Is there a way to make 5meoDMT like regular DMT is made??

[wilspeak]

Is there a way to make 5meoDMT like regular DMT is made?

 

[SawdustAndHoney]

As in synthesis or extraction?
I don't know of many plants containing 5-MeO-DMT (although I'm sure that there are some), but synthetically yes, the synthesis of 5-MeO is nearly the same as regular DMT, but with the use of 5-methoxytryptamine instead of tryptamine.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Has anyone ever analyzed chaliponga, and/or found more than "trace amounts" of 5meo since the 1980s? :lol: There are lots of old threads debating this, but I haven't seen any recent or definitive analysis made. 5meo has been on my mind a lot lately and I've been digging through old threads.

I drank a lot of Aya with Chaliponga years ago, and the visions were always distinctly different than with Mimosa or Chacruna. I've never had pure 5meo to compare, and bufo is likely contraindicated for me, so snuffs are off the menu.

Looking back at older threads, there was also some discussion of pH issues supposedly causing a fail in 5meo extraction from plant sources. Does anyone know more about this or have any ideas? I have a stash of Chali waiting to be cooked up, and am wondering if there is a more intentional way to go about brewing it. Similarly to how hard boiled MHRB will always yield DMT, but slow cook/low temp yields something vastly more potent and colorful, presumably full spectrum. Does anyone want to spitball about the most effective way to brew a full spectrum chaliponga? Temperature, pH, any other variables?

I obtained my current stash of chali in tandem with chacruna that is active in the 10g range. :shock: Haven't tried the chali yet, but my hopes for this batch are high.

 

[Jim Beem]

At this point in time if 5-MeO-DMT has not been found from a botanical source, let alone extracted from one in a manner which is both reproducible and repeatable by the masses I seriously doubt it'll ever be found or extracted from a botanical source. I think the only natural source capable of producing 5-MeO-DMT in sufficient quantities would only be Bufo alvarius and nothing else at this point in time.

@ ms_manic_minxx:

I don't mean to go off on a tangent but just out of curiosity why would Bufo alvarius be contradicted for yourself and not synthetic 5-MeO-DMT?

 

[Voidmatrix]

While not the best of sources (I'd recommend checking the sources of this source), this Wikipedia page shares the plants thought to contain 5meo. If I can find the time in the next few days, I'll try to get more trustworthy information to add.

One love

 

[Th3_tRuTh]

Yopo seeds have 5meo, bufotenine, and nn, if I understand correctly.

My buddy and I have a ton of them.

I was considering an extraction to pull smoalkable product from some, see how it goes.

EDIT: Of course I could be WAY off as I am nowhere near educated enough on these.

 

[neurobloom]

If you're after a 5-meo-dmt botanical source than phalaris is the way to go. I got one strain that seems to be almost purely 5-meo based on the subjective effects and from what I read. It seems a good yielder as well. So yeah botanical 5-meo isnt far fetched.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

@Jim Beem
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't the toads yield 5meo and bufontenin together? From what I have gathered, bufotenin is a potent vasoconstrictor, whereas the biggest concern with 5meo seems to be respiratory depression.

@Voidmatrix
That wiki link also lists Caapi as containing 5meo :?: But the citation is from Trout's notes? I wish this wasn't such a murky subject

 

[RoundAbout]

The Nexus also has its own Wiki.

Virola bark resin (e.g. epena) is the only traditional source AFAIK. There are a lot of plants with trace amounts.

Edit: Deleted a sentence and attached the McComb source regarding Phalaris, seems pretty unambiguous.

 

[Jim Beem]

I mean, I'm pretty sure if Phalaris grass was such a robust and reliable source of 5-MeO-DMT as some people say it is, people would be extracting it left and right in the psychedelic community by now. Just as they do with DMT and mimosa, mescaline and trichocereus and of course, harmalas and syrian rue but that just isn't the case. Instead most people need to go out of their way milking a poor toad minding its own business in order to obtain the product naturally. As for Virola theiodora bark resin, provided it does even contain 5-MeO-DMT, most people would have better chances of licking their own elbow before sourcing that one successfully.

@ ms_manic_minxx

You're absolutely right. Most tryptamines, hell most psychedelics including mescaline and LSD have that vasoconstrictive effect. 5-MeO-DMT and it's primary metabolite bufotenine is no exception. The severity does differ quite a bit but what worries me the most when it comes to Bufo toxin is the cardiac glycosides which I've been told doesn't vapourise with the 5-MeO-DMT but just having that as a component of the venom freaks me out a bit.

Either way it goes I think the most reliable and ethical way of obtaining 5-MeO-DMT would be the one whos origins are synthetic in nature. I'll stop myself there before breaking any forum rules.

 

[Voidmatrix]

@Voidmatrix
That wiki link also lists Caapi as containing 5meo :?: But the citation is from Trout's notes? I wish this wasn't such a murky subject

I noticed that, and it left me scratching my head lol. If there is 5meo in caapi, it's probably highly negligible and thus probably not a fruitful source. And that's if it even has any.

