Is "Arm & Hammer Washing Soda" OK to use for sodium carbonate?

[lorentz5]

SWIM stumbled across this product in his basement. It's about a year old, and the MSDS says:

Ingredients from MSDS/Label
Chemical/Percent
Sodium carbonate/~ 85
Water/~15

SWIM wants to know if this is fine to use for freebasing. He plans to add 1g of his dmt-fumerate to 2g of the Arm & Hammer Washing Soda and 2 or so ml of water, stirring, ...

 

[soulfood]

You'll have to cook it for an hour or 2 first to get rid of the water content.

 

[psychosisdoses]

^ yup,thats fine to use

 

[lorentz5]

You'll have to cook it for an hour or 2 first to get rid of the water content.

Why would SWIM want to get rid of the water content if SWIM's adding it to water anyway?

 

[soulfood]

No idea

I've just never had it put to me that sodium carbonate contained up to 15% water. To be honest I don't know better one way or the other.

 

[amor_fati]

No need to cook out water content, and that's exactly what SWIM uses.

 

[69ron]

Is it technical grade?

 

[amor_fati]

Is it technical grade?

It's arm and hammer washing soda.

 

[Crisp]

NO, it is NOT OK. It contains perfumes and other things apparently, at least the brand my friend checked.

 

[amor_fati]

Checked how? MSDS doesn't mention anything, and the box says "100% fragrance-free and phosphate-free." Apparently, the company prides itself on offering pure products.

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=3005022

SWIM's getting a little weary of all these claims of impurities in products with very little info to back it up.

 

[69ron]

Is it technical grade?

It's arm and hammer washing soda.

Yes I know but they don't say its food safe on the box do they?

 

[Crisp]

Well, my friend called the company and that's what they said. I suggest that you do the same.

 

[69ron]

Well, my friend called the company and that's what they said. I suggest that you do the same.

??? Said what ???

 

[amor_fati]

Is it technical grade?

It's arm and hammer washing soda.

Yes I know but they don't say its food safe on the box do they?

I just meant that it's a grocery store item, so it's probably not technical grade (SWIM can't say he's ever known grocery stores to carry technical grad reagents). They wouldn't bother certifying a conventionally non-food or non-kitchen item as food-safe, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not. SWIM wouldn't worry about it, especially since he only uses it to convert for vaporizing, but even if he were to orally ingest the freebase converted with this, he still wouldn't worry; however, if it's considered as problematic, simply convert some food-grade baking soda to sodium carbonate.

 

[amor_fati]

NO, it is NOT OK. It contains perfumes and other things apparently, at least the brand my friend checked.

What brand? There's only one brand under discussion here.

Well, my friend called the company and that's what they said. I suggest that you do the same.

??? Said what ???

Am I to understand SWIY called Arm and Hammer, and they said that there were perfumes in this product, contrary to what's stated on the box?

 

[Crisp]

>>Am I to understand SWIY called Arm and Hammer, and they said that there were perfumes in this product, contrary to what's stated on the box?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The brand was Arm and Hammer Washing Soda, and it didn't state other ingredients on the box. However, they produce different 'types' of this same product depending on Country, I believe. The others may be pure (find out), but this one wasn't.

 

[lorentz5]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The brand was Arm and Hammer Washing Soda, and it didn't state other ingredients on the box. However, they produce different 'types' of this same product depending on Country, I believe. The others may be pure (find out), but this one wasn't.

SWIM hasn't found a single official source that confirms the presence of anything but sodium carbonate and water in this product. On SWIM's box it says it's fragrance free, and so does the website. From his search on the internet, he hasn't found a single box which looked different from his. SWIM'll just call the office tomorrow and ask directly about fragrances and then he'll know for sure.

 

[Crisp]

Some boxes don't say fragrance free, some boxes DO look slightly different than others, and some boxes DO contain other crap without stating it on the box. To anyone reading this who is unsure, just call the company.

 

[69ron]

Yes I know but they don't say its food safe on the box do they?

I just meant that it's a grocery store item, so it's probably not technical grade (SWIM can't say he's ever known grocery stores to carry technical grad reagents). They wouldn't bother certifying a conventionally non-food or non-kitchen item as food-safe, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not. SWIM wouldn't worry about it, especially since he only uses it to convert for vaporizing, but even if he were to orally ingest the freebase converted with this, he still wouldn't worry; however, if it's considered as problematic, simply convert some food-grade baking soda to sodium carbonate.

The price is very good. If it was food grade and stated so on the box that would be fantastic. But I don’t think it is, otherwise they would probably say so because there are several recipes that call for sodium carbonate specifically. I have the feeling their washing soda is leftover sub par sodium bicarbonate that they converted to sodium carbonate. For example, sodium bicarbonate boxes that broke and spilled on the floor, or got contaminated in some other way. Such a product can’t be sold as food grade baking soda so they heat it and sell it as washing soda.

 

[amor_fati]

I have the feeling their washing soda is leftover sub par sodium bicarbonate that they converted to sodium carbonate. For example, sodium bicarbonate boxes that broke and spilled on the floor, or got contaminated in some other way. Such a product can’t be sold as food grade baking soda so they heat it and sell it as washing soda.

This may be a little far-fetched. More likely they produce baking soda from sodium carbonate, and the extra process along with market demand would account for the price difference.

NaHCO3 is mainly prepared by the Solvay process, which is the reaction of calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, ammonia, and carbon dioxide in water. It is produced on the scale of about 100,000 ton/year (as of 2001).[2]

NaHCO3 may be obtained by the reaction of carbon dioxide with an aqueous solution of sodium hydroxide. The initial reaction produces sodium carbonate:

CO2 + 2 NaOH → Na2CO3 + H2O

Further addition of carbon dioxide produces sodium bicarbonate, which at sufficiently high concentration will precipitate out of solution:

Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O → 2 NaHCO3

Commercial quantities of baking soda are also produced by a similar method: soda ash, mined in the form of the ore trona, is dissolved in water and treated with carbon dioxide. Sodium bicarbonate precipitates as a solid from this method:

Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O → 2 NaHCO3