Is there any usable Northern European native plant sorces to dmt/betacarbolines?

[norcereus]

I have seen in the many lists, mentions of plants naitive to my region that contain dmt, such as Phalaris grass and Phragmites australis. And indeed Phalaris is much mentiond in the literature and of cource is of interest. But Phragmites is litle explored it seemes, I have read that it is usable, at least as an posible admixture in an ayahuasca analouge, and one paper I have read clames it to be a good source. It has also been used as food in times of need and the chinese use it in their medecin. Any one know why next to noone experiments with it, it seem like a safe thing to try. I have herd that the submerged roots contain more of the alkaloid, you migth have to ingest lots of it but if you pay atention to season and other wariables it shuld be doable. Not as a sorce of smokable dmt of cource but as an admixture in an ayahuasca analouge.
And that leeds to the biggest problem with northern native plant -hoasca idea, the maoi sorce. I have not read of any that grow here or that will be easy to grow here. Had peganum harmalla been easy to grow here there would be litle problem, it seems almost easyer to grow banesteriopsis capi in a green house. perhaps Tribulus terrestris will be shown to be both effective easy enough to grow to be a viable source. but there realy shuld be something growing in our climatic sone that can be a good enoug maoi to be of use.

Any one that have any ideas that can lead me in the rigth direction.

 

[norcereus]

As I read all I can about The lokal plant life I start to lose the belife that I will find any thing. I still think there is something out there, but how to find the rigth plants and the rigth tec to make something usable out of it?
Phalaris seems to be the best bet, but when harvesting it in the vild I vill have to do lots of extraktions to get any desent results. but I must admit I do not fancy the idea of smoking dmt, but I would try ayahuasca or its analouges if I could get some. So what I am looking for is materials that will enable me to make an ayahusaca analouge rather than something I can extract in to pure componds. I do not mind the taste of most mind altering brews, the discomfort is a smal price to pay for the doors to the other worlds.

 

[Ginkgo]

Hey fellow Norwegian!

The only plants that are known to potentially have a good quantity of entheogenic tryptamines from this part of our world, would be Phalaris aquatica and Phalaris arundinacea. Phalaris brachystachys can also be cultivated, but it will die during winter.

You should look into cultivating Mimosa hostilis or Desmanthus illinoensis. Start the plants inside, set them out in good soil when spring comes, and harvest the roots when winter comes again. It would be a good idea to not harvest all the roots from M. hostilis, as you then can use the same tree(s) the next spring. You would probably need a growbox for this, but with Desmanthus illinoensis you can do it without any growbox.

Plants with good amounts of beta-carbolines does to my knowledge simply not grow here. You should try to buy some Peganum harmala seeds and cultivate them in a growbox. They are hard to get from the seedling phase, but when so is done, they are not that hard to cultivate.

 

[sonofsnow]

greetings from the cold north.

The only MAOI that i can come to think of in the cold north is Blackcurrant(Ribes nigrum). It is said that 250-300ml is enough.
SWIM have never tried it with DMT. But SWIM has had some nice effekts from it combiend with Psilocybe semilanceata. With shrooms soaked in lemon juice 15min before ingesting SWIM got a very powerfull experience but a short one(2-4 hours). Lemon juice replaced with Blackcurrant 300ml from garden very powerfull experience and normal duration(for SWIM this is 6-8 hours).

Take care =)

 

[norcereus]

Hey fellow Norwegian!

The only plants that are known to potentially have a good quantity of entheogenic tryptamines from this part of our world, would be Phalaris aquatica and Phalaris arundinacea. Phalaris brachystachys can also be cultivated, but it will die during winter.

You should look into cultivating Mimosa hostilis or Desmanthus illinoensis. Start the plants inside, set them out in good soil when spring comes, and harvest the roots when winter comes again. It would be a good idea to not harvest all the roots from M. hostilis, as you then can use the same tree(s) the next spring. You would probably need a growbox for this, but with Desmanthus illinoensis you can do it without any growbox.

Plants with good amounts of beta-carbolines does to my knowledge simply not grow here. You should try to buy some Peganum harmala seeds and cultivate them in a growbox. They are hard to get from the seedling phase, but when so is done, they are not that hard to cultivate.

Hei
I have one desmanthus growing rigth now, but I read that it shuld be several years old do be of any use. I have tried to grow Peganum harmala several years ago, but as you say they are dificult to grow and all the plants died during the summer. I whant to grow Mimosa hostilis but are not fond of ordering seeds from abroad, some one may take interest in me and come to pay me a visit, but one day I will have the seeds. I have seen some discusions on the forum around the plant tribulus terrestris, it may be easier to grow, but it contains harman(e), norharman(e), harmol, and harmalol not the usual harmine and harmaline. I may try to grow that one if I can get some seeds, it may be stopped since it can be an invasive species in some ereas, but I gues it is not watched as a drug plant (yet). As for blackcurrants I have no belife that they will have good enogh maoi aktion to enable oral dmt, we drink lots of juce of them all winter and mix it with red vine for a cold remedy. never ever notised any even sligth effekt from them.

 

[Felnik]

what about russian olive trees? I've heard some good things about them . they are invasive here in parts of New England and grow everywhere.

 

[norcereus]

what about russian olive trees? I've heard some good things about them . they are invasive here in parts of New England and grow everywhere.

I have tryed to find out as much as I can about this plant and it seemes that it may oraly aktivate the spice, but there is some doubt. All the resetch I can find lists harman and others, and harman does not seeme to oraly aktivate anything. but the rusian olive contains other harmala alkaloides to but does it contain enough. one have to ingest lots of the in aktive harman to get enough of the aktive harmallas, and I supose that can be dangerus. I have read in tihkal the tree contains: 2-MeTH(beta)c, tetrahydroharman, harmalan, harman, tetrahydroharmol, harmol, tetrahydroharmine(eleagnus spp.) and harmine. but in what amounts, in what part of plant and what season? I might do so nibeling but I wonder if it is safe?

