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Jorkest's D-Limonene & Fumaric Acid Approach

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hi there,
this seems to be a really great, safe, non-toxic tek. many thanks jorkest, and all who helped compile data. swim has started this tek with 100g chacruna. after the d-limo pulls, swim noticed that the d-limo was whispy/cloudy, and after a while, there is a white coagulated mass at the bottom of d-limo jars-(approx 200ml).
was wondering if anyone else has noticed this, and is is spice, base?>?>
thanks
 
remember to freebase using ammonia or convert the n-oxide to nn using zink or your yeild will be something like 10% of what it could/should be.
it seems 90% of the spice in chacruna is in n-oxide form.
 
hmm, swim was hoping to keep salt form. are you saying that using this tek with chacruna, that NN+JS will be lost in the D-limo after adding FASW? or are you saying it was not pulled with the STB in the d-limo in the first place?
where will the loss occur?
thanks
 
I'm pretty sure this tek pulls a full spectrum of alkaloids including N-Oxide and JS.

I imagine SWI-Phlux was thinking of Naphtha teks.

With chacruna it is still a good idea to convert that back to n,n-DMT just because it's easier to deal with and helps to form more cohesive xtals.
 
no no no - soo much of confuzion.

what u are doing is perfect if you intend to keep it in salt form.

what i said is that chacruna has most of its spice in n-oxide form so if you use the sodium carbonate paste method for freebasing, your acetone pulls will only pull the dmt - leaving 90% of what u extracted behind.
if one wants freebase spice from this tek they must freebase using ammonia then evap as dmt-n-oxide is insoluble in acetone.
if the sodium carbonate tek is used to freebase, how does one separate the sodium carbonate and freebase n-oxide ? - i have no idea, both are water soluble thats why i suggested using a base that is a gas.
or
the n-oxide can be converted to spice in an acidic environment using zink then freebased using the sodium carbonate paste tek.

i dont think of naptha tek's - naptha is a useless solvent.
 
No offense intended :)

I agree that naphtha is highly undesirable. Sadly I dislike Xylene on the same premises but can't help but admire the usefulness of FASA.

I didn't realize that you were referring to n-Oxide freebase not being soluble in acetone since he wanted the salts. Is it really completely insoluble in acetone? I could swear SWIM was handed some d-limo->fasw freebased spice that was dissolved as a freebase with acetone, that was lightly yellowed with n-Oxide. Of course this was with MHRB so the contamination wasn't high, but if it isn't n-oxide what is it?
 
ok, so when the d-limo was washed with FASW, the cloudiness reappeared as visible white particles BETWEEN the D-limo and the FASW phases--indicating insolubility in both. still wondering what this layer could be?? FASW evapping now. slight d-limo residue contamination.
 
the loss on conversion made it obvious that loads was being lost so bob took some spice and used hydrogen peroxide to convert it to n-oxide - tried to disolve 20mg of the n-oxide in about 50ml warm acetone - nothing disolved, the acetone was poured off.
5ml of water was added and the n-oxide almost instantly disolved.
 
ok so after a bit of break from my alchemical experiements and the nexus SWIM decided to jump on board and try this tek. First time working with limonen and fumaric acid.

What a amazing tek! Thankyou imensely for assembling it and sharing it with us Jorkest, respect. It is so much better working with limonene compared to other solvents.

SWIM has had a couple of little issues however. The major problem comes from limonene contamination in the fumarate spice stage.

It has become apparent that if the filtering steps in the tek are not adhered to, once the FASW is evaporated the spice is left with a distinctly orangey smell. This mixed with the usual smell of DMT is not particlularly pleasant and it is something that SWIM would like to rectify.

SO the question is. Should the DMT fumarate be redisolved in water and filtered again? OR once it is freebased can the limonene be seperated by filtering during the Acetone pull?
 
soulfood said:
I always do a rextalisation with water before freebasing any fumerates. I've not really noticed and limonene in my spice after that.
Click to expand...

