Knowing When It's Time

[Lawliet]

Hello Everybody,

I've known about the spice for a little while now, but it was not until recently that I became very interested in trying it. Because of all the talk concerning its intensity, and its purported release upon death, I was hesitant and decided that it should be pursued later. At one point, my friend made some Yopo snuff; I tried it, but it wasn't more significant than a solid mushroom experience - and of course, there was a lot more vomiting. I assume this is because its primary active ingredients seem to be bufotenine, and to some degree 5-MeO, with less straight-up DMT action.

Anyhow, I've spent the last few days doing nothing but reading DMT subject matter - Erowid reports, Extraction methods, Nexus topics, etc. I would like to extract some of my own DMT from MHWB once I return for the upcoming school year. However, I have a few questions - I want to know if you guys think I can handle it.

My main concern is my relationship with Salvia D. I know that many people find it unpleasant. I will tell you that all of my Salvia experiences have been absolute hell, and that each trip is more or less the exact same thing. Each time, I encounter the same creatures, and I am turned into one of them. I am forced to endure their world, which seems a thousand times worse than any nightmare, without being able to move or speak coherent syllables.

I am wondering if I should try smoked DMT while I am still on these terms with Salvia. I realize they work on completely different receptors. The thought has crossed my mind that my Salvia experiences might be so hellish because I am not ready for full ego dissolution. Perhaps I find the transformation hellish because I am trying to resist it. Whenever the Salvia beings squeeze me through tunnels or trap me on giant wheels, I try to resist, forgetting that it's all in my mind. Do you folks think that I can have a good experience with DMT, or do you think it's necessary for me to overcome my fear of Salvia first?

Also, my past psychedelic experience includes 3 breakthrough (and a few non-breakthrough) Salvia trips, 5 mushroom trips (no complete ego dissolution, although I've taken up to an eighth oz; only deep introspection, some visuals, extremely rapid thought, and extreme feelings of universal connectedness), an ego-death experience with 2C-B (believe it or not - I can find no other word for it than ego-death), two experiences with Yopo (intense CEV visions where I spoke to Quetzalcoatl), and some really bizarre experiences with weed involving Open Eye Hallucinations and extreme terror. Should I have an ego-death experience with shrooms or another tryptamine before trying DMT?

Is there anything else I'm not considering? Any other way I can make sure I'm able to give in to DMT and let it do its thing? I realize I can never truly be prepared, but I don't want to be torn in half because I couldn't give up my ego.

Thanks a bunch,

Lawliet

 

[endlessness]

Your experience with salvia doesnt necessarily tell you much about how its gonna be with dmt.. SWIM has tried (smoked) salvia a few times and found it quite unpleasant, but has a good relationship with dmt.

It is true that with any psychedelic, resisting the trip can lead to very negative experiences, but at least for SWIM and others around him, it seems that chances of having bad experience with salvia is much higher than with dmt..

Start small, and work your way up with the dosage (and with the extraction size), and this way you can feel if its not a substance for you, before being over your head with it.

good luck and tell us how it went

 

[obliguhl]

Have you tried chewing the Salvia Leafes? It's never been a "pleasant" experience for me, but still interesting....you should have this mindset - to accept the worst without fear, because that's the waters you want to swim in.

Besides, my friend from peru thinks that DMT and Salvia are nothing alike. I guess DMT can be dark, but it's another kind of dark. Salvia tends to be "depressing dark" and my friend hasn't experienced this on DMT. The latter was always more or less euphoric, colorful and fascinating.

It'S good to deal with present fears first, but I would only do it if I'd think that my Salvia experiences would contribute to a negative, destabilizing mindset while smoking the spice. My friend found that it'S a waste to smoke with a bad set and setting - you just won't go as far.

 

[hexagonomicon]

my past psychedelic experience includes 3 breakthrough Salvia trips, 5 mushroom trips, an ego-death experience with 2C-B, two experiences with Yopo, and some really bizarre experiences with weed involving Open Eye Hallucinations and extreme terror.

