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Kash's A/B Mescaline Extraction

Migrated topic.
You can use all the tricks known by human being and beyong, but at the end the cactus material won't give more than what it has.
IME, 0.25% is not bad at all with regular (no named clone) cactus.
 
Tryptallmine said:
Thinking out loud here.

I've used this tek a few times and am a little underwhelmed by the yields. I used 2 x 1 foot fresh cuttings blended up along with 50g of dry powder.
The final yield was 0.25g of washed mescaline. I'm just wondering if there is something else that could be done to push more alkaloids into the solvent? I know when extracting DMT we use NaCl to help it migrate to the NPS. I used xylene as the solvent in this case.

Any thoughts from some more knowledgeable folk? I've kept the aqueous mix along with the solvent and plant material, so I can try a few things before I throw it out.
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Really just comes down to how much your cuttings have to offer, how much you pull into your NP solvent, and how much you pull from your NP solvent. Simple really. Following the tek works well, but it can't account for every situation. If you are doing a larger extraction, you need to do more pulls to get everything. This is a very efficient and cost effective tek, and one has not found one better. Most importantly though, it depends on the plant material you are working with. Just because you are using 2 ft of cuttings does not mean you will get a good yield, as the market is flooded with very weak pachanoi now days.
 
DansMaTete said:
You can use all the tricks known by human being and beyong, but at the end the cactus material won't give more than what it has.
IME, 0.25% is not bad at all with regular (no named clone) cactus.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I was simply thinking that there might have been a method I'm not aware of to push more mescaline out into the solvent.
I took another pass at it to be sure. Got another ~43mg out of it (after MEK Clean) but didn't pursue it any further. It's enough to finally get to try it - that part I'm looking forward to.
 
Hello,

Well, I had started this tek roughly one year ago, did 2-200ml xylene pulls then a third which I ended up leaving in my basic solution when I sort of lost interest and left it sitting for a year:oops:

So anyway I came back to check on the project and found the xylene that was left in the basic solution to be a cloudy yellow, whereas the previous pulls are clear yellow. No big deal, mixed them together for a total of 600ml.

Now this is where I added 100ml of H20 and 0.5ml of muriatic acid, measured ph5.6.

My concern is that the H20 layer looks clear. Is this normal or is it supposed to look milky?
 
DansMaTete said:
Clear is normal.
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Ok that good news for me then! thanks for the reply. I was anticipating having some precipitation and was quite concerned when there was none lol. Maybe some pics are in order if I get decent resulst
 
Keep shaking that sucker. Maybe the ph will rise and you need to add some more acid. Which also means more goodies :thumb_up:
 
Benzoic acid could be a very convenient way to salt the extract. Tested here.

Simply add benzoic acid powder to the toluene. It dissolves and crashes what appears to be mescaline benzoate. Add benzoic acid to the combined pulls until pH strips are acidic. Alternatively, simply add excess benzoic acid (e.g. ~3x the expected yield) since oversalting should not be an issue: solubility of the acid in toluene is pretty high (80mg/g).

You choose your own adventure, but benzoate salt is considered pretty safe. Sodium benzoate (used as a preservative I believe) had no issues when consumed at ~800mg/Kg.

Mescaline benzoate would be ~74% as potent by mass as mescaline HCl (assuming no hydrate formation).

Cheers 🙂

7/31 edit: Unfortunately,
mescaline benzoate is somewhat soluble in toluene/xylene so this approach doesn't really work. Relevant link here.
 
Is there a downside to a defatting step with several xylene pulls on the acidic extract before bassifying?

I did my first three Xylene pulls last night as normal, then I re-acidified with citric acid, did a toluene pull which was an interesting kinda clear wax at that point.
 
Gibson, generally a defatting step should not cause any problems. One has done defatting steps for cacti in the past but it has not produced different end results. It may create more emulsion doing a defatting step if anything. Generally emulsions mostly come down to the cacti used and the acid used. Citric acid tends to form more emulsions and acetic acid (vinegar) should be considered a better option. One could use hcl or any inorganic acid as well keeping the PH in the right area.

There are multiple things to consider to prevent emulsions. Mixing too hard or low temperature will cause problems also aside from the mixture composition.

If you have a waxy aqueous/nonpolar layer, that can be tough to separate. The only thing that can separate it is a hot water bath, time, or a centrifuge.

Hope this helps! :)
 
Thanks Kash! Appreciate it.

I got 845 mg from 437gm fresh TBM a couple weeks ago. I didn't wash the crystals that precipitated out of the xylene yet. They are tan just like in the tek.

I just ran out of clean solvent to wash with. Do I need to adjust the dose very much?
 
Sounds like a good yield, gratz!

