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Is DMT sacred and or spiritual in nature?
- Thread starter AlbertKLloyd
- Start date
I voted no.
Of all my experiences (2.5 years of use) I have only had 1 that I would describe as spiritual. It was my first session and I was bathed in what I can only describe as a divine love, I have a trip report about it on here if needed.
With all the talk of the DMT religion and atypical experiences I have been thinking about my journeys and I think I have different or differently interpreted experiences to a lot I read. I have never seen machine elves, rarely get fractals or geometries, rarely enter domes, only once felt cosmic love ect.
What I do get is epic fantasy adventures and this is the most frequent styles of experience. Dragons, castles, giant tree people, big banging, alien biomech planets, spaceships, entities, fun fairs etc.
Due to my experiences or interpretations of them I don't put DMT down as spiritual but I don't rule out that it can be, or is every time, for other people.
If I had to say "what DMT is" then I would say that existence is pure awareness manifest into self experiencing hot spots of consciousness, when DMT is ingested it scrambles the awareness and allows it to temporarily manifest as something else within the consciousness hot spot that is the person taking on board the magic.
Either that or its just a drug that works so exceptionally well that it completely convinces people that what they experience is real or that there is more to it than just a drug.
I think DMT is everything and nothing and has changed everything but everything has stayed the same. I think that if DMT itself was inherently spiritual then it would regularly induce spiritual experiences in everyone and I can say that it doesn't for me. This leads me to think that if you search for something for long enough then you will find it.
The drug I have always wanted didn't exist, my mushroom and LSD experiences were brilliant but they never did for me what was advertised, my desire was crazy epic psychedelic adventures and when I found DMT this desire was met, and then some8) , it is this that makes me think that you get what you seek.
Hope that's of interest Albert.
Of all my experiences (2.5 years of use) I have only had 1 that I would describe as spiritual. It was my first session and I was bathed in what I can only describe as a divine love, I have a trip report about it on here if needed.
With all the talk of the DMT religion and atypical experiences I have been thinking about my journeys and I think I have different or differently interpreted experiences to a lot I read. I have never seen machine elves, rarely get fractals or geometries, rarely enter domes, only once felt cosmic love ect.
What I do get is epic fantasy adventures and this is the most frequent styles of experience. Dragons, castles, giant tree people, big banging, alien biomech planets, spaceships, entities, fun fairs etc.
Due to my experiences or interpretations of them I don't put DMT down as spiritual but I don't rule out that it can be, or is every time, for other people.
If I had to say "what DMT is" then I would say that existence is pure awareness manifest into self experiencing hot spots of consciousness, when DMT is ingested it scrambles the awareness and allows it to temporarily manifest as something else within the consciousness hot spot that is the person taking on board the magic.
Either that or its just a drug that works so exceptionally well that it completely convinces people that what they experience is real or that there is more to it than just a drug.
I think DMT is everything and nothing and has changed everything but everything has stayed the same. I think that if DMT itself was inherently spiritual then it would regularly induce spiritual experiences in everyone and I can say that it doesn't for me. This leads me to think that if you search for something for long enough then you will find it.
The drug I have always wanted didn't exist, my mushroom and LSD experiences were brilliant but they never did for me what was advertised, my desire was crazy epic psychedelic adventures and when I found DMT this desire was met, and then some8) , it is this that makes me think that you get what you seek.
Hope that's of interest Albert.
The Unknowing
Life is a dream, the heart a compass
I'd say yes because it transcends anything I could relate to physicality. It feels GODLIKE.
I guess its all a matter of perspective.
I guess its all a matter of perspective.
Do we include ayahuasca in the question?
I`d imagine answers might be different...
I`d also like to know how do you define `spiritual` or `sacred` ?
I can say that DMT has definitely went beyond the realm of the `mundane`, but whether that means it is sacred or spiritual, I`m not sure how to answer. At least it`s not the stereotypical spiritual images I see, it can get quite abstract and mind-confounding, some images appear random and nonsensical, while others deeply meaningful... There is often what seems to be a sense of humor too (and a `circus/jester` feeling at times too which was mentioned by people I know who smoked dmt before ever reading a trip report or hearing about this aspect).
