Is it this manageable for you all?

[moyshekapoyre]

Hey folks, just wondering if I'm weird or just not doing it right, because my experience is that with aya or pharma, the only way I really get to OEVs and eventually blast off is to lie down and kind of meditate into it. Like if I decide to go to work, I can do that, and I won't be hallucinating, though I will be feeling good, plus a bit of a body load. Is this a specific feature of DMT, that you have to be ready for it?

I've also never been able to get much effect from smoking/vaping DMT, for some reason.

 

[Global]

If you don't get much from smoking/vaping then it's either that your DMT itself isn't that good, or more likely that your vaping technique is poor. Can you describe at all the steps you go through when vaping spice?

Also in terms of the pharma, it's kinda hard to say what's going wrong without knowing the dose and the way you administer the MAOIs and DMT. Can you embellish at all your process?

 

[soulfood]

Some people need quite a lot to launch. A friend of mine smoked 60mg and just felt "relaxed". Obviously he vaping technique wasn't perfect but with that amount loaded he should have at least got mild CEV.

Your pharma experience sounds to me like a low dose session so maybe you need a higher dose or different technique/pre-dietry preparations etc.

 

[amor_fati]

From SWIM's experience, it's invariably a matter of technique for both smoking and pharma. SWIM's gone so far as to fill a chamber himself and give the vapor to someone who's had trouble smoking, and after they know what to shoot for, they're a bit more conscious of their technique. But yeah, hard to say in this case with so little info.

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Yeah, I don't know. I've done pharma about 8 times and I've had hyperspace events (one with universe, see everything in universe all at once) at least 3 times, maybe 4. Of course I don't always do high doses. I enjoy low doses. But what I'm saying is that with a high dose, I don't blast off unless I really want to. I am still quite functional if I want to be. Is that odd?

 

[moyshekapoyre]

As for the vaping thing... yeah I have the GVG and I have successfully vaped marijuana. Haven't tried salvia vaped in it. But anyway, I had pretty pure white crystals and I just shoved like 500mg or so in the GVG with a mesh bed of some tarragon or something. I lit it up and took like 5 huge hits. Never got much effect, maybe just a little or placebo. I obviously will never be able to do this until I find a friend in real life who can show me. But that's ok. Pharma's cool for now.

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Also a FOAF did aya with me and her friend, and neither of them got anything, tho it was magical for me. 50g of mimosa for each of us. I think they redosed even. NOTHING for them for hours of meditating in my room. Then they went home. Once she was home (in a better, more relaxing setting I think), she started getting morphing paintings and cool stuff like that (OEVs), but I think it was too late for her to blast off. So I feel like setting matters more for aya/pharma than it does for other drugs. You have to be reaaaally relaxing and meditating into it. It's not hard but you need the right setting. I think.

 

[gibran2]

As for the vaping thing... yeah I have the GVG and I have successfully vaped marijuana. Haven't tried salvia vaped in it. But anyway, I had pretty pure white crystals and I just shoved like 500mg or so in the GVG with a mesh bed of some tarragon or something. I lit it up and took like 5 huge hits. Never got much effect, maybe just a little or placebo. I obviously will never be able to do this until I find a friend in real life who can show me. But that's ok. Pharma's cool for now.

Putting that much DMT into a GVG (even with a leaf bed) will almost certainly result in most of the DMT running right down the stem. Also, attempting to vaporize 500mg “or so” of DMT is incredibly irresponsible.

Also a FOAF did aya with me and her friend, and neither of them got anything, tho it was magical for me. 50g of mimosa for each of us. I think they redosed even. NOTHING for them for hours of meditating in my room. Then they went home. Once she was home (in a better, more relaxing setting I think), she started getting morphing paintings and cool stuff like that (OEVs), but I think it was too late for her to blast off. So I feel like setting matters more for aya/pharma than it does for other drugs. You have to be reaaaally relaxing and meditating into it. It's not hard but you need the right setting. I think.

50g of mimosa can contain over one gram of DMT. With adequate MAO inhibition, a dose of this size can be physically dangerous. (If I remember correctly, a fatal dose of oral DMT is several grams.)

A proper dose administered in the proper way will forcibly lead you into a deep experience, even if you go in kicking and screaming. Mindset influences experiences, and at lower doses meditation can be beneficial, but above a certain point, your “will” cannot resist the effects of this powerful mind-altering substance.

Maybe a bit more work and research regarding proper doses and proper technique is in order?

 

[jamie]

they must have meant 5 grams..not blasting off with 50g seems very very very hard to believe(and why someone would take that much I have no idea??)..even with really low maoi dose 50g should def work somewhat.

 

[amor_fati]

Let's put it this way, average doses of smoked spice and -huasca will be among the most powerful experiences you can have, no matter who you are. There are a number of things that you could be doing wrong, and some of those mentioned have already been pointed out. If you want real help, start by following the sound advice saturating every corner of this site, then give specifics to help us help you if it doesn't work out.

