Jorkest's D-Limonene & Fumaric Acid Approach

[Jorkest]

well there MAY not be another molecule..but its most certainly a completely different experience...its way easier
..more gentle and warm..also very visual for SWIM..he prefers it to crystals...

 

[WSaged]

One thing I'm recalling is that one of the serious chemists (was it benzyme....or bufoman, sorry if I'm assigning credit incorrectly) was INSISTING somewhere that column chromotography, etc., demonstrated very clearly that there IS no such thing as jungle spice (no such alkaloid, anyway). Obviously, there's coloration, etc., but this person was convinced there's no extra alkaloid involved.

I think the theory would be (or maybe I'm making it up as I go along), that "jungle spice" just includes some "binder-like" molecule that comes along with the DMT, which acts subtly on it's rate of absorption somehow, perhaps...

Well I dint go to no fancy siantist schoolin' or nutt'in,
but I can tell you for sure, from personal experience testing it by itself, that there is something else pulled out with Xelene & D-Limo that is 100% active on it's own.
Similar to DMT, but so much more strange when smoked by itself!!
In fact, Jungle Spice is also more potent by weight.
All you need of the J-Spice is 20-30mg on average for a breakthrough experience, where pure DMT takes around 50mg for the average, full-on dose.

The first time I tried it, I used Xylene to do 3 more pulls on some Mimosa bark solution that already had all of the DMT pulled out of it with Naptha.
So it was spent bark!!
Well, low & behold some reddish colored oil evaporated out of the Xylene,.
It took months for the Xylene to fully dry out (seriously) so I could try some of it, but it eventually did.
Although it was still an oily little ball & a pain in the ass to deal with & to smoke like that!
(The J-Spice extracted with D-Limo is cleaner & soooooooooo much more enjoyable to deal with!!! It's a wax, not an oil when finished.)

It was by all means active on it's own & by all means NOT DMT!!!
2 close friends also tried it & confirmed the same exact thing.
I ended up giving the rest of it to one of them, as he liked it a lot & I didn't really like having to try & deal with the oily mess anyway...
They were both very experienced with DMT before this too, so they noticed the difference right away.

I didn't explain to one of them that it was (technically) something different, just that I used a diff extraction tek to get it & it was much dirtier than what we were used to.
When he came back out of it, he started talking immediately about how he noticed right away that it wasn't the normal DMT we had shared in the past.
So there you go...what ever that is worth.

Ya know man... I want to say it again, loud...
WE NEED TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE TO CALL THIS STUFF!!!!
Damn, I hate saying & typing the term "Jungle Spice"!!
I don't really now why, I guess I just feel a bit stupid saying that!
I was telling a friend about it the other day & he busted out laughing at me, when the word "jungle spice" came out of my mouth all natural-like.
And I feel he was 100% right in doing so!!:lol:
Anyway....


WS

 

[Jorkest]

hmm..what shall we call it then?

 

[WSaged]

hmm..what shall we call it then?

I really don't know, but I've been thinking about it every time I read or post in a thread that has anything to do with Jungle Spice though.
It has bothered me ever since the first time I saw it used!!:?
Until we come up with something more suitable, I think "J-Spice" is light years better!!


As far as the yield from this D-Limo/FASW tek goes, I'm all for officially naming it:
"J-Spice"

But the J stands for Jokerst!! Not freaking Jungle!!:lol:


What ya think?

WS

 

[SWIMfriend]

I'm not gonna get into this anymore here--because it's not the subject of the thread, and because I CERTAINLY don't want to argue about it, especially with you guys--who have direct experience with it....but....

If I recall the discussion/description right (by the chemist): I think the conclusion was that "jungle spice" was actually "clumped together" DMT into higher molecular weight groupings.

The main post I'm referring to (but there are others, some of which are in non-public threads) is by bufoman here

 

[Phlux-]

i read the same thing but i can vouch 100% for the fact that the jungle isolated by its self is active and when smoked with spice it is 100% different, 1 thing that stands out alot to me about it is that it takes a lot longer to come on and its not as violent - is more like moving into a dream, far more friendly and pleasant. I prefer the jungalized spice too - only from this tek tho - never again will the xylene jungle be smoked.

 

[SWIMfriend]

i read the same thing but i can vouch 100% for the fact that the jungle isolated by its self is active and when smoked with spice it is 100% different, 1 thing that stands out alot to me about it is that it takes a lot longer to come on and its not as violent - is more like moving into a dream, far more friendly and pleasant. I prefer the jungalized spice too - only from this tek tho - never again will the xylene jungle be smoked.