SWIM 2nd's this. She puts the d-limonene tainted FASW through a device with a thin filter paper(an Aeropress) twice and notices a very slight decrease in d-limonene aroma. After evaporating the water in the oven she does not notice much, if any, of an orangey smell(granted she has very dry sinuses). After doing only one recrystalization with water and evaporating in the oven, upon opening the small vial and taking a whiff she notices only a strange crayon smell.... she has not performed the freebase stage yet.
 
with the water recrystalization, is swim trying to also wash away the fumaric acid as well as removing limonene?
if so, how much water is used to redissolve spice and leave fumaric?
has anyone else noticed a layer of contaminant between the limonene and FASW?--swim used chacruna.
the contaminant was separated and dried--it is whiteish and does smell of orange.
 
biopsylo said:
with the water recrystalization, is swim trying to also wash away the fumaric acid as well as removing limonene?
if so, how much water is used to redissolve spice and leave fumaric?
Click to expand...

SWIM performs the water recrystalization in order to remove the excess fumaric acid... not to remove residual limonene.

She says it seems that after evaporating the limonene-tainted, spice-saturated FASW, most of the residual limonene is gone, and that after evaporating the cleaned up spice-saturated water, there is no perceivable limonene aroma.... the removal of residual limonene seems to occur during the two evaporations.


This is the method that SWIM uses for removing excess fumaric acid >>


Bufoman's Method of Removing Excess Fumaric Acid:

To separate the desirables from the fumaric acid one simply adds 12mL H2O per gram of material. (the DMT fumarate is soluble in the water while the fumaric acid is not).

The aqueous (now yellow) solution is carefully decanted into a clean beaker or drying surface.

The water is reduced by 1/2 with a hair drier and then allow to sit open to the air and slowly evaporate.

Within a day (at most) large transparent crystals will begin to precipitate out one can collect these. (If one does not care about ascetics the solution can just be rapidly evaporate with a hair drier or on the oven and the crystals utilized right away. However SWIM recommends the crystallization.)

The remaining solution is then reduced again with a hair drier and allowed to sit as before. Once it has fully evaporated the crystals can be collected.


SWIM uses the oven for quicker evaporation.
 
well guys sorry i havent posted in awhile...silly work taking ALL my energy..but i am soon to have some free energy to spend on the nexus...anyway...im glad people are having a good time with this tek....its always nice to hear how much fun people are having it...im gonna try to go back into it and see if i can modify some parts to incorporate all these amazing finds everyone has had to get a better end product...and a better yield...and maybe try to make it slightly easier..

now here are some of my questions for you...what is n-oxide soluble in? water i know..but what about IPA 99%...and doesnt pure IPA float on basic water? and if it did...couldnt you just freebase the FASW saturated with spice...and then put the IPA in...stir around..decant ipa..then evaporate the IPA...

biopsylo - sometimes when adding the FASW SWIM notices a cloudiness..that settles after a few hours...sometimes less...and then he also notices the layer...not sure what it is...but also not sure if we are seeing the same thing
 
thanks for the clarification. :) seems easy enough to remove the fumaric. what is the estimated ratio of acid to spice using this tek?
also Jorkest: i used chacruna this time, so could this layer be plant oils?
i would assume n-oxide would be soluble in most alcohols. but most are also hygroscopic, would be surprised if 99 isopropanol sat on top of base water.
 
just another quick question:;
should the d-limo be clear after fasw washes? swim noticed it is still quite yellow after after fasw steps.
and the d-limo is ok to use in the next extraction as well?
 
now here are some of my questions for you...what is n-oxide soluble in? water i know..but what about IPA 99%...and doesnt pure IPA float on basic water? and if it did...couldnt you just freebase the FASW saturated with spice...and then put the IPA in...stir around..decant ipa..then evaporate the IPA...
still looking for an answer to this...

the limo will stay yellowish after the FASW washes
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
all i can add is this.
n-oxide was insoluble in acetone and ipa is a type of alcahol - wouldnt it mix with water very well - if it separated wouldnt the 4% water in 96% ipa sink to the bottom ?
i bet u could add sodium carbonate to the fasw (because there is very little - add loads of sodium carbonate) making it a paste - dries fast this way, then dry and pull with acetone.
Those fasw pulls are rather small so this could work out - but the question is why would one want to do this ? - the tek is simple enough and perfect as is.
 
hahah well thanks phlux for calling this tek simple and perfect... :) but SWIM wants that dmt n-oxide in the mix...i feel like SWIM is losing tons of stuff to that...and yeah its gonna be gooey but whatever...

i suppose SWIM could just add some zinc powder the the FASW pull..but not sure if fumaric acid will bring the PH to around 3 or not
 
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