 

[moyshekapoyre]

@gibrand2: how is vaping 500mg of dmt incredibly irresponsible? like it's a waste of stuff? from what i've read, a lot of people here on the nexus do that actually, and it seems to work for them...
also, as for a few grams of DMT being fatal... I've never heard of an LD50 for DMT except IV in mice. do you have a reference for oral LD50?

@fractal: no, not 5g, FIFTY, or maybe 100g since a few of them redosed. perhaps there was insufficient MAOI though quite a bit of caapi copy was given (like 400mg alkaloids IIRC)... but some have suggested that perhaps you need even more maoi... not sure but i continue to think the psychological factor was more at play given the fact that the girl's trip didn't start till she got to her own room in her own house... and that was like 5hrs after dosing... how else could that be explained?

 

[gibran2]

@gibrand2: how is vaping 500mg of dmt incredibly irresponsible? like it's a waste of stuff? from what i've read, a lot of people here on the nexus do that actually, and it seems to work for them...
also, as for a few grams of DMT being fatal... I've never heard of an LD50 for DMT except IV in mice. do you have a reference for oral LD50?

Putting 500mg of DMT into a GVG and having maybe 480mg melt and flow down the sides of the glass is a waste.

I don’t know of anyone here on the Nexus who has successfully vaporized and inhaled 500mg DMT. This amount is an extreme overdose – between 10 and 20 times a normal strong breakthrough dose. Keep in mind that just because you loaded a GVG with 500mg of product doesn’t mean you inhaled 500mg product.

Concerning LD50 data – almost all LD50 data is for mice and rats, occasionally dogs, cats, and very rarely primates. Assuming a demented researcher had approval to determine the LD50 of DMT in humans, I don’t think many people would volunteer for such research! That being said, the LD50 of intramuscular (IM) DMT in mice is 110mg/kg according to this source. This corresponds to about 7.5g in a human being weighing about 150 pounds. I think it’s reasonable to say that oral DMT with MAO inhibition can be fatal in humans. I don’t plan on finding out for myself the size of a fatal dose.

 

[gibran2]

As for the vaping thing... yeah I have the GVG and I have successfully vaped marijuana. Haven't tried salvia vaped in it. But anyway, I had pretty pure white crystals and I just shoved like 500mg or so in the GVG with a mesh bed of some tarragon or something. I lit it up and took like 5 huge hits. Never got much effect, maybe just a little or placebo. I obviously will never be able to do this until I find a friend in real life who can show me. But that's ok. Pharma's cool for now.

From personal experience with a GVG, I can say that due to density of DMT vapor, it is difficult to inhale much more than 30mg in a single breath for someone of average lung capacity. If only one breath is used, then maybe 50, maybe even 75mg. But for multiple hits, 30mg or so is it.

So let’s examine this:

--- Inhaling about 33mg of vapor from a GVG takes about 15 seconds.
--- To allow the vapors to absorb into the bloodstream, one must hold in the vapors for about 20 seconds (at least – longer is better).
--- If taking multiple hits, one has to take a few breaths of fresh air now and then – lets add another 10 seconds for that.

So to vaporize, inhale, hold, and oxygenate takes about 45 seconds for each 33mg.
Let’s do the math: consuming 500mg would take 15 huge hits, and over 11 minutes to accomplish.

Do you honestly expect us to believe that you would be able to maintain contact with consensus reality for over 11 minutes as you inhale dose after dose after dose?

EDIT: Wasn’t it McKenna who said “Take the 3rd hit”? Now we can add moyshekapoyre who says “Take the 15th hit”!

 

[amor_fati]

@gibrand2: how is vaping 500mg of dmt incredibly irresponsible? like it's a waste of stuff? from what i've read, a lot of people here on the nexus do that actually, and it seems to work for them...

Yeah, what gibran said. Consider how long it takes a heated pot of water to produce vapor when it is full of water compared with only having a thin layer of water. Now also consider having goo lining your GVG at less than boiling temperature (indicated in that it's simply not vaporized), I'm pretty sure that much of the vapor that has been produced would get caught in that goo. In any case, this is completely outlandish, and I've never seen anyone on the Nexus attempt something like this, ever.

no, not 5g, FIFTY, or maybe 100g since a few of them redosed. perhaps there was insufficient MAOI though quite a bit of caapi copy was given (like 400mg alkaloids IIRC)... but some have suggested that perhaps you need even more maoi... not sure but i continue to think the psychological factor was more at play given the fact that the girl's trip didn't start till she got to her own room in her own house... and that was like 5hrs after dosing... how else could that be explained?

200mg is typically more than sufficient for harmaloids, and 50g MHRB is at least five times the maximum dose necessary. Also, a -huasca experience typically doesn't even last more than five hours, let alone come on after five hours.