Well, I guess I'm going to have to add jungle spice to the nebulizer equation. Garulfo has posted on the nebulizer thread that freebase dissolves VERY readily in 2 drops of one particular essential oil (but I suspect most oils would work). That would probably work with jungle spice just as well...

 

[WSaged]

Yeah, whether or not the "Jungle" effect is coming from an "official alkaloid" or not, it is active on it's own & also lends something very nice to DMT when left in there with it.
(for example, Salvinorin A is not an alkaloid, but it is definitely psycoactive!! I forget what it is exactly, but I think it has more in common with an opiate...right?)

Like I said, why not have two different types of the DMT experience to choose from? Ya know.:d


WS

 

[Phlux-]

hey now variation is the spice of life
swim always has more than one kinda spice.

 

[WSaged]

Lil update on the room temp recrystallization, I noticed that the DMT had stopped noticeably growing so I made a small razor slit in the plastic wrap sealing the precip jar, to start slowly evaporating the Bestine.
The crystals are nice & big!!

I borrowed a camera so I could take a few detailed pics this time.

Post em later!

WS

 

[Jorkest]

hahaha im all for j-spice! hehe...anyway..SWIM is about to start a new extraction...most likely he will be done at the end of the day if everything goes well..SWIM is excited to make some changa from this stuff...he finally made some money and got himself some acetone..yay..so hes gonna get the materials are ready and dive right in...

it would be exciting if more people would check out this tek..

 

[WSaged]

I got my nicely grown "agave crystals" (they look like tiny 'lil clear Agave cactus) out of the bestine.
I poured the other 12ml of solvent into a clean beaker to finish evaping & I put a small "seed" crystal in there to help attract the remaining spice.
They are incredible!!!
(The digital camera I borrowed has dead batteries in it :? , I'll need to go get some new ones before I can post some pics...)

I weighed them & the biggest one is .168mg!! I'll hate to break it up into doses!! (no I won't:twisted
The others weighed:
.112mg
.101mg
.079mg
.067mg
.056mg (going to test this one out...prolly tonight...we'll see)
.032mg
.026mg

A total of .641mg of solid-ass DMT!!!
HooYa!


Jokerst, did you ever finish with your extraction of Chaliponga leaf?
You where going to basify it, right?
So have you smoked any? As is, or in Changa?

I am quite curious about that one!!

Ya think one would be able to use Naptha to remove any "J" (hahaha) elements & still have the Bufo, 5-Meo & N,N-DMT's?
Only so it would (hopefully) reach some kind of solid crystal-like end result.

Or do you guys think that would remove so much of the "full spectrum" alkaloid mixture of Chaliponga, as to make it not really worth using Chali in the first place?

Just shoot'in the shit here...

WS

 

[SWIMfriend]

Will definitely be trying this tek, to give jungle spice a proper workout and comparison to "pure" spice.

Also, I'm REALLY hot to see those pics!

 

[logos2012]

SWIM has been experimenting with IPA washes, and it works very well. First off it works well for washing the fumarates, it cleans them up substantially, changing them from a yellow/orange tinted powder to a very-near white powder after three IPA washes. SWIM thinks that the jungle fumarates may be soluble in IPA, and knows that limo is (it doesn't form a separate layer, but seems to settle toward the bottom). Anyhow, IPA also works very well for the freebase step, yielding circular crystal formations, that when scraped result in an off-white powder that doesn't liquify on you when it gets hot out (a problem SWIM was having when using acetone in the freebase step). If you are doing the freebase step using IPA, evap at room temp, just set it out for a 6 hours or so and it will be fine, but SWIM has had problems with the crystal formations when evapping either with higher temps or a constant airflow.

One thing SWIM really wants to find an easier way to do, is breaking up the fumarates. The smaller you chop it up, the more it can be cleaned by the IPA, but doing this by hand can be very tedious.

Anyhow, would love to hear others results using IPA for the freebase step, this is the only way SWIM has been able to get solid smokeables that aren't at all sticky from a limo tek, and also the only way he has gotten his expected yields from the freebase step.