A good solvent wash is nice to ensure purity. Xylene can tend to stick around for awhile which is obviously not good to ingest. But unless the extract is goopy or has salt contamination the dosage is basically the same. Increased purification mainly increases the long term storability, ease of handling, and appearance mainly. :)
 
Hey Kash. One recently performed your tek with what appears to be good success. One thing that was changed was reducing the NaOH concentration from 12.5 M, as recommended in your tek (50 g per 100 mL, Step 5) to 2 M (8 g per 100 mL), as its safer and still gets to pH 13-14. What is the rationale for such a high NaOH concentration?
 
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hello, im wondering if the hcl called for here, is hcl in a solution, what concentration. this may seem a stupid question, but this isnt specified. Is there any specific concentration thats most appropriate in finding something suitable?
 
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dolven said:
hello, im wondering if the hcl called for here, is hcl in a solution, what concentration. this may seem a stupid question, but this isnt specified. Is there any specific concentration thats most appropriate in finding something suitable?
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Looking here:
Kash said:
8.) To the toluene extract add 100ml H2O. Add 0.5ml concentrated HCl
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"Concentrated" refers to the product with ~37% HCl, w/v. If yours were weaker, you would probably need to add more, or get a product with the correct concentration if the excess water would otherwise spoil things, as is likely the case in this particular instance.
 
Howdy,

So I recently started me 1st failed attempt, using a lazy A/B with insights from Kash's A/B which consists of:

Step 1: Prepare the Cactus Material
- 200 grams of dried T.bridgesii cactus powder, I idiotically left the skin on thinking that when it dehydrated it would separate and not bond.. 1st mistake.

Step 2: Mix with Xylene and NaOH
- Put 1000 ml of xylene into a flask.
- Add the 200 grams of cactus powder to the xylene.
- Next, add 500 ml of 10%/50 grams NaOH solution
- Used a ultrasonic cleaner for 2hrs @ 50c

Step 3: Let it Settle Overnight
- This created a green blob on the bottom with the xylene on the top.

Step 4: Break the emulsion
- Used a blender.
- Used heat, moderate success.

Step 5: Xylene Removal
- Let the mixture settle overnight again.
- Filtered xylene with a vacuum filter, which was a very dark green going in and yellow coming out.

Step 6: Acid Extraction
- Used a magnetic stirrer for 10mins to blend the 300ml H20 + 20 drops HCI + Xylene
- Poured in to a separatory funnel.
- The layers didn't fully separate, so I also used a heat gun, which helped but the aqueous layer was cloudy.
Performed these steps 3 times.

Step 7: Clarify Water
- Put the cloudy aqueous solution on a hot plate @ 60c for 12hrs, which separated the layers better.

Step 8: Evaporate Water
- Evaporated the aqueous solution on a pyrex back dish for 20hrs with a fan.


Result = NO crystals. Nothing, zip, just some evaporated water residue.

Out of desperation I licked the dish, and it tasted acidic and kind of cactus... and it had a very minor effect which came up in 20mins; gave me an all body warm feeling, elevated heart rate and interrupted sleep. Also a feeling of being a little off center.

The cactus (T. bridgesii ‘Short Spine’ x T. pachanoi ‘Yowie’) was grown from seed for 5yrs by yours truly.

So by now it should be obvious I can't follow instructions, but where did I mess up apart from not removing the waxy layer from the cactus?

Thanks :)
 
Your mescaline is most likely still in alkaline cactus material.
200g of cactus powder to 500 ml of water means you have some form of wet alkaline paste, so you are not extracting from liquid as in Kash method.
For paste method, calcium hydroxide is more suitable.
Leaving waxy layer is fine, it does not matter.
I would recomment to wait 2 days to allow NaOH to lyse cactus matter better and repeat. Or add more water to made it more liquid.
Are you sure that your ultrasonic device mix it well enough?
 
doubledog said:
Your mescaline is most likely still in alkaline cactus material.
200g of cactus powder to 500 ml of water means you have some form of wet alkaline paste, so you are not extracting from liquid as in Kash method.
For paste method, calcium hydroxide is more suitable.
Leaving waxy layer is fine, it does not matter.
I would recomment to wait 2 days to allow NaOH to lyse cactus matter better and repeat. Or add more water to made it more liquid.
Are you sure that your ultrasonic device mix it well enough?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply.

I've already cleaned up, so the cactus material was disposed of and this post was for a possible next run when the cacti have grown enough.
40kHz ultrasonic is usually pretty good dissolving, plant material, it came out very dark green. Generally 30mins is equal to 1 day maceration. I can also use a 28kHz sonicator to really break up material.

Is my take away more H2O + NaOH, and less cacti?
 
Here's another option, since you're starting over:

Wiki - CIELO

[H3 id='Introduction']Introduction[/H3] CIELO stands for Crystals In Ethyl-acetate Lazily Over-the-counter. In this process, mescaline from cactus is precipitated in ethyl acetate as crystals (see Fig. 1). This technique (TEK) is specialized for...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
 
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