Small doses are an important way to go so that you can build a relationship with the entheogen you intend to embark on a journey with. The tortoise won the race with the hare by applying the philosophy of slow and steady wins the race... Not that its about winning but the meaning behind the story rings true.


Much Peace and Compassion
 
For me, sharing this experience and wisdom feels necessary. I have shared it with 6-7, as I'm well aware it's definitely NOT for everyone. I have shared my personal experience with a number of people, and the few that have expressed interest, I have "initiated." (Very few, really.) I feel that Spice offers the experience of one's Self (as opposed to the self we are usually occupying).
That being said, I am a mature adult, and have been in the spiritual community for decades, so the people I know that are ready to try it are consciousness explorers. None of the people I know would abuse such a sacred thing, and I present Spice as a sacrament. This communion includes a cleansing ceremony and focused meditation/blessing. I also have only shared it with people who would do the research, then return and expressed interest. I also try a little to scare them out of it. I know it sounds strange, but if they can't handle what I say, they have no business in hyperspace.
Last weekend my wife and I initiated a husband and wife who were very interested. It was the most beautiful experience to see one of our friends open his eyes. It was like welcoming him home! To see him WAKE UP like that - saying, "It all makes so much sense now." To see someone "get it" like that brought both of us inexpressible joy. We both sat quietly with him during his journey, tears streaming down our faces.
I think of it as God's Work to share the experience of a person to experiencing his or her true Self. I believe I was instructed the first time I journeyed to do the extractions and share the experience. Further, I do not believe a person has to "work" with the Spice. Since my first journey, I have realized that during that first journey, I received all the information. All of it. I did not remember it all when I returned, but it has come to me piece at a time, as I was ready. As I go through my everyday life, I make constant connections to those minutes. There is no reason why all the information there is to know can't be "downloaded" during one 5-minute journey. After all, time doesn't really exist, and the DMT journey takes place between the moments, anyway.
Sharing the Spice has been rewarding for both of us, and the handful of people I have shared it with have considered it a powerful and profoundly meaningful gift.
The journey of DMT is a religious experience to me, and I can't even imagine keeping it to myself.
 
I have shared DMT with numerous people. Every person I have dosed has had a breakthrough experience. Every person I have dosed also received at least a 30-60 minute talk on dmt immediately prior to their first session, reviewing what falls in the range of normal, the kind of feelings that may be encountered and numerous safety precautions. At one point I had a print out of Strassman's informed consent form (mainly as a joke, but also so people could see how those in the study were "warned" about what they might experience). The following is all my opinion, take it for what you will:

I am adamantly against low-dosing people as an introduction to dmt. It engenders little respect for the molecule when people who have used it are not aware of its true power. I think that underdosing people on dmt potentially serves to make light of the experience or at the very least fails to inform the user about what dmt truly is. If you have already decided to introduce an individual to dmt, they better damn well be prepared for what it has to offer. I wasn't inviting joe shmoes off the street to try dmt, this was something that was only proffered to people who had an interest and a history with psychedelics (and was mainly restricted only to people who I knew peronsally and had close relationships with).

One of my roommates had smoked dmt before and thought that it was some weird shit. He wasn't a huge fan of it, but promised to try mine. He had not had a breakthrough and was overall unimpressed with it, finding it more weird than anything else (he also thought I was a condescending douchebag for using the term "breakthrough", as it made no sense to him, given his experience with dmt). When I packed his hit and he broke through, he came back with a massive smile on his face and all he could say was "I understand breathrough now" he went on to say how his earlier expereince didn't come close to what he had just experienced.

I dosed low a couple times and did not find it to be overly enjoyable (now i find it more enjoyable, but more because it allows me to tap into my deeper voyages). One of my friends dosed low and got caught in the colors of the tunnel he was in. These early low-dose experiences convinced me that the first time someone is introduced to dmt, it should be with full disclosure of what the molecule can do and the experience should match that. No pussyfooting around, if the individual has the desire to try the spice and you decide that they can handle it, they should be presented with the most full and comprehensive experience you can provide them, so that they can truly see for themselves what dmt is and not have misconceptions about it or take it as anything less than that which it is.
 
I know researching before doing it is important, but why? You can read a lot about it and still not have a fuckin clue about its power, not until you smoke it. So well. It's a profound spiritual experience no one on earth can be ready for. Why be so cautious about introducing others to it? You were not ready your first time either. None of you were. If someone's brain cant accept what DMT has to show, I guess he will just forget about the experience, doesnt it happen for any shocking-unexplainable experience? Or else he will face and 'metabolize' it.

I have never breakthrough.
 
Hiei said:
You were not ready your first time either. None of you were. If someone's brain cant accept what DMT has to show, I guess he will just forget about the experience, doesnt it happen for any shocking-unexplainable experience? Or else he will face and 'metabolize' it.

I have never breakthrough.
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you don't "just forget"

that stuff comes back to haunt you...
 
Is there really such a thing as a bad trip with DMT ? How can you have one when your ego is made into pieces and brought back together in less than 5 minutes? I was afraid when on the edge of a breakthrough, of course, but can fear follow you in hyperspace too?
 
You bet your ass it can - like no fear you've EVER experienced.

I think PTSD is a very real concern for someone who doesn't react well to the experience. Saying there's no such thing as a bad 5 minute trip is naive and uninformed.

If you haven't broken through, you don't have a clue. Go deep yourself before getting all cavalier with other people's sanity.
 
Lately when I smoke, Ive been dosing higher..and durring the peak I dissolve, like Im gone. In that case there is no fear, maybe a moment of like "wholy crap!"..but by the time I finish the thought I am in the trance too deep to know any better.