Yup, IPA all the way. SWIM did 3 IPA washes on the fumerates. Then chopped them up real fine. What works good to chop them up is to use something glass and round like a pill bottle or small jar. Roll the glass object over the fumerates to flatten them out, scrape off the glass, then chop them up, then roll, scrape, and chop again. Should be close to powder. This works good after mixing with sodium carbonate as well. Roll it, scrape it, chop it to mix them when they are dry, then add water, and after it dries do it again. This should make sure all of it gets freebased and that SWIY will get the best yeild.

Anyway, as far as the IPA, SWIM's crystal formations looked similar to SWIY's. Nice and clear and beautiful. They started forming hexagons and other geometries cause there were so many. Scraped into a mostly white but tinted yellow powder without having to spread around and scrape up again. Maybe I will have to get him to post a pic sometime.

SWIM's yeild seems to be good too. Out of 114 grams of bark, the final freebase yeild seems close to at least a gram and a half. SWIM doesn't trust his shitty scale so he is not even going to try to weigh it. Stuff barely smells too. Definitely smells a little but not overwhelming like naphtha extracted stuff.

Perhaps the jungle does get washed in the IPA washes (be nice to know for sure though, could be just fats/oils) but SWIM would rather have beautiful crystals this way than having to resort to naphtha. Also he thinks it's a good idea to do IPA washes to the fumerates cause his still smelled like d-limonene even after filtering twice and since SWIY says it IS soluble in IPA, doing washes will make sure it doesn't just get sucked up into the freebase into the final conversion step.

 

[Jorkest]

I got my nicely grown "agave crystals" (they look like tiny 'lil clear Agave cactus's) out of the bestine.
I poured the other 12ml of solvent into a clean beaker to finish evaping & I put a small "seed" crystal in there to help attract the remaining spice.
They are incredible!!!
(The digital camera I borrowed has dead batteries in it :? , I'll need to go get some new ones before I can post some pics...)

I weighed them & the biggest one is .168mg!! I'll hate to break it up into doses!! (no I won't:twisted
The others weighed:
.112mg
.101mg
.079mg
.067mg
.056mg (going to test this one out...prolly tonight...we'll see)
.032mg
.026mg

A total of .641mg of solid-ass DMT!!!
HooYa!


Jokerst, did you ever finish with your extraction of Chaliponga leaf?
You where going to basify it, right?
So have you smoked any? As is, or in Changa?

I am quite curious about that one!!

Ya think one would be able to use Naptha to remove any "J" (hahaha) elements & still have the Bufo, 5-Meo & N,N-DMT's?
Only so it would (hopefully) reach some kind of solid crystal-like end result.

Or do you guys think that would remove so much of the "full spectrum" alkaloid mixture of Chaliponga, as to make it not really worth using Chali in the first place?

Just shoot'in the shit here...

WS

sounds sweet dude...cant wait to see..anyway

the chaliponga extraction went ok..but he didnt have any acetone so he had to resort to 'dried' IPA...but who knows how dry it really was...anyway..the resulting freebase was goupy and never dried...but one late night SWIM got the itch and smoked it all...along with some other crystals he managed to collect from multiple jars...he combined everything into one mimosa/chaliponga extracted mess..and blasted off a few times...

SWIM will have to try the chaliponga extraction again with some acetone instead..but there was quite a bit of goo

 

[narmz]

SWIM has been experimenting with IPA washes, and it works very well. First off it works well for washing the fumarates, it cleans them up substantially, changing them from a yellow/orange tinted powder to a very-near white powder after three IPA washes. SWIM thinks that the jungle fumarates may be soluble in IPA, and knows that limo is (it doesn't form a separate layer, but seems to settle toward the bottom). Anyhow, IPA also works very well for the freebase step, yielding circular crystal formations, that when scraped result in an off-white powder that doesn't liquify on you when it gets hot out (a problem SWIM was having when using acetone in the freebase step). If you are doing the freebase step using IPA, evap at room temp, just set it out for a 6 hours or so and it will be fine, but SWIM has had problems with the crystal formations when evapping either with higher temps or a constant airflow.

One thing SWIM really wants to find an easier way to do, is breaking up the fumarates. The smaller you chop it up, the more it can be cleaned by the IPA, but doing this by hand can be very tedious.

Anyhow, would love to hear others results using IPA for the freebase step, this is the only way SWIM has been able to get solid smokeables that aren't at all sticky from a limo tek, and also the only way he has gotten his expected yields from the freebase step.