Also, it's good to see you

One love

 

[dreamer042]

The grass is tricky. You need the right strains, you need to fertilize them correctly, you need to harvest with the right process and at the correct time, and it's a very light product mass/weight with a very low alkaloid content on average. Like other leafy sources, the alkaloids don't extract as readily as they do from bark sources either. This doesn't mean it's not feasible, it's just more effort than most people are going to be willing to put in for a low yield.

That said, I'm just gonna leave this here:

Phalaris aquatica var. stenoptera

(= P. tuberosa var. stenoptera = P. stenoptera)

("Harding-grass", "Holdfast Harding-grass", "Peruvian Wintergrass" )

Introduced cultivar from Australia [This scenario is presented by most. Hortus considers its origin to be unclear.]. Cultivated and naturalized in California and the Pacific Northwest.

Variable amounts. Festi & Samorini 1994 cited Rendig et al. 1970 as finding 135-264 mg of 5-MeO-DMT and 0-60 mg of DMT per ml of expressed juice.

DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are present in foliage [5-MeO-DMT>DMT]. Total indole alkaloid levels hit two peaks of 0.14% in late September and mid November one year but only one peak in one or the other during two other years. In the latter cases; the year with a peak in late September was also around 0.14% while the year with the peak in mid-November was 0.08%. This last year showed some of its lowest values in late September. Their analysis only covered mid September through mid February. Total indolealkylamines were 0.08% or less the rest of the times assayed, with a low around 0.02%. (All values approximate; taken from graphs) Alkaloid levels were found to be markedly different from one month to the next and one year to the next. Rendig et al. 1976.

McComb and coworkers determined the 5-MeO-DMT concentration in Phalaris tuberosa leaves (cv. Hardinggrass) by use of an estimation obtained via UV absorption of the Xanthylium salts formed during the alkaloid's reaction with Xanthydrol.

They reported 0.236% in 7 day old fresh leaves, 0.105% in 9 day old fresh leaves and 0.077% in 21 day old fresh leaves. all figures are % dry weight

They did not evaluate the other components of the leaves in this paper but noted that neither gramine nor hordenine formed colored complexes with Xanthydrol. McComb et al. 1969.

Erowid Online Books : "Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants, and analogs" by Keeper of the Trout

Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants & analogs by Keeper of the Trout (full text) title page

erowid.org

 

[dragonrider]

This is probably more of a theoretical than a practical question, but suppose that you would already have 5-MeO-DMT, either synthetic or from a biological source, would that make extraction easier? I'm asking because i know that synthetic rubies, saphires and emeralds, as well as diamonds are often grown on already existing aluminiumoxide and diamond crystals. Could 5-MeO-DMT be used to start crystalisation from extracted plant material?

 

[neurobloom]

The grass is tricky. You need the right strains, you need to fertilize them correctly, you need to harvest with the right process and at the correct time, and it's a very light product mass/weight with a very low alkaloid content on average. Like other leafy sources, the alkaloids don't extract as readily as they do from bark sources either. This doesn't mean it's not feasible, it's just more effort than most people are going to be willing to put in for a low yield.

That said, I'm just gonna leave this here:

Phalaris aquatica var. stenoptera

(= P. tuberosa var. stenoptera = P. stenoptera)

("Harding-grass", "Holdfast Harding-grass", "Peruvian Wintergrass" )

Introduced cultivar from Australia [This scenario is presented by most. Hortus considers its origin to be unclear.]. Cultivated and naturalized in California and the Pacific Northwest.

Variable amounts. Festi & Samorini 1994 cited Rendig et al. 1970 as finding 135-264 mg of 5-MeO-DMT and 0-60 mg of DMT per ml of expressed juice.

DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are present in foliage [5-MeO-DMT>DMT]. Total indole alkaloid levels hit two peaks of 0.14% in late September and mid November one year but only one peak in one or the other during two other years. In the latter cases; the year with a peak in late September was also around 0.14% while the year with the peak in mid-November was 0.08%. This last year showed some of its lowest values in late September. Their analysis only covered mid September through mid February. Total indolealkylamines were 0.08% or less the rest of the times assayed, with a low around 0.02%. (All values approximate; taken from graphs) Alkaloid levels were found to be markedly different from one month to the next and one year to the next. Rendig et al. 1976.

McComb and coworkers determined the 5-MeO-DMT concentration in Phalaris tuberosa leaves (cv. Hardinggrass) by use of an estimation obtained via UV absorption of the Xanthylium salts formed during the alkaloid's reaction with Xanthydrol.

They reported 0.236% in 7 day old fresh leaves, 0.105% in 9 day old fresh leaves and 0.077% in 21 day old fresh leaves. all figures are % dry weight

They did not evaluate the other components of the leaves in this paper but noted that neither gramine nor hordenine formed colored complexes with Xanthydrol. McComb et al. 1969.

