Ketamine - source for learning, spirituality or dark magic?

[RhythmSpring]

Anything ketamine can do Iboga can do better.

 

[Deltah]

iboga = psychedelic-DISSOCIATIVE ¡¡¡very much heard, but did not come into contact.
P.S
Raongi sat quietly in the dying light of the fire. He could feel his body flexing deep inside, like the curves of an eel swallowing. ..when this thought took shape in him, the head of an eel obediently appeared in the darkened space behind closed eyelids, but too big and bathed in bluish light.



Oh Mother-spirit of the first waterfall ...

Foremother of the first rivers ...

Show yourself, show yourself.



..in response to these voices, sparks filled the darkened space behind the slowly rotating image of the eel; the waves of light rose higher and higher, accompanied by some kind of growing roar.

.."This is the first maria." - This voice belongs to Mangi - the senior shaman of the village of Yarokamena. “She's strong. So strong. "

Mangi is silent as the visions disappear above them. They are on the edge of the Venturi - the real world, the blue zone. ..the noise of the falling rain outside is unrecognizable. The rustle of dry leaves mingles with the sound of distant bells. Their ringing sounds more like light than sound

..

 

[dragonrider]

Iboga is a very interesting psychedelic. It does share some dissociative characteristics with ketamine, or maybe i should say that ketamine shares some characteristics with ibogaine, but it is a lot more taxing physically and mentally.

It also causes arrhythmia in i believe something like 2% of the people using it, wich is probably it's biggest downside.

You could say that it is a double dissociative, because it also shares some effects with salvia, due to it's kappa agonism.

But iboga is definately a much more interesting substance than ketamine, wich i find a bit shallow.
Ketamine absolutely has a psychedelic side to it, but i would not call it a true psychedelic. It is more like a psychedelic edge, an aspect of the experience, imo. It essentially remains a sedative. Iboga is much more a true psychedelic.

Some people claim to have had iboga-like effects from high doses of DXM.
Now i don't want to discredit other people's experiences, but i personally don't find DXM very simmilar to iboga. I have never taken very large doses of DXM though, so maybe it becomes more simmilar when more is taken.

 

[Deltah]

dxm is somewhere on a par with tiletamine and does not deserve attention. Amanita pantherina is a wonderful friend and

great dissociative!

..

 

[PedroSanchez]

i dont get a spiritual experience from it either. for me it is just me and the information. i am alone, researching, like being in a complex, infinite library, but alone, as you would imagine it should be in a library, so you can concentrate properly on the information.

if the DMT entities were there i would have no chance of learning anything with ketamine. those entities can be too chaotic for learning ketamine level information. dont get me wrong, those entities are essential for learning what DMT has to teach, but they are different types of learning, with very different lessons.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I could thank ketamine for having ruined my life although it was merely a tool for fulfilling my then mission of self-destruction. Without achieving the absolute nadir that I did it's unlikely I would have met my wife and I cannot say whether or not I would have all the things for which I am most grateful today. Escaping with an intact bladder may have been luck on my part, or simply a result of the lack of fearsome dedication to the molecule that other, now more urologically challenged users may have displayed.

People's inability to control self-medication with this or any other substance is symptomatic of a deeper imbalance within the person concerned. The substances are merely tools and some tools are harder to control than others. A plunge router is trickier to use than a spanner, for example.

 

[PedroSanchez]

People's inability to control self-medication with this or any other substance is symptomatic of a deeper imbalance within the person concerned. The substances are merely tools and some tools are harder to control than others. A plunge router is trickier to use than a spanner, for example.

i have to agree with this. i was going to ignore the addiction conversation because i didnt want to push the wrong idea, but i have used ketamine for decades and never had problems with addiction. i have had problems with addiction with other substances though, but that was due to other issues happening in my life at that time. the drug being used was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. addiction is a byproduct.
i am not saying that means it is easy to not get addicted, it should definitely be treated with care. more that if you are suffering with addiction then you need to look past the addiction to solve it.

 

[dragonrider]

I could thank ketamine for having ruined my life although it was merely a tool for fulfilling my then mission of self-destruction. Without achieving the absolute nadir that I did it's unlikely I would have met my wife and I cannot say whether or not I would have all the things for which I am most grateful today. Escaping with an intact bladder may have been luck on my part, or simply a result of the lack of fearsome dedication to the molecule that other, now more urologically challenged users may have displayed.