But I have had 2 experiences with smoked DMT that scared the hell out of me. One was my first real breakthough, and the fear came after I was comming back trying to figure out what the hell just happened to me, while I was still so deep into it..the other one was like I broke though but my ego remained and there was weird robots and stuff and I just sort of lost it.

But sure, you can have fear in a 5 minute trip..ever smoked salvia? I wont even give it to people anymore cus more often than not they are devistated.

I dont necessarily think freaking out is a bad thing though. I also think that in part PTSD is a by product of how these kinds of experiences are dealt with, recieved by others etc..like people who take LSD and have a real heavy experience, and people tell them they are loosing it, dont support them and just let it happen. Instead they send them off to some hospital or mental ward where they arent qualified to do anything other than lable you psychotic. In a traditional setting youd be supported more becasue these things are accepted and these states just come with the territory at times. Having others around you that have been there and know what its like and can assure you that its ok to go insane sometimes can make all the difference..To be a good sitter is to be a good shaman. Thats all shamans are..people who have been there, just people who know some tricks..they are not magical or miracle workers..just people. A good sitter is one who has been there..has been over that edge and back and is willing to be 100% present for another while they walk that road.

I know this becasue I lost it really badly abotu 3 weeks ago on a handful of mushrooms, but I knew what was going on..I had been there and trusted Id be ok..and I was. If I hadnt had that experience to fall back on Id have checked myself in..so if this had been my first time an experienced and empathic guide would have been priceless.

So being that kind of sitter is always important. If you dont think you can handle someone going through that and can support them and make them know that its ok to freak out..then dont give it to anyone.
 
So is it comparable to a salvia breakthrough? I've had a couple with her and I wasnt that much afraid because I knew I was smoking salvia. I was very anxious before smoking it but I knew that I was about to have a ground breaking experience. Maybe that's all you need to know? be prepared for the unpredictable?
 
Hiei said:
So is it comparable to a salvia breakthrough? I've had a couple with her and I wasnt that much afraid because I knew I was smoking salvia. I was very anxious before smoking it but I knew that I was about to have a ground breaking experience. Maybe that's all you need to know? be prepared for the unpredictable?
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If you broke through with salvia and remembered that you had smoked it, then it wasn’t a very deep breakthrough. Here are some things I’ve experienced:

A deep salvia breakthrough will leave you with no knowledge that you had taken salvia. No knowledge of your prior existence, no identity, no memories of humanity, or life on earth. You will be in a strange new place, you very likely will be either disembodied or “embodied” as an inanimate object, you will not know how you got there. You may realize that you had a prior existence, but you will have no memories of it.

You will know with 100% certainty that this new existence is now permanent. You will not be going back to whatever you were before. This may cause you to become afraid, or resigned to your strange fate.

As strange and powerful as salvia can be, it never gives me the per-launch anxiety that DMT often does. There are some DMT experiences for which you cannot be prepared.

This is a very serious journey that you’re considering.
 
A deep salvia breakthrough will leave you with no knowledge that you had taken salvia. No knowledge of your prior existence, no identity, no memories of humanity, or life on earth. You will be in a strange new place, you very likely will be either disembodied or “embodied” as an inanimate object, you will not know how you got there. You may realize that you had a prior existence, but you will have no memories of it.

You will know with 100% certainty that this new existence is now permanent. You will not be going back to whatever you were before. This may cause you to become afraid, or resigned to your strange fate.
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That is a great description of the salvia state Gibran2 - that is precisely what happens to me and why it scares me so. Not only do you know that this new existence is now permanent, you feel certain that whatever existence you had prior never actually existed, and that you have now ultimately returned to what is real - and to what you have always been and always will be. For eternity. And sometimes the 5-min experience is stretched to hours, weeks... as if to drive the point home.

SPOOKY stuff. For me anyway. But elucidating if you can handle the horror.

JBArk
 
Yes that's what it was like for me too. I didnt know I had smoked salvia while I was "there" (or I wasnt thinking about it) I was communicating with the entities of the room and smiling at them. (actually they were trying to go to the next room and I was kinda helping them to do so). The worst part was when I got back to reality, which, as you said, felt like just a big fake, and I wanted to go back to the Real place.

I know how strong a salvia breakthrough can be, so if you tell me DMT is no less no more than that, it's fine... I know my mind is more than what I know.
 
First you say this:

Hiei said:
So is it comparable to a salvia breakthrough? I've had a couple with her and I wasnt that much afraid because I knew I was smoking salvia.
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And then you say this:

Hiei said:
Yes that's what it was like for me too. I didnt know I had smoked salvia while I was "there"
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So which is it?

If you don’t believe that there is such a thing as a difficult DMT experience, then I’m not going to try to convince you otherwise. Good luck!
 
I think one of the most important parts of introducing someone to a drug like dmt is don't try to explain to them whats its like or what to expect or what to get out of it. If they are curious and understand that it will all be over in a few minutes or hours (if using oral) thats all they need to know. Of course the person should be mentally stable and previous experience with psychedelics also helps.
 
It's not like I dont believe there is such a thing, I just want to understand better how it happens.

with "I knew I was smoking salvia" I meant that I was ready for everything to happen that night. I knew her powers and that, since the moment I inhaled, everything could happen.

Now you are right when you say you dont know who you are and what you have done to be there when you breakthrough, but why be afraid then? afraid of what exactly? I'm all ears if somebody wants to tell of a bad experience he's had with dmt. Please.
 
The experience reports have a propensity of difficult journeys. 88 just had an experience that put his spice up on the shelf. Felnik hit a place many of us have been to. Jmaxton felt like an assault came at hir.
 
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