Erowid Online Books : "Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants, and analogs" by Keeper of the Trout

Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants & analogs by Keeper of the Trout (full text) title page

erowid.org

Then how could you explain less than a 100g fresh phalaris brachyatchys with rue making for a strong psychedelic experience that lacks in visuals? None of the recommended harvesting times or fertilization methods have been done to it.. in fact it was harvested at the stage where it had some seeds starting to dry up. Yet this made for a beautiful euphoric trip. It was also my first ever harvest. Am I just that lucky?

I will further prove my point with an extraction on a newer batch soon incubated at alternating temperature between 9 and 14 celcius to break the seed dormancy. (Don't have the patience to wait till December for it to germinate naturally.
I guess we will see.

 

[dithyramb]

Hey Ss.m, did the experience have a strong body component, almost like a whole body orgasm? And was the experience have a heavy focus on "Truth"?

I'm pretty sure the fresh growth will be stronger and possibly with a different character. Keep us posted.

 

[dreamer042]

Then how could you explain less than a 100g fresh phalaris brachyatchys with rue making for a strong psychedelic experience that lacks in visuals? None of the recommended harvesting times or fertilization methods have been done to it.. in fact it was harvested at the stage where it had some seeds starting to dry up. Yet this made for a beautiful euphoric trip. It was also my first ever harvest. Am I just that lucky?

I will further prove my point with an extraction on a newer batch soon incubated at alternating temperature between 9 and 14 celcius to break the seed dormancy. (Don't have the patience to wait till December for it to germinate naturally.
I guess we will see.

Brachystachys is a different beast, it seems to be consistently high(er) in alkaloid content than other species of phalaris. The couple of analyses we have here on the forum seem to point to at least 2 genotypes, one being mostly N,N-DMT and one being mostly 5-MeO-DMT. The fact you got strong tryptamine effects so late in the season is intriguing. It may be that brachy doesn't undergo the changes in alkaloid profile that occur in arundinacea and aquatica species. This is something that desperately needs more research.

 

[neurobloom]

Hey Ss.m, did the experience have a strong body component, almost like a whole body orgasm? And was the experience have a heavy focus on "Truth"?

I'm pretty sure the fresh growth will be stronger and possibly with a different character. Keep us posted.

Hi there.
It was shivery at beginning and kicked in strong it took me by surprise then it turned very euphoric and kinda sedating.. like if I stopped doing anything and just layed down I would drift into very pleasant thoughts coupled with a beautiful body high that was very sweet and delicate. But like any other classical psychedelic it was never just pure bliss but alternating unsettling and positive vibes ..it's not just pure fun neither pure fear.
As for the plant speaking truth part it was more like self reaffirming confidence boosting and the connection between me and soil and earth from which the grass was harvested was a major theme in the trip. Also speaking to me about a bright future for me. Interestingly it took me back to a dawn scene I had captured in my mind the day I was walking home after harvesting and looked at the sun rays shining through dense rain clouds. A scene of hope .. green spring landscape after rain blooming alive.. another theme was decay and rebirth.. how living organism dies and become part of soil again and from which life blooms once again. Ancestors who lived in the same spot where I stood harvesting. As of their force carries on with me as part of that land my origin... That very soil... Physically it was naughty sexual and teasing. Kind but also brute raw and untamed...

Felt like an ancient plant that's not been tamed before.

It was hard to breath without making sounds like when someone is orgasming hahahaha.. since I wasn't living alone and it was late at night it was a challenge to muffle these sounds :d

Just a beautiful plant.

 

[dithyramb]

The sedation and mellowness is characteristic of brachystachys. I think DMT is for sure there, but I am not 100% that I can conclude 5 meo was there. I have not experienced a 5 meo flavor with brachystachys so far. Most aquatica in my region is active and potent and consistently has 5 meo. Thanks for the nice report!

 

[Dirty T]

I'm keeping an eye on all these grass threads. I admit I am intrigued by the possibility of extracting 5meo from grass. I think the main problem has been PH issues destroying whatever 5meo is in the soup. I would imagine the process used to extract a stable 5meo freebase would be similar to the process created by another member to extract 5HO from Cebil seeds. This is likely the reason a solid TEK is not here yet. I have one year left on my lease then we are going to buy a house and I am planting several Mimosa, a Phallaris garden and a San Pedro garden once we move. With the wild variations in alkaloid profile and content seems I will have to clone and use TLC to select said clone. I'm still a year out though. I'm not crazy about the idea of just picking wild grass and going for some crystals, I don't have a personal TLC setup yet and it varies too much plant to plant. I'm definitely in for helping research and development of a solid extraction TEK.

 

[Guda]

I tought 5meoDMT on Chaliponga was a confirmed thing in trace amounts, funny to know none was found on tests runned by people here.

Why do you guys think it makes people experience different, crispier visions compared to Chacruna, just a difference in potency? a greater amount of DMT in the leaf, making it more like a smoked DMT experience?

And why people don't extract DMT from Chaliponga/Chacruna leaf as much as MHRB?
(I Never smoked DMT or Drank Ayahuasca yet)