Is 10x caapi even possible?

[redeyes drag on]

is 10x in regards to the alkaloid content and therefore potency?
If so, assuming caapi leaf is 20% alkaloids by weight (this is a rough estimate) the most potent one could make caapi leaf would be 5x by weight. Am I missing something here or does 10x just mean you extracted alks from 9g leaf and put into 1g leaf? (even if this results in 4g final product) Logically this does not make sense.

 

[Sky Motion]

10x doesn't have anything to do with alk content when they say 10x, it just means you took for example, 10g of leaf, and made it into 1g of leaf. So that it's 10x stronger.

 

[redeyes drag on]

Okay, but you do realize there is no way possible to end up with 1g of leaf from 10g leaf.

 

[۩]

Water is a solvent that pulls alkaloids from the 10g into a solution that when evaporated onto 1g the alkaloids from the 10g absorb into the 1g making the 10x. WIN

 

[redeyes drag on]

Yeah ۩, this is the method I used but after evaporating onto the 1g the final product weighs ~4g. Is this considered to be 4g of 10x caapi?

 

[۩]

yeah I would only use a gram of that per gram of DMT.

 

[redeyes drag on]

Alright, thanks.

 

[smokerx]

It id not entirely true. So see if you take 9g and evaporate it on 1g you would have theoretically 1g of 10x that is true but only if you end up with one gram. If you end up with 4g instead of 1g then it is not 10x it is 2.5x in one gram of leafs.

The calculation : 9g + 1g = 10g of leafs 10 / 4 = 2.5

So each gram is approximately 2.5x stronger

That is how I understand it and it make sense IMHO

So to make 10x you would have to start with much more than 10g of leafs

 

[tony]

This has popped up a few times, I agree with smokerx. If you have 4g of plant material containing the alkaloid content of 10g then you have 2.5x

The example I gave in the other thread is: if you get given a gram of 15x salvia, then you would expect that the gram you have has 15x the content of a gram of plain salvia leaf. The "x" (in my opinion, and I think most other people's) is an indicator of the strength factor by weight.

You can make 10x caapi, but I don't think it can be done by by boiling leaves and evapping. The strongest I've managed with that method is 7x, but I assume that using the other, more selective, methods (such as soaking in IPA or ethanol) would result in far less gain in weight and therefore more possible potency increase.

 

[redeyes drag on]

yeah smokerx, this is what makes the most sense to me. but in regards to salvia do you think this is really true? for example if some 10x salvia contains x amount of mg of salvatorin A per gram would some 50x salvia contain 5 times as much of the active component? From what I've experienced the labeling system for salvia is all based off a different reference point and 50x from one source could be substantially less than even 40x from another source.

Tony, don't you think there is a maximum amount of alks or whatever else gives caapi leaf its potency that can be put into a gram of leaf? Say if the weight of what is extracted from 10g of leaf is by itself > 1g. When SWIM evaped the extract from 45g of leaf onto 5g the result was 22.7g of matter, just a little over 2x. Also using the other methods, such as IPA or methanol, isn't this resulting in less of a weight gain because less of the alks are being extracted?

 

[tony]

Tony, don't you think there is a maximum amount of alks or whatever else gives caapi leaf its potency that can be put into a gram of leaf? Say if the weight of what is extracted from 10g of leaf is by itself > 1g. When SWIM evaped the extract from 45g of leaf onto 5g the result was 22.7g of matter, just a little over 2x. Also using the other methods, such as IPA or methanol, isn't this resulting in less of a weight gain because less of the alks are being extracted?

There will be a maximum, I have no idea what it is though.

Using a method such as soaking in IPA or ethanol causes less final increase in weight not because you are pulling less alks but because you are pulling less other crap. Doing a dirty water extraction, just boiling the leaves and then evapping onto plain leaf, is pulling lots of other stuff, not just harmalas, and the other stuff adds weight. Pulling with IPA or something is giving you higher concentrated alks. I've never actually done an IPA caapi extraction so I don't know what sort of weight increases are involved.

 

[gibran2]

is 10x in regards to the alkaloid content and therefore potency?
If so, assuming caapi leaf is 20% alkaloids by weight (this is a rough estimate) the most potent one could make caapi leaf would be 5x by weight. Am I missing something here or does 10x just mean you extracted alks from 9g leaf and put into 1g leaf? (even if this results in 4g final product) Logically this does not make sense.

Keep in mind that caapi alkaloid concentrations are relatively low. I’m not sure of leaf concentration, but vine ranges from close to zero up to 3% or so. “Average” caapi vine probably has somewhere between 0.5% and 2% alkaloids by weight. So 10X would have between 5% and 20% alkaloids.

 

[redeyes drag on]

thanks tony and gibran I guess before I didn't realize I was pulling other thinks besides alks from the plant matter which was causing the dramatic weight increase I think I may try another method. Is IPA easy to get, where would I go? I have access to Everclear for ethanol if what would work better or just as well. Could I still heat this on the stove to speed the process?

 

[smokerx]

yeah smokerx, this is what makes the most sense to me. but in regards to salvia do you think this is really true? for example if some 10x salvia contains x amount of mg of salvatorin A per gram would some 50x salvia contain 5 times as much of the active component? From what I've experienced the labeling system for salvia is all based off a different reference point and 50x from one source could be substantially less than even 40x from another source.

This is why you have to make salvia enhanced leafs your self. It only takes few minutes to extract salvinorin A from plant using freezing cold acetone. This way you know how much plant have you used and therefore you will know exactly how strong your enhanced leafs are.

I would not trust anybody selling it on the internet. You own experience only proves this.

 

[tony]

thanks tony and gibran I guess before I didn't realize I was pulling other thinks besides alks from the plant matter which was causing the dramatic weight increase I think I may try another method. Is IPA easy to get, where would I go? I have access to Everclear for ethanol if what would work better or just as well. Could I still heat this on the stove to speed the process?

IPA is easy to get, just google it. As far as I know everclear works well for it. I tried recently to get a hold of some everclear and found out, much to my surprise, that it is actually a drink... lol. I don't think it is even legal to sell in my country :lol:

 

[redeyes drag on]

IPA is easy to get, just google it. As far as I know everclear works well for it. I tried recently to get a hold of some everclear and found out, much to my surprise, that it is actually a drink... lol. I don't think it is even legal to sell in my country :lol:

Oh good. Haha Everclear is available in the liquor store here so I'll just use that :d
Thanks guys, very helpful.