I did encounter many beings, some seem interested in me or relate somehow, others seem far removed from human issues. Not sure if I`d define any of them as `machine elves` but I guess I can see where mckenna was coming from. Most, if not all of the times, I have felt a sense of intelligence that was undeniable. It seemed very distanced from my own intelligence, subjectively it felt like there was no way it was me creating that somehow. But I make no certain affirmations regarding the source and nature of these experiences, it would all just be speculation. I guess there might be a mix of different elements in there, maybe it`s not a simple answer (for example "its just brain chemistry" or "it's the real experience of another dimension" ). One way or another, it can be life changing and it's not something to be used light-heartedly.
Personally with vaporized DMT I haven`t had very personal lessons or direct inteligible messages or anything of the sort that typical spirituality might have. Usually I come back from vaporized DMT experience with a "WOWOMGWTF" feeling, like the confusion that a 2D being would have when his dimensions were intersected by 3D (or 10D) objects. This could potentially serve as some kind of shock spiritual therapy in the sense that the contrast between consensus reality and that experience is so great that can help you becoming more aware of daily reality, present in the moment without being too identified with small dramas. At times it may also feel like having been `touched by divinity`, coming back crying and laughing at the same time, thankful for being alive. But I think after honeymoon period has passed, it is better to use it less and less often, otherwise you get diminishing returns.
I can also say that from my own experience, ayahuasca has served as a better tool for my self improvement and existencial questioning than any other tool including vaporized dmt, so I guess I would consider it more 'spiritual'. Some of these `spiritual` experiences happened even when I didn`t use it for those purposes, so I think it`s not only in how you use it or your intentions IMO, it seems like it has an `agenda` of its own.
I`d imagine answers might be different...
I`d also like to know how do you define `spiritual` or `sacred` ?
I can say that DMT has definitely went beyond the realm of the `mundane`, but whether that means it is sacred or spiritual, I`m not sure how to answer. At least it`s not the stereotypical spiritual images I see, it can get quite abstract and mind-confounding, some images appear random and nonsensical, while others deeply meaningful... There is often what seems to be a sense of humor too (and a `circus/jester` feeling at times too which was mentioned by people I know who smoked dmt before ever reading a trip report or hearing about this aspect).
I did encounter many beings, some seem interested in me or relate somehow, others seem far removed from human issues. Not sure if I`d define any of them as `machine elves` but I guess I can see where mckenna was coming from. Most, if not all of the times, I have felt a sense of intelligence that was undeniable. It seemed very distanced from my own intelligence, subjectively it felt like there was no way it was me creating that somehow. But I make no certain affirmations regarding the source and nature of these experiences, it would all just be speculation. I guess there might be a mix of different elements in there, maybe it`s not a simple answer (for example "its just brain chemistry" or "it's the real experience of another dimension" ). One way or another, it can be life changing and it's not something to be used light-heartedly.
Personally with vaporized DMT I haven`t had very personal lessons or direct inteligible messages or anything of the sort that typical spirituality might have. Usually I come back from vaporized DMT experience with a "WOWOMGWTF" feeling, like the confusion that a 2D being would have when his dimensions were intersected by 3D (or 10D) objects. This could potentially serve as some kind of shock spiritual therapy in the sense that the contrast between consensus reality and that experience is so great that can help you becoming more aware of daily reality, present in the moment without being too identified with small dramas. At times it may also feel like having been `touched by divinity`, coming back crying and laughing at the same time, thankful for being alive. But I think after honeymoon period has passed, it is better to use it less and less often, otherwise you get diminishing returns.
I can also say that from my own experience, ayahuasca has served as a better tool for my self improvement and existencial questioning than any other tool including vaporized dmt, so I guess I would consider it more 'spiritual'. Some of these `spiritual` experiences happened even when I didn`t use it for those purposes, so I think it`s not only in how you use it or your intentions IMO, it seems like it has an `agenda` of its own.