People's inability to control self-medication with this or any other substance is symptomatic of a deeper imbalance within the person concerned. The substances are merely tools and some tools are harder to control than others. A plunge router is trickier to use than a spanner, for example.

Good to hear you managed to turn your life around without too much harm.

No drug could ever be worth a leaky bladder.

 

[ephedra]

There is like a resistance before the dissociative hole, I think that in part it is a resistance of the mind to not wanting to detach from its personality or the "image" of the personality. But it's interesting to be able to detach from that and go into those depths ... and detachment ...tought.

The last time I experimented on this, well, I think I really overdosed on it, but it was an experience of unprecedented detachment. I remember when I came back I told my friend something like that ketamine is a great drug to die or leave the world. It's like a pre-takeoff stadium. But it is quite interesting, all that feeling that the psyche detaches from the body and does not seem to return. It is truly a Buddhist experience. Although it is also something that you can consider quantum, can you be "hooked" in two places at the same time? It is like being with a cable in the body and with the other connected to a kind of numinous tunnel where the soul dissipates.

 

[Northerner]

I find ketamine by itself mediocre at best, an interesting headspace that forces one to simply accept whatever they feel. However after a long psychedelic and stimulant session, when all the words and worlds and fantasies have all been played out, when grasping for the threads of how to put it all back together, that's when ketamine comes into a right of its own. Within moments of hitting a medium to large dose all the nonsense starts to shatter. As I go deeper the visions and dreams are stripped from my mind and the spring clean begins in earnest. By the time it's done it's work and I'm pulling out of it all traces of anxiety and uncertainty are gone. All the everything just flushed away, a brand new and invigorated me.

I can understand how for people who suffer from depression and anxiety how that sort of therapy can be a relief and why it's being prescribed in some countries, though I have to deliberately mess myself up to get those therapeutic effects.

 

[UgraKarma]

Anything ketamine can do Iboga can do better.

Hell Yeah!

 

[mariri23]

in the techno scene there is a kind of blindness to ketamine addiction that i find troubling, like people would get worried at somebody addict to smack but doing ketamine every day is good harmless fun... and then people with fucked up bladders. definitely a very addictive substance and i feel that the community sometime miss information about the danger of it abuse. but i have to admit it is a fun substance, very good synergy with music, especially electronic one. mixed with lsd and 2cb it get really really wild. in high dosage it gives a death like feeling an quite often a fear that i thought was interesting to work upon, helped me to train a capacity to let things go that have some use in the dmt world. as for it hallucinogenic property although i had some very nice insight, i always thought that there is something off with this mindspace. i can really put the finger on it as it is more like an intuition. somewhere mckenna says that ketamine is a liar. i suspect there is some truth there, i see ketamine as a very synthetic , somewhat vampiric world that tells lies, interesting lies, but it always kept me cautious

 

[schmexus]

i wish it was εmphasisεd morε oftεn thε simplε, wεll-εstablishεd fact that kεtaminε's thεrapεutic potεntial is in connεction to micro-dosε infusion protocols. Thε micro-dosε infusion protocols havε thε advantagε of providing mεasurably highεr bεnεfits, whilε amεliorating almost εntirεly thε thrεε main risks of rεactional usε, namεly addiction, bladdεr damagε and dεlusional bεliεfs. Thε thεrapεutic bεnεfits arε substantial, as it rapidly rε-intεgratεs nεuronal nεtworks battεrεd by strεss.

 

[Dirty T]

Ketamine is damn addictive. It sure helps with the symptoms of depression, but oftentimes there is some message in the depression that needs to be addressed even though it may be extremely tough.

I plan on taking it recreationally again at some point, but make sure there is a limited supply.

I used PcP to treat treatment resistant depression for years. When PcP was outlawed it was replaced by the analogue Ketamine which is very similar and highly addictive. Mushrooms are just as effective as PCP for depression and DMT also works surprisingly well, Ive even used LSD as a treatment and it worked too. I know they are prescribing K injections and I'm sure they work (I qualify myself for this expensive therapy) but I choose to take the natural route.

Once again K is addictive. Very addictive.

 

[rOm]

Ketamine is damn addictive. It sure helps with the symptoms of depression, but oftentimes there is some message in the depression that needs to be addressed even though it may be extremely tough.