Yup, IPA all the way. SWIM did 3 IPA washes on the fumerates. Then chopped them up real fine. What works good to chop them up is to use something glass and round like a pill bottle or small jar. Roll the glass object over the fumerates to flatten them out, scrape off the glass, then chop them up, then roll, scrape, and chop again. Should be close to powder. This works good after mixing with sodium carbonate as well. Roll it, scrape it, chop it to mix them when they are dry, then add water, and after it dries do it again. This should make sure all of it gets freebased and that SWIY will get the best yeild.

Anyway, as far as the IPA, SWIM's crystal formations looked similar to SWIY's. Nice and clear and beautiful. They started forming hexagons and other geometries cause there were so many. Scraped into a mostly white but tinted yellow powder without having to spread around and scrape up again. Maybe I will have to get him to post a pic sometime.

SWIM's yeild seems to be good too. Out of 114 grams of bark, the final freebase yeild seems close to at least a gram and a half. SWIM doesn't trust his shitty scale so he is not even going to try to weigh it. Stuff barely smells too. Definitely smells a little but not overwhelming like naphtha extracted stuff.

Perhaps the jungle does get washed in the IPA washes (be nice to know for sure though, could be just fats/oils) but SWIM would rather have beautiful crystals this way than having to resort to naphtha. Also he thinks it's a good idea to do IPA washes to the fumerates cause his still smelled like d-limonene even after filtering twice and since SWIY says it IS soluble in IPA, doing washes will make sure it doesn't just get sucked up into the freebase into the final conversion step.

Glad to see someone else experimenting with this, thanks for the tip, that's exactly the sort of method SWIM was looking for. SWIM thinks that if the fumarates are ground down small enough, and enough IPA washes are done, maybe 4 or 5, one would end up with white, pure freebase. SWIM feels the stuff produced this way is so much better than the peanut-butter style, which was conditionally solid depending upon the temperature, and consequently difficult to dose. SWIM was thinking that the yellow IPA left after the fumarate washes should be evapped, freebased, and smoked to test for activity, maybe the j-spice fumarates are soluble in IPA, who knows. Would probably be good to separate the fumaric acid somehow before smokin' though.

Yay this is fun!

 

[WSaged]

the chaliponga extraction went ok..but he didnt have any acetone so he had to resort to 'dried' IPA...but who knows how dry it really was...anyway..the resulting freebase was goupy and never dried...but one late night SWIM got the itch and smoked it all...along with some other crystals he managed to collect from multiple jars...he combined everything into one mimosa/chaliponga extracted mess..and blasted off a few times...

SWIM will have to try the chaliponga extraction again with some acetone instead..but there was quite a bit of goo

So when you tried it, was there any noticeable diff with the 5-MeO & Bufo content from the Chali?
Or any noticeable diff's?

I'll get some batteries & those pics tomorrow morning, I just hope I can get some good detail with it!!
I want to show these 'lil fellas off to somebody who cares!
(I tried showing 'em to my sister... :? nut'n...)

WS

 

[Jorkest]

if the camera has a micro setting..that will give you the best pictures...

also SWIM has no idea if there were any differences...he was quite drunk when he decided to smoke all the stuff..it was really sweet non the less...but he will have to try the extraction again...it may work a lot better with acetone

 

[logos2012]

Glad to see someone else experimenting with this, thanks for the tip, that's exactly the sort of method SWIM was looking for. SWIM thinks that if the fumarates are ground down small enough, and enough IPA washes are done, maybe 4 or 5, one would end up with white, pure freebase. SWIM feels the stuff produced this way is so much better than the peanut-butter style, which was conditionally solid depending upon the temperature, and consequently difficult to dose. SWIM was thinking that the yellow IPA left after the fumarate washes should be evapped, freebased, and smoked to test for activity, maybe the j-spice fumarates are soluble in IPA, who knows. Would probably be good to separate the fumaric acid somehow before smokin' though.

Yay this is fun!

Yeah SWIM actually didn't save his washes like he said he was cause he had to use the jar for filtering the IPA after freebasing and he didn't feel like going to the store and getting another jar. So maybe next time.

SWIM was also thinking that perhaps the j-spice doesn't convert to fumarate. If it did, wouldn't it be stuck to the fumaric acid and be kept in the bottom of the jar with the rest since fumaric acid isn't soluble in IPA? Perhaps it is still in it's freebase form, and all SWIY would need to do is evep the IPA wash, then smoke a bit to see if it is active to test if it is freebase.

 

[logos2012]

SWIM got some pics from SWIM's friend last night.