Is all lsd different or is it the dosing?

[polytrip]

polytrip, I don't understand. You are saying that providers info aren't precise ? That's sound very "Ohhh Honey" to moi.

Well, i'm not saying that their info isn't right. If they synthesize LSD and the result is a product that contains 45% LSD, 45% lysergic acid and 10%of other chemicals needed to produce LSD, and it is hard to separate the actual product from the impurities, i can see why it would be difficult for them to be able to specify exactly how much LSD there is in the endproduct, and that they would just call their entire endproduct including the impurities LSD.

On average you can say that there is a consistancy in how many micrograms blotters are said to contain. If blotters are said to contain 200 micrograms, there is a good chance that they will indeed be twice as strong as a blotter that's said to contain 100 mic's.

It is because of the consistency of the 'word on the street' that i speculate that in most cases, synthesizing LSD will leave you with an endproduct that's about 50% pure.

In many places in the world it is possible to have your blotters tested by some firm that does chemical analysis, without having the police paying you a visit.

In a sense farmaceutical companies often do the same thing. They will say on the package that a pill contains X milligrams of product P while it's actually P-fumarate/P-bromide/P-sulfite/P-etc.

 

[Ginkgo]

polytrip, I don't understand. You are saying that providers info aren't precise ? That's sound very "Ohhh Honey" to moi.

Well, i'm not saying that their info isn't right. If they synthesize LSD and the result is a product that contains 45% LSD, 45% lysergic acid and 10%of other chemicals needed to produce LSD, and it is hard to separate the actual product from the impurities, i can see why it would be difficult for them to be able to specify exactly how much LSD there is in the endproduct, and that they would just call their entire endproduct including the impurities LSD.

This is a well-known fact. Brown crystals are known to contain very much impurities, and these produce more mind-fuck and less visuals. White crystals is a whole other story, they tend to be more or less pure LSD. Of course it's still some impurities, sometimes more than others, but it's a whole other deal than with brown crystals. Pure LSD isn't brown.

 

[endlessness]

Personally I think most if not all of the differences are related to set/setting/expectations, and dosage. I was today in a lab that analyzes different substances for harm reduction and there was never any LSD sample with significant amount of active impurities, it was always lsd, in different quantities (or the few exceptions of blotters that were DOx, but overal majority were LSD.. This in europe, no idea if USA there are more RC sold as LSD)

We need more analysis coupled with blind tests, I've had enough of "acid Y or X causes dark trips/back aches" speculation

 

[entheogenadvocate]

I can definitely say I don't have the experience or training in science/chemistry that many other nexians do. However, I have experimented with LSD extensively. There have been times where I have had LSD from four or five different sources at the same time, and I would learn what each batch was better at inducing (introspective thought, visuals, sound distortion, happy-go-lucky, etc.).

From MY perspective, each batch seemed to have different attributes. However, I am open to the fact that each batch could have contained different dosages in each drop/paper. I am a huge believe in the power of set and setting, but there was one summer where I really had nothing to worry about, disc golfed and smoked herb pretty much every day, and ate LSD frequently in relatively the same headspace, and would STILL notice the difference between them.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised to know all LSD is the same.... BUT IT SURE SEEMS DIFFERENT TO ME!

 

[polytrip]

Personally I think most if not all of the differences are related to set/setting/expectations, and dosage. I was today in a lab that analyzes different substances for harm reduction and there was never any LSD sample with significant amount of active impurities, it was always lsd, in different quantities (or the few exceptions of blotters that were DOx, but overal majority were LSD.. This in europe, no idea if USA there are more RC sold as LSD)

We need more analysis coupled with blind tests, I've had enough of "acid Y or X causes dark trips/back aches" speculation

The word 'active'.

Maybe some impurities that are believed to be not active, are active anyway. It's very unlikely that there where no impurities found, because LSD degrades quickly, so every batch of LSD is by definition becoming less and less pure from the moment it was made.

I think that lysergic acid in quantity's that would not produce noticeable effects on it's own, would definately affect the LSD experience. Look at the effects of a tiny bit of tropane's on psychedelic's.

From experience i know that a slight bit of vaso or broncholidation or constriction can have a huge impact on trip-quality.

You could test this for yourself by taking a substance that would have a slight vasolidating or broncholidating effect, but no other noticeable effects, like low quantity's of caffeine, theobromine or gingko and you'll see that you will have a better quality experience. Being in a pleasantly warm environment has the same effect.