I plan on taking it recreationally again at some point, but make sure there is a limited supply.

I used PcP to treat treatment resistant depression for years. When PcP was outlawed it was replaced by the analogue Ketamine which is very similar and highly addictive. Mushrooms are just as effective as PCP for depression and DMT also works surprisingly well, Ive even used LSD as a treatment and it worked too. I know they are prescribing K injections and I'm sure they work (I qualify myself for this expensive therapy) but I choose to take the natural route.

Once again K is addictive. Very addictive.

Do you find PCP less addictive?
yes I have had issues compulsive doing ket.
I tend to favor 3 MeO PCP as far as Arylcyclohexylamines goes. Never had actual PCP.

 

[Dirty T]

Ketamine is damn addictive. It sure helps with the symptoms of depression, but oftentimes there is some message in the depression that needs to be addressed even though it may be extremely tough.

I plan on taking it recreationally again at some point, but make sure there is a limited supply.

I used PcP to treat treatment resistant depression for years. When PcP was outlawed it was replaced by the analogue Ketamine which is very similar and highly addictive. Mushrooms are just as effective as PCP for depression and DMT also works surprisingly well, Ive even used LSD as a treatment and it worked too. I know they are prescribing K injections and I'm sure they work (I qualify myself for this expensive therapy) but I choose to take the natural route.

Once again K is addictive. Very addictive.

Do you find PCP less addictive?
yes I have had issues compulsive doing ket.
I tend to favor 3 MeO PCP as far as Arylcyclohexylamines goes. Never had actual PCP.

I don't find one any less addictive than the other in my own experience. They are very similar compounds so it's not surprising they have similar side effects such as addiction.

 

[Guda]

I'm very ignorant about dissociative drugs and their effects, How much the dissociative term as a class, has do to with the feeling of being outside your body, like you're a brain floating without legs or something? i always have this impression when i think about ketamine, how much truth has in this?

How can it help it with depression, makes you uninhibited like benzos? giving you the "i don't care" type of feeling or has something to do with feeling things in another perspective more like psychedelics?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

They're called dissociative drugs because they block the transfer of sensory information into the brain. The hallucinogenic effects occur partly because the brain starts making stuff up to compensate for the lack of input. That's a gross over-simplification, of course.

Part of the antidepressant effect from dissociatives occurs through the stimulation of axonal dendrite growth - the brain grows new connections. One way of seeing this might be that it makes new possibilities apparent, thereby offering a route around the entrenched patterns of thought and behaviour that can make depressive states so intractable.

I'll admit here, I'd need to go over the literate again before being able to go into more depth on this one. There are pointers toward this type of information on the forum if you search for them. It can be pretty tricky working out what terms to use in order to optimise that search, especially if English isn't your first language. The technical nature of the matter compounds the challenge.

 

[M0K0]

Having know experienced ketamine in higher doses,
swim opinion on ketamine would be a two edged sword.
Its a realy fun drug in lower doses and can get quite weird if is taken over longer periods of time, so if you do bumps all night you wont k-hole anymore but in a way get more smashed.
the disasotive effects on high doeses are quite powerfull for finding hidden bad treads about yourself etc.
but at the same time swim is like drunk so he does not realy care about it.
When it comes to "spritiual" insight it has never done anything to swim like tryptamines.
Safety: Taking ketamine regularly will cause bladder syndrome.
It is very addictive.

Love is out

 

[dragonrider]

They're called dissociative drugs because they block the transfer of sensory information into the brain. The hallucinogenic effects occur partly because the brain starts making stuff up to compensate for the lack of input. That's a gross over-simplification, of course.

Part of the antidepressant effect from dissociatives occurs through the stimulation of axonal dendrite growth - the brain grows new connections. One way of seeing this might be that it makes new possibilities apparent, thereby offering a route around the entrenched patterns of thought and behaviour that can make depressive states so intractable.

I'll admit here, I'd need to go over the literate again before being able to go into more depth on this one. There are pointers toward this type of information on the forum if you search for them. It can be pretty tricky working out what terms to use in order to optimise that search, especially if English isn't your first language. The technical nature of the matter compounds the challenge.

I guess that when you are a regular user, this effect decreases with greater tolerance?

So that would make it a risky drug to self-medicate with. Because if you'd overdo it, you could render it useless and then you're worse off than when you started taking it.