Non Dua Natura
Namo Amitaba Buddha
I voted "Only if you intend..." but I should add that, although this is the closest option to my current view of DMT, there are many, many subtleties and variations in the individual experience, before, during and after, that this option does not account for.
I would suggest that, rather than only being spiritual or sacred by intent, ones intent, dependent on strength of focus and concentrative force, increases the probability of having a spiritual or sacred experience. I don't accept that DMT is inherently spiritual or sacred, but suspect that it can provide a route of entry into states of consciousness variously described as such with more ease than many psychedelics.
I would suggest that, rather than only being spiritual or sacred by intent, ones intent, dependent on strength of focus and concentrative force, increases the probability of having a spiritual or sacred experience. I don't accept that DMT is inherently spiritual or sacred, but suspect that it can provide a route of entry into states of consciousness variously described as such with more ease than many psychedelics.
other, please elaborate:
A chemical key that allows one to enter a dimension shared by all entities that possess dmt as part of their consciousness physically/energetically or otherwise including but not limited to plant consciousness, animal consciousness, entities on other planets, other earths/parallel worlds and other dimensions--other dimensions does indeed include hell, heaven, elf-land, toon-town and all sorts of gods, demi-gods, deamons ect.
Or not.
The terms spiritual and sacred have little meaning for me--they are not words that I use. Being one of Gaias neurotransmitters, (and also considering the primacy of consciousness) dmt can put one in contact with the gods of this earth. As a mode of travel....one can surf the internet and encounter all sorts of religious websites--that does not make the internet inherently "sacred" nor "spiritual"!
A chemical key that allows one to enter a dimension shared by all entities that possess dmt as part of their consciousness physically/energetically or otherwise including but not limited to plant consciousness, animal consciousness, entities on other planets, other earths/parallel worlds and other dimensions--other dimensions does indeed include hell, heaven, elf-land, toon-town and all sorts of gods, demi-gods, deamons ect.
Or not.
The terms spiritual and sacred have little meaning for me--they are not words that I use. Being one of Gaias neurotransmitters, (and also considering the primacy of consciousness) dmt can put one in contact with the gods of this earth. As a mode of travel....one can surf the internet and encounter all sorts of religious websites--that does not make the internet inherently "sacred" nor "spiritual"!
Maybe, I'm not sure - never tried it
This is why I'm also unsure.
If you mean spiritual or sacred in terms of god/s and the supernatural, then no
If you mean spiritual in terms of ones own consciousness, then yes (though I can't talk from personal experience)
endlessness said:
This is why I'm also unsure.
If you mean spiritual or sacred in terms of god/s and the supernatural, then no
If you mean spiritual in terms of ones own consciousness, then yes (though I can't talk from personal experience)
it has to do with plugging me into the entire gaian system, that is more like a song than a computerized matrix. I chose "other" because notions of spiritual or sacred are usually so watered/dumbed down and feel too plastic and pretentious. The whole Gaian system is sacred, if you see into it that way. The tryptamines are like tuning forks, and seem to serve multiple purposes from IAA storage to neurotransmitters.
I voted only if you intend it to be or use it that way.
I don't believe the molecule to be spiritual in itself. The spirituality is something we attribute to it. I have seen a lot of people who have used entheogens and didn't interpret it as spiritual.
I don't think it matters that much, it's what you do with the experience that counts.
I don't believe the molecule to be spiritual in itself. The spirituality is something we attribute to it. I have seen a lot of people who have used entheogens and didn't interpret it as spiritual.
I don't think it matters that much, it's what you do with the experience that counts.
Are electromagnetic waves "physical or material " ? Id suppose so
If the 'spiritual' world was an undiscovered frequency, or maybe be related those coiled up dimensions predicted by superstring theory, and maybe (or not) accessed by DMT and other substances, would it not be `physical` ?