I've noticed that eating fresh fruit or drinking fresh juice, will immediately enhance visuals dramatically. Especially colours become warmer and brighter.
To me this suggests that if braincells are being even slightly depleted from what they need (oxygen and sugar) you'll have less colourfull and less energetically flowing visuals and other effects.

Lysergic acid is a very powerfull vasoconstrictor that will produce these effects in very tiny amounts that some would call 'amounts not active'.

 

[endlessness]

You could test this for yourself by taking a substance that would have a slight vasolidating or broncholidating effect, but no other noticeable effects, like low quantity's of caffeine, theobromine or gingko and you'll see that you will have a better quality experience. Being in a pleasantly warm environment has the same effect.

I've noticed that eating fresh fruit or drinking fresh juice, will immediately enhance visuals dramatically. Especially colours become warmer and brighter.
To me this suggests that if braincells are being even slightly depleted from what they need (oxygen and sugar) you'll have less colourfull and less energetically flowing visuals and other effects.

Lysergic acid is a very powerfull vasoconstrictor that will produce these effects in very tiny amounts that some would call 'amounts not active'.

Making this test would tell us nothing about what I question unless we do a blind (or double blind) placebo test.

There is pharmacological evidence that CBD affects THC effects even though supposedly CBD by itself doesnt really have effects, but doses of it are large and it is a known antagonist at cannabinoidreceptors.

But there is no evidence AFAIK that any common precursors/byproducts affects lsd pharmacology, specially at such minute doses and causing so drastic differences.

I think people way too fast jump into conclusions that the difference in effects is in the substance and not in their expectations (FV's "THH", anyone?). While it was neither yet absolutely disproven about LSD being effected by other common impurities in microgram doses, I would rather wait to have at least some indication instead of talking about it as a sure thing (and using analogy of tropane isnt valid because tropanes ARE active, and in quite small doses. Not the same as about inactive substances in microgram doses.)

 

[polytrip]

Yes, you´re right. It´s not scientific facts at all. But i believe many of us have experienced difference in quality. This could all be set and setting related ofcourse.

But in my experience there realy where blotters that where excellent and blotters that where somewhat less excellent. Some blotters realy gave warm colourfull visuals all the time where others gave visuals that where just fainter.

I realy believe there is a difference in quality.

But on the other hand it´s true that set and setting is important.
Ololiqui can give you a great experience that is extremely close to LSD one time, and the same seeds can do almost nothing another time.

 

[Shaolin]

Pure LSD isn't brown.

But "pure" DMT is ?

Can you provide some analysis of the brown vs. white crystals ?

polytrip: If I'm getting this correctly you are saying something along the following. Correct me, if not.

Our hypothetical chemist named Jesse Jerome cranks up some acid. He does not re-x and is therefore left with a bunch of crystals that contain 50% of LSD and 50% of other substances (reagent leftovers, reaction by products etc). He then dissolves 10g of this mixture in an x amount of alcohol (chemistry definition). Since he thinks he has 10g of LSD his estimation of LSD dosages are therefore flawed by at least 50%.

All the numbers are hypothetical.

I would argue though, that you are underestimating the "average purity" of the LSD. The process requires some touchy chemicals and lab skills so I presume that a person capable of synthesizing LSD, wouldn't skip re-x.

As for your fruit experiment, I'm not really raving on it. Placebo ? If not, just eating pure sugar should do the trick.

As for degradation, we wound need numbers to speculate moar.
I'm with end here. Old hippies talk a lot

 

[polytrip]

Pure LSD isn't brown.

But "pure" DMT is ?

Can you provide some analysis of the brown vs. white crystals ?

polytrip: If I'm getting this correctly you are saying something along the following. Correct me, if not.

Our hypothetical chemist named Jesse Jerome cranks up some acid. He does not re-x and is therefore left with a bunch of crystals that contain 50% of LSD and 50% of other substances (reagent leftovers, reaction by products etc). He then dissolves 10g of this mixture in an x amount of alcohol (chemistry definition). Since he thinks he has 10g of LSD his estimation of LSD dosages are therefore flawed by at least 50%.

That is what i suspect.

If this is the way LSD chemists generally have come to sell their product, just like say volkswagen etc, claim a car uses x lites of gasoline per kilometer, then our smart chemist doesn't need to re-X and come with more accurate figures.

 

[PsilocybeChild]

As for your fruit experiment, I'm not really raving on it. Placebo ? If not, just eating pure sugar should do the trick.