IMHO you don't have enough experience to be experimenting with DMT. You've got barely a dozen trips under your belt and that's between quite a number of exotic psychedelics. What you should do first is learn to cultivate your own mushrooms. Develop a relationship with the mushroom spirit through this process. It is a wonderful teacher. Experiment with high doses in silent darkness. And after you've been through heaven and hell a few times, then you will probably be ready to try out the even more bizarrly fucked up realms of DMT.

Mushrooms are just a lot safer and friendlier than DMT. Plus growing shrooms is WAY more fun than extracting DMT!

 

[vegantoker]

IMHO you don't have enough experience to be experimenting with DMT.

I disagree completely. I only took mushrooms once to little effect, crappy Morning glory seeds and some bunk E before DMT.
Basically I had NO real experience before DMT but I knew I was ready. I've loved every trip so far and so has my girlfriend who has even less experience than I do.

If you think your ready then your ready. It sounds stupid but it's true. When you are ready it's way better than anyone can ever tell you. You wont regret it.

 

[hexagonomicon]

vegantoker >> Well I'm glad that it worked out for you, but I can't honestly recommend that to somebody with less than a dozen trips experience.

I think that there is a lot of hype about DMT, all of which is true of course, but people don't often know what they're getting into. They may have had a few cool trips and become typically obsessed with psychedelics and they hear about this crazy stuff, DMT, that lets you talk to aliens. And of course who wouldn't want to try it?

But the truth is, IME, that DMT is an UBER fucked up drug and everytime I pick the stuff up I feel like I'm holding a loaded gun and I don't know who's going to get hurt next.

If you're relatively new to psychedelics, believe me, you can contact the aliens with high doses of shrooms in silent darkness. It can be just as crazy, but while the mushroom spirit is a trickster I don't have as severe mistrust of it as I do the DMT-Force. IME the mushroom is a clever and wise teacher and should be taken as a guide for quite a while before one begins to fuck around with all these hyped up and "exotic" psychedelics, even LSD.

 

[obliguhl]

I mistrust shrooms and trust DMT. Now what? I think the mindstate is most important.

 

[Trinity]

vegantoker >> Well I'm glad that it worked out for you, but I can't honestly recommend that to somebody with less than a dozen trips experience.

I think that there is a lot of hype about DMT, all of which is true of course, but people don't often know what they're getting into. They may have had a few cool trips and become typically obsessed with psychedelics and they hear about this crazy stuff, DMT, that lets you talk to aliens. And of course who wouldn't want to try it?

But the truth is, IME, that DMT is an UBER fucked up drug and everytime I pick the stuff up I feel like I'm holding a loaded gun and I don't know who's going to get hurt next.

If you're relatively new to psychedelics, believe me, you can contact the aliens with high doses of shrooms in silent darkness. It can be just as crazy, but while the mushroom spirit is a trickster I don't have as severe mistrust of it as I do the DMT-Force. IME the mushroom is a clever and wise teacher and should be taken as a guide for quite a while before one begins to fuck around with all these hyped up and "exotic" psychedelics, even LSD.

me n you are on the EXACT same page.....the shrooms are a tricky mutha f*cka....they WILL bring u to your knees if they have to....make no mistake about that......i've been hi dosing shrooms for maybe 8 years or so and like hexagonomicon u can have alien contact in the hi dose trip in silence

i love the shroom even though they trick and mess with me...this is how they teach and in the end they get there point across......

swims just started dmt now and says shrooms were excellent training and it seems pretty natural to progress here ,he has found sub break through doses are very similar if not the same as hi dose shroom trips peaks

some shroom trips can seriously be very beautiful for they can be pure love when they wanna be

 

[hexagonomicon]

I mistrust shrooms and trust DMT. Now what? I think the mindstate is most important.