I'd say this case is a combination of placebo and improper technique. Who could rightly say where the flaws in technique may be manifesting, however, as there's no indication of how it was made and how it was taken or even whether or not purging was involved. Sounds like a hell of a lot of material's being wasted, but that's certainly your prerogative.

 

[Ice House]

@gibrand2: how is vaping 500mg of dmt incredibly irresponsible? like it's a waste of stuff? from what i've read, a lot of people here on the nexus do that actually, and it seems to work for them...

Have you bothered to do any research in this area at all?

Where did you read that allot of people on the nexus vape 500mg of dmt?

I'm sorry bro but I gotts to raise the BS flag here. I have a pretty reasonable tolerance and I have vaped many hundreds of times now. 500mg vaped dmt? I just dont believe it, unless of course it was antrocles that did it. other wise I call BS.

 

[moyshekapoyre]

Ok well I'll try vaping less next time, if there ever is a next time. I mean originally I did try vaping like 100mg or so but since that didn't work I figured I'd just throw it all in and see where that went. But yeah it was a waste. I could go looking for the posts I've seen about how people just stuff their pipe full without measuring and it's a great way to do it, but I don't feel like it right now.

I am not saying that I was trying to actually inhale 500mg of spice, just that I figured, why not keep it all in there and inhale whenever I want to. Some people here definitely think it works for them, others definitely caution against it. I get that. It was probably just laziness on my part, plus at that time I didn't have a milligram scale... I'll be more careful next time, I promise...

Now, regarding the aya (since amor_fati asked)... when I've given to people, there has ALWAYS been purging, except for myself... I'm more used to it so I often don't purge.

 

[alzabo]

Maybe you have bad bark. It's really strange these effects you're reporting. Just read any number of trip reports and I think you'll find that something is way off. Could it be that the bark is from a misidentified tree? At only 10 grams bark, I for one get STRONG effects with no nausea. Some people find 3 grams to be mind blowing. If your bark is from a misidentified plant, it might not be so good to eat.

If it were only you experiencing a lack of effects, I might say that you have a wacky physiology but if your friends got little effect as well, it points to either the technique of administration or the materials being administered.

 

[jbark]

Let's put this into a collegiate binge drinking context: most people get strong effects vaping 20mg, some break through at this dose. Let's call it 5 beers. A 60 mg dose is usually the highest ever recommended for breaking through. Let's call it 3x5 = 15 beers. Now you stuffed your GVG with 500mg, or the equivalent in our analogy of 150 beers!

Now for your pharma. A moderate dose is 1-3 grams of MHRB and a highish dose for some is 5g, let's say - 7 beers. You and your friends consumed 10x that, then some redosed 10x that again, or the equivalent of 70 beers + 70 beers = 140 beers.

I assume you have a drink or two in your life, so I hope this puts it into a more familiar context and helps you understand the reactions here. You are claiming (in our analogy) to be able to drink the equivalent of 100-150 beers all at once (or lets say 4 X 40 ouncers of scotch) and NOT FEEL ANY EFFECT (or a slightly "magical" effect in the case of you and the pharma, if I understand correctly). Then when people explain the reasons (bad technique etc) you react mildly defensively.

I apologize in advance to all here for such a crude analogy, but I believe it may get the point across.

You either have the worst smoking/pharma technique in the history of vaping/eating, very VERY bad bark (or bark that is actually maple or oak bark), or I am afraid the BS flag is also raised here.

You can probably (hopefully) see why now.

Cheers,
JBArk

 

[Global]

You really only need to invest in a scale that can read to the hundreth (.00). So .02 would be 20mg, .05 would be 50mg and so on...Also I'm pretty sure you're wasting the majority of your DMT if you're putting it in there in that amount, especially if you claim little to no effects.

 

[moyshekapoyre]

gobalswg: I have since gotten a mg scale.
alzabo: It couldn't be bad bark, because it works for me (even the exact same brew they take), in my room, just not for my friends when they tried (twice) in my room (until one went to her room in her house). Now you do understand why I'm thinking it is psychological and not some other factor?
jbark: I've never gotten drunk on alcohol but I know about how that works. Actually even with alcohol some people require 10x what others require to get drunk. I know this because my sister can outdrink nearly anyone without getting drunk, but most girls get drunk very easily (and my sister almost never drinks alcohol). Now, perhaps if alcohol can be this variable, I am positing, ayahuasca might be even more so. But furthermore I am positing that an important factor in whether/how intensely aya affects someone is their state of mind. I have personal experience with this. For example I have taken a 50g dose before, and felt nothing for about 4 hours until I got really relaxed, lying down in my bed with no disturbances, at which point I had quite an intense experience.

I do feel that people are are not taking me seriously. Why would you raise the BS flag instead of just assuming I am not trying to waste my time and yours? On WIkipedia this is known as assuming good faith. On the other hand it is odd that no one else seems to have had any similar experiences. Well, whatever.