Happens to me also.

 

[justine]

Pure LSD isn't brown.

But "pure" DMT is ?

Can you provide some analysis of the brown vs. white crystals ?

polytrip: If I'm getting this correctly you are saying something along the following. Correct me, if not.

Our hypothetical chemist named Jesse Jerome cranks up some acid. He does not re-x and is therefore left with a bunch of crystals that contain 50% of LSD and 50% of other substances (reagent leftovers, reaction by products etc). He then dissolves 10g of this mixture in an x amount of alcohol (chemistry definition). Since he thinks he has 10g of LSD his estimation of LSD dosages are therefore flawed by at least 50%.

That is what i suspect.

If this is the way LSD chemists generally have come to sell their product, just like say volkswagen etc, claim a car uses x lites of gasoline per kilometer, then our smart chemist doesn't need to re-X and come with more accurate figures.

Actually, since ergotamine tartarate is so hard to come by I suspect most LSD chemists would convert any iso-LSD to LSD and get a relatively pure product (after all using a chromatography column
is quite easy compared to the synthesis stage), degradation most likely occurs later on due to less than optimal storage conditions.

 

[SHroomtroll]

So i was at a forest party this weekend and consumed 5½ hits of cid, 4being from the same batch as i mentioned.

Turns out i really underestimated set and setting, cause this time i had no hard mindfuck at all, even when smoking huge hits of changa on my peak...

The whole saturday was just pure bliss and sitting in a forest while hitting my glass pipe and listening to awesome music was just too intense to describe.


Anyway lsd is just a very weird substance that can make a huge difference in effects from the slightest variation in mood or setting.

 

[GratefulDad]

The difference in purity of LSD can definitely alter the effects of the LSD. Much of the feelings will be the same in the dirtier stuff, however the intensity in the more pure can also play a big factor. Some negative effects can come from impurities. In the various grades/colors of crystal, there is often a side effect or side effets that are noticeable.

With very white fluffy or needle-like (needlepoint) white crystals, there is often no negative effects, and the intensity is increased, while the overall effects can often seem a bit smoother to handle. Most of the dirtier stuff carries some sort of body load, and this can definitely effect someone's mental state in such a sensitive state.

Go ahead and test for yourself, if you have access. Try some amber, or lavender, then try some silver or eggshell, then try some white fluff or needlepoint. You may be able to get to the place you want with all of them, but the lower grades will take more, and you will definitely have more side effects. Many less experienced people do prefer the dirtier stuff, because they often feel more intense sensations, rather than a crisper mental experience that many of the more experienced people are looking for. Not to mention, that the lower grades are often cheaper, and easier to acquire.

 

[SHroomtroll]

I doubt i will ever get ahold of lsd in crystal form. I´m not even sure there is anyone in my country who has it.

Blotters or icy drops is what i´m used to around here...

 

[benzyme]

All speculation, but interesting. As someone said before, until prohibition ends and we can get good testing on the various batches/producers, there's no way to tell. I once had a conversation with an old-school LSD distributor (who told me after doing time in 26 different prisons that he's no longer affiliated with the distribution circles) who stated that the various types of crystal determine the quality of the experience. Chinacat72 on the Shroomery also talked about this. There's so-called "fluff", containing a very high-percentage LSD, which dissolves in distilled water. The lower grade purities - amber, lavender, silver, down to so-called "tornado juice" - require alcohol for full dissolution. Apparently "fluff" is much more mental - it doesn't "spin" you or have the physical, mushroom-like effects of the lower grades of crystal. He also stated that the crystals could be manually separated using a microscope - the clearer specks of crystal could be separated for a purer lay, while the colored ones would probably be used for distribution. That type of separation is a low-tech one that a good chemist such as Nick Sand wouldn't use. Another thing he mentioned was that folks on the East Coast actually wanted the less pure crystal; the "fluff" simply doesn't spin you or cause the physical "trip". Left coasters, on the other hand, preferred the crystal-clear "fluff". Personally I've definitely noticed a lot of the acid going around has this 'darker' feel to it (I often wonder if government agents are still involved in its distribution), along with a metallic taste, and definite edgy effects, which makes since given the vasoconstrictive properties of the lysergamides. On a couple of occasions I've had the well made acid and on these occasions I felt the electric effects immediately from having it in my hand - similar to the "contact buzz" phenomenon. Anyways I have no real information to offer, just anecdotes.

Lies.