I just get the feeling that we're using technology of which we haven't fully comprehended the consequences/implications.

This recent proliferation of DMT is kinda like if common people just started building their own space rockets in their garages and told you "yeah, hop on in! Don't worry, it's safe and you'll meet aliens!"

We are venturing into dark, largely unexplored territory and we don't really know what is there. People have come back with fantastic tales of exotic riches and now there's a gold rush. But what about the beings who inhabit these realms? They may be amused by an occasional visitor or two, but how are they going to feel about all this increased traffic? Do they want all these disoriented, confused, and obviously clueless humans to just come trampling in and out of their territory?

I just get the feeling that DMT is letting us open doors which we don't necessarily have permission to open. You don't want a two year old busting into the cockpit, and you don't need dumb humans busting in unannounced on some sort of cosmic engine room without permission.

People seem to act like since DMT is physically safe that is is altogether safe, and it's not. Sorry. And I can't recommend that a noob dick around with the stuff, even if they do start off slow, because the difference between threshold doses and breakthrough doses is a quantum leap!

 

[BoKuDen]

"But what about the beings who inhabit these realms? They may be amused by an occasional visitor or two, but how are they going to feel about all this increased traffic? Do they want all these disoriented, confused, and obviously clueless humans to just come trampling in and out of their territory? and you don't need dumb humans busting in unannounced on some sort of cosmic engine room without permission."

Beings inhabiting what realms exactly?
Your own Mind-space is all you breakthrough into...
I think maybe you take these "entities" too seriously hex.

"but how are they going to feel about all this increased traffic?"
Just curious how you feel about the S.H.E.?
Are we seriously invading anyone's territory other than our own minds? I think not.

To Lawliet, DMT is the most grande parade being thrown for you, the most beautiful "Welcome Home" you could ever receive from yourself. Go forward with a healthy humble and honest respect.

 

[hexagonomicon]

Your own Mind-space is all you breakthrough into...

well I don't know about you, but there are some pretty fucked up parts of my mindspace... and most people may be terrified at what they find in their own.

Just curious how you feel about the S.H.E.?
Are we seriously invading anyone's territory other than our own minds? I think not.

I'm excited about the S.H.E. I think it's a great effort at real exploration. I just think we need to acknowledge that we're going into unexplored territory and WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WILL FIND. I know that if aliens wanted to visit us, I'd prefer that they did it in a way that didn't cause mass panic, or harm anyone. And so if there is a possibility that we are actually making contact, we should do it politely.

And even if it is "all in your own mind" that doesn't mean there isn't danger. Haven't you ever crossed the wrong wires in some appliance before?

If psychedelics have taught me anything it's that what happens in the realm of the mind is not inconsequential.

 

[BoKuDen]

Thanks for the reply hexagonomicon.
I agree completely that some people may not be ready to face their own Mind-space.
Whether it is actual entities or imagined; for me, the effects are the same since the spice experience is so Realistic. But in my conclusions I've rationalized that the entities aren't real creatures in a separate space/dimension that we can consistently contact.

BUT I COULD BE Completely WRONG, so I accept your reasoning that "we need to acknowledge that we're going into unexplored territory and WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WILL FIND. I know that if aliens wanted to visit us, I'd prefer that they did it in a way that didn't cause mass panic, or harm anyone. And so if there is a possibility that we are actually making contact, we should do it politely."

"And even if it is "all in your own mind" that doesn't mean there isn't danger. Haven't you ever crossed the wrong wires in some appliance before?"

"If psychedelics have taught me anything it's that what happens in the realm of the mind is not inconsequential."

I didnt mean to attack your beliefs at all either, I just wanted some insight on your perspective of the entities.

 

[BoKuDen]

I'm excited about the S.H.E. I think it's a great effort at real exploration.

At first I was just excited, now I'm excited and extremely curious. I hope we are all well received.

