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JLL's perspective on DMT entities

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blue lunar night said:
Hi All,

Thought I'd take the liberty of reposting an excerpt from John Lash's recent email newsletter, in which he responds to a request for his take on the DMT entities. I found his explication to be thorough and useful, tho some may be confused by the references to his work, & of course not everyone will agree.

I neither agree or disagree, I just find it's good that he delivers it in "absolute terms" it is after all his take on his own experience. Why litter it with "imos's" and "maybes" ?

Some erudite and eloquent members of this forum may hasten to remind me that I took issue with absolutes, especially in relation to the more mystical aspects of the DMT sensorium.
However subsequent experiences, some of them quite profound, left me with very firm convictions of my own that have zero scientific or philosophical foundations. One of them being that the entire( in all it's unfathomable depths) DMT sensorium is little more than a high tech pinball machine in Gods amusement arcade.

There's a little voice telling me that if I want to find out more , a: I need to die, b: I need to summon up the courage to "break through" on a heroic dose of 5MeO DMT. something I'm not prepared to do at this moment in time.( if ever)

I do not personaly know Martin Ball or James Oroc, but from what I can glean from their writings, I tend to lend more creedance to their more simplistic conclusions about the nature of life and death ( and ultimately God) than the torrents of florid and abstract "convinctions" of the average DMT user, myself included.

:|
Click to expand...
 
arcanum said:
I do not personaly know Martin Ball or James Oroc, but from what I can glean from their writings, I tend to lend more creedance to their more simplistic conclusions about the nature of life and death ( and ultimately God) than the torrents of florid and abstract "convinctions" of the average DMT user, myself included.
Click to expand...


From reading Oroc's "Tryptamine Palace" I would say that Oroc is more florid and abstract than many here. That is just my opinion, and it's also my opinion that he shouldn't speak in absolutes and speak for himself (at least offer a disclaimer somewhere once) but that's just me. It just makes it more frustrating to read if he claims something absolutely in regards to the DMT experience that runs directly counter to what I or others may experience. It is his blog, and he's free to write how he wants, but that's just how it comes across to me. I feel that if you're trying to lend viability to a case or argument, more subjective-oriented speech tends to avoid statements that can be easily shown to be clearly false. I try to avoid generalizations for similar reasons.
 
SnozzleBerry said:
I must say, I'm always amused by people who talk in such certainty about these phenomena.

There are a number of quotes in this piece that immediately jump out as needing citation (or at least elaboration) for such definitive claims, imo. I don't feel up to running through them all now, but for the time being I will highlight the conclusion:

Of course, synthetic DMT which produces the DMT
trolls has different effects from the jungle brew..
Click to expand...
:?

Why of course? What difference exists? Why have some people reported shamans to find extracted DMT a "legitimate" experience (to say nothing of indigenous snuffs)? What is the difference between vaporized DMT entities and entities encountered on ayahuasca (I know I have encountered similar, if not identical, entities)? Does the author even understand the difference between synthesized and extracted compounds?
Click to expand...
..i'm with Snozz in amusement by the whole take..especially the Brownian motion theory..

very few people smoke synthetic dmt these days..it's all a plant experience..it's simply the metabolic process that's different..i.e the addition of harmalas modulates the dmt experience..

as the Nexus-Wiki shows, the range and scope of dmt (or ayahuasca) entities is vast..

like, i've never seen 'Trolls', on either synthetic or extracted material..

tryptamine entities could be 'fractal denizens of the unconscious' (McKenna), or actual discarnate entities ('Spirits', as most indigenous peoples call them), or various 'explanations', but who on earth can really claim to have the faintest idea..except maybe ancient shamanic traditions who regard them as spirits..from a vast parallel or interconnected realm..
The Dakini-fractures exemplify the physical reality of what medical
scientists call "labile affect" without knowing actually that they're
talking about. I define this phenomenon as life communicating with
itself across natural boundaries of self-definition.

By contrast, the DMT entities are excitations of the dema produced by
the intensity of human observing. They might be called "demanoid",
Click to expand...
..frankly i find this utterly ridiculous..it's like pseudo-buddhism meets pseudo science..
i don't sense that JLL really has much idea what he's talking about..
where's the evidence for this theory?..let alone anything to counter the frequent subjective sense by those seeing DMT entities that in fact those entities have their attention on us..

really, Carlos Castaneda has more solid 'data' IMO than this guy..

Ayahuasca is DMT (modulated, metabolised and accompanied by beta-carbolines)
 
arcanum said:
I neither agree or disagree, I just find it's good that he delivers it in "absolute terms" it is after all his take on his own experience. Why litter it with "imos's" and "maybes" ?

Some erudite and eloquent members of this forum may hasten to remind me that I took issue with absolutes, especially in relation to the more mystical aspects of the DMT sensorium.
However subsequent experiences, some of them quite profound, left me with very firm convictions of my own that have zero scientific or philosophical foundations. One of them being that the entire( in all it's unfathomable depths) DMT sensorium is little more than a high tech pinball machine in Gods amusement arcade.

There's a little voice telling me that if I want to find out more , a: I need to die, b: I need to summon up the courage to "break through" on a heroic dose of 5MeO DMT. something I'm not prepared to do at this moment in time.( if ever)
Click to expand...

Hey arcanum 8)

I addressed your disclaimer issue in another thread here instead of on this thread. I won't repeat it, but just say that I am happy to see you have come to the place where you recognize that disclaimers are a bit of a waste of time.

Perhaps just one, so that the less critical thinking among us don't get the wrong idea.

As for your point about finding out more... I don't think you need to die. And doing a heroic 5 Meo DMT dose is very much akin to dying. No no. I think you can find out more by dropping some more psychic walls in places you have already been. Deepening your meditation is easier than invoking NDEs. I would also try asking new questions to the higher entities you come across.

Sometimes you just reach plateaus and need to digest for a while before foraging ahead.

Be well my friend.
HF
 
My favourite book of his was Sex, Drugs and Magick and is still one of my favourite overall books to date.

Maybe not as popular as the Illuminatus trilogy (admittedly I have only read the first one fully) and definitely not as thick but it had a lot of info that really resonated with me (The hashashin chapter especially)..

Yeah baby I like it R.A.W. :thumb_up:
 

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