 

[Dorge]

passion flower can be grown indoors or in a green house and can be concentrated down and smoked as a changa... this is the least pleasant one as the after effects are noticeable to some... and its very sedating.
seeds as well as cutting of B. Caapi vine can be obtained and grown also indoors or in a green house and can produce enough leaf to be smoked with dmt or taken with local mushrooms creating an interesting effect much like ayahausca in some regards.
Growing B. Caapi indoors or in a green house or even a hot house would be a great idea in Norway. Smoked harmalas are by far much more active in lower amounts then ingesting them. a concentration of 10gms of caapi leaves evaporated down to 1 gm of caapi leaf makes an amazing smoke that looks incredible and will whens moked with spice produce a very prolonged and incredibly ayahausca like experience.
You must have local psilocybes growing there and if not, one must be able to get spores at least for growing them your self indoors and if one has say cyaneceans growing indoors the stem butts can be slowly naturallized on saw dust and grown out side in hard wood chip beds. A light dose of mushrooms and a few bowls of concentrated caapi leaf will produce the inner voice phenomena that makes ayahausca so famous...

I have to say I appreciate your localism!

 

[norcereus]

passion flower can be grown indoors or in a green house and can be concentrated down and smoked as a changa... this is the least pleasant one as the after effects are noticeable to some... and its very sedating.
seeds as well as cutting of B. Caapi vine can be obtained and grown also indoors or in a green house and can produce enough leaf to be smoked with dmt or taken with local mushrooms creating an interesting effect much like ayahausca in some regards.
Growing B. Caapi indoors or in a green house or even a hot house would be a great idea in Norway. Smoked harmalas are by far much more active in lower amounts then ingesting them. a concentration of 10gms of caapi leaves evaporated down to 1 gm of caapi leaf makes an amazing smoke that looks incredible and will whens moked with spice produce a very prolonged and incredibly ayahausca like experience.
You must have local psilocybes growing there and if not, one must be able to get spores at least for growing them your self indoors and if one has say cyaneceans growing indoors the stem butts can be slowly naturallized on saw dust and grown out side in hard wood chip beds. A light dose of mushrooms and a few bowls of concentrated caapi leaf will produce the inner voice phenomena that makes ayahausca so famous...

I have to say I appreciate your localism!

It would be a dreem to grow capi of some sort, I migth try that some time. as for our other friends the mushrooms no problem there there is seweral varietys around my erea. Have grown pasiflora but do not se the point other than as a ornament or edible.

Is it true that harmalla alkaloides are fluorecent, so that one can use that as a indication of the presence of the more important types?

As for localism, I do not whant to rely on getting things troug the mail and customs. and growing the plants or harwesting in nature gives the experience meaning and depth. Geting to know plants is rewarding, and the magical ones is espesialy informative.

 

[Dorge]

As for localism, I do not whant to rely on getting things troug the mail and customs. and growing the plants or harwesting in nature gives the experience meaning and depth. Geting to know plants is rewarding, and the magical ones is espesialy informative.

i agree!
and yes under a black light they tend to glow...

 

[Ginkgo]

I have one desmanthus growing rigth now, but I read that it shuld be several years old do be of any use.

Well yeah, some years would be the best, but only one season should be sufficient if you have enough plants. If you have a growbox indoors, you can grow both Desmanthus and Mimosa there during winter.

I have seen some discusions on the forum around the plant tribulus terrestris, it may be easier to grow, but it contains harman(e), norharman(e), harmol, and harmalol not the usual harmine and harmaline.

Besides the obvious drastically different effects you will get from these alkaloids compared to both caapi and syrian rue, isn't the concentration incredibly low? The only study I could find through a quick search determined the alkaloid content to as low as 0.0044%.

Have grown pasiflora but do not se the point other than as a ornament or edible.

I think you should be able to more or less separate the harmala-alkaloids from the sedatives. If you grow a lot of Passiflora incarnata you could therefore have the harmala-alkaloids you need. Besides, they are hyperactive when smoked, plain P. incarnata leaf or flower is a great caapi substitute for changa.

Is it true that harmalla alkaloides are fluorecent, so that one can use that as a indication of the presence of the more important types?

Yeah, that's true. One beloved member here glowed for several days, after it was attempted to use the alkaloids in the face as war-paint.

 

[Ginkgo]

what about russian olive trees? I've heard some good things about them . they are invasive here in parts of New England and grow everywhere.

Oh, I missed this. First time I have heard about Elaeagnus angustifolia, thank you so much! The bark contains around 0.2% harmala-alkaloids, according to Dr. Duke's database. The fruit also supposedly contains actives, although the identity and concentration of them are unknown. One user reported 1 fruit to give a subtle dreamy state. Others report that the effects from E. angustifolia bark is more similar to B. caapi than to P. harmala. Seems like a wonderful source, in other words!

On a side note, the Gimi tribe from the New Guinean Highlands smoke a Elaeagnus species together with tobacco to enter a trance state.

 

[sauroman1]

Cold climate surviving MAOI plants could be ST. John's wort (weak), passiflora incarnata (medium potency). Also rhadiola rosea is know to contain high amounts of MAO-A and MAO-B.
If all phalaris brachytachys contain a lot of DMT then it's a good and fast growing source. I grow this plant myself. Although I see that brachytachys grows poorly during winter even indoors, probably lack of light and low temperature near windows. After all this plant is native in Portugal where hardiness zone is high
Even better source than desmathus il. could be lespedeza bicolor.
I would also be interested to find alternative to syrian rue.