I think everything is probably going according to a universal pattern, including our inner selves, and that`s spiritual to me, even though it doesn`t have to be related to 'ectoplasmic freefloating ghosts' that defy rules of physics or other things that might be typically associated with spirits.
If the 'spiritual' world was an undiscovered frequency, or maybe be related those coiled up dimensions predicted by superstring theory, and maybe (or not) accessed by DMT and other substances, would it not be `physical` ?
I think everything is probably going according to a universal pattern, including our inner selves, and that`s spiritual to me, even though it doesn`t have to be related to 'ectoplasmic freefloating ghosts' that defy rules of physics or other things that might be typically associated with spirits.
yes electromagnetic waves are physical.
This definition of spiritual is rather standard.
I like to employ standard common definitions for words and chose to not redefine them for my own purpose, as that would destroy my ability to convey in a precise manner.
Maybe "soul" is some undiscovered thing, who knows?
If so that is kind of unrelated to the topic.
This definition of spiritual is rather standard.
I like to employ standard common definitions for words and chose to not redefine them for my own purpose, as that would destroy my ability to convey in a precise manner.
Maybe "soul" is some undiscovered thing, who knows?
If so that is kind of unrelated to the topic.
with nearly 30K registered users I will not consider the poll meaningful unless we have at least a few hundred respond to it.
Though only under 600 active users actually posting, so you`d be very lucky if this post got to 100 votes
As for the definition, I do think it`s important to consider the possibility that what people usually consider `spirit world/soul/hyperspace` might at least partly be some natural undiscovered part of `physics`, hence it would somewhat contradict the very definition of spirit, while still being the exact same phenomenon...
As for the definition, I do think it`s important to consider the possibility that what people usually consider `spirit world/soul/hyperspace` might at least partly be some natural undiscovered part of `physics`, hence it would somewhat contradict the very definition of spirit, while still being the exact same phenomenon...
I agree about that possibility, but how would that change the responses people give here in regards to the poll?
Good question.
I`ve always felt that psychedelics help us `triangulate` reality, so that we see things from a bit different perspective and therefore have a bit more complete view of existance, just like how you need two eyes to see well in 3D and have a good notion of depth (and yet both eyes can still be deceived by optical illusions and mistaken interpretations but probably better two than one
)
The thing is that I then come to the thought that everything helps us 'triangulate' reality, every different experience is like a mirror that helps us see different blind spots... But there is something peculiar about psychedelics that, at least for me, seems to specially facilitate experiences of increased awareness about patterns.. And this can be related to seeing my own inner patern (which I could call 'soul/spirit' ) as well as the pattern that connects everything (dare I say, `god`, or a small glimpse of it?), and how to get in tune with this pattern instead of unharmoniously going against it. Doesn`t mean that all experiences will be like that, but tendency for me is that psychedelics go into this direction. So in that way I could answer that psychedelics can be spiritual, or at least I`d be more inclined to answer that as opposed to if we use the traditional definition of spiritual which requires a phenomenon that goes against natural laws.
I`ve always felt that psychedelics help us `triangulate` reality, so that we see things from a bit different perspective and therefore have a bit more complete view of existance, just like how you need two eyes to see well in 3D and have a good notion of depth (and yet both eyes can still be deceived by optical illusions and mistaken interpretations but probably better two than one
)The thing is that I then come to the thought that everything helps us 'triangulate' reality, every different experience is like a mirror that helps us see different blind spots... But there is something peculiar about psychedelics that, at least for me, seems to specially facilitate experiences of increased awareness about patterns.. And this can be related to seeing my own inner patern (which I could call 'soul/spirit' ) as well as the pattern that connects everything (dare I say, `god`, or a small glimpse of it?), and how to get in tune with this pattern instead of unharmoniously going against it. Doesn`t mean that all experiences will be like that, but tendency for me is that psychedelics go into this direction. So in that way I could answer that psychedelics can be spiritual, or at least I`d be more inclined to answer that as opposed to if we use the traditional definition of spiritual which requires a phenomenon that goes against natural laws.
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