 

[Phlux-]

salvia freaks me right out - wont smoke it in the forseeable future.
spice is nice and 100% different - they take u in different directions in different ways.
start small with spice and build a solid relationship with it.
it has so much to share.

 

[Leap]

Hexagon, DMT was my first psychedelic. I've never had a truly bad experience with it. So perhaps you should deal with your own issues with the spice before giving someone advice.

1. Salvia is a different animal altogether. One time I thought I was a door knob. The next, a packaged toy waiting to be bought. And the last, I don't know, I thought I heard cheering.

2. With DMT, it's most important to be curious about the experience. Feel like you're dead? Be excited. Feel alienated in your surroundings of hyperspace? Be excited.

Remind yourself that nothing can hurt you. If you have any issues from your past that still haunt you to this day, deal with them first.

Now, Hexagon, not only is your language and your view on DMT completely distasteful, but it's obvious that you're putting yourself in that viewpoint. If that's how you feel when you do DMT, then OF COURSE it's like holding a gun. Come on, take care of your own mental state before spouting off insanity. And this "proliferation" of DMT is hilarious.. it's no more prolific than it was 30 years ago.

 

[kungpow]

Hexagon, DMT was my first psychedelic. I've never had a truly bad experience with it. So perhaps you should deal with your own issues with the spice before giving someone advice.

1. Salvia is a different animal altogether. One time I thought I was a door knob. The next, a packaged toy waiting to be bought. And the last, I don't know, I thought I heard cheering.

2. With DMT, it's most important to be curious about the experience. Feel like you're dead? Be excited. Feel alienated in your surroundings of hyperspace? Be excited.

Remind yourself that nothing can hurt you. If you have any issues from your past that still haunt you to this day, deal with them first.

Now, Hexagon, not only is your language and your view on DMT completely distasteful, but it's obvious that you're putting yourself in that viewpoint. If that's how you feel when you do DMT, then OF COURSE it's like holding a gun. Come on, take care of your own mental state before spouting off insanity. And this "proliferation" of DMT is hilarious.. it's no more prolific than it was 30 years ago.

Holy shit I can't believe your salvia experience. I had an experience exactly like that. I was in a toy box on the shelf in a store. There was a family with a child that wanted to buy me, but they didn't have enough money. The little boy was sad and didn't understand why he could not get the toy that he really wanted.

I have always explained this experience to people before and it seemed like they never believed me. It was a weird experience.

I myself cannot stand salvia. It feels bad and it is also really confusing for me. I don't get any enjoyment or knowledge from taking salvia.

But DMT is a completely different story. I have never had anything bad with DMT. I might see some weird things, but I don't get that bad feeling from it. It seems that DMT just lets me relax and take the experience for what it is. All I know is that I feel utterly fantastic every time I do DMT. These are all sub-breakthrough doses though. I have not made it to the breakthrough yet mostly due to respect for the chemical. I always go for it, but then after my second hit I say I don't need anymore because I am already tripping balls and can barely even tell I have a pipe in my hand. I know that I need to do it soon, but I can just never bring myself to do it. I am sure the time will come where I am completely ready to take in the full experience.

 

[cellux]

I can definitely relate to what hexagonomicon is saying... if you have such thoughts then nothing will relieve you from this but a complete understanding of why this problem is not a problem. like an experience where you understand that nobody will get "permission" without God's intent. so even if "a two-year old busts into the cockpit", that's part of God's plan and in the end it will turn out just fine.

I once had an experience related to the archetypes in the Tarot card, where it turned out that the final step of world-salvation can be carried out only by the Fool. All the other characters - while may be very wise - are too entrenched in their own particular way of being. This groundedness gives them power to act in the world (help it towards fulfilment), but at the same time it's also a weakness: makes it impossible for them to overcome duality. The Fool, on the other hand - while keeping nothing, and looked down by others in worldly existence - has a secret knowledge which wakes up and flourishes when the right moment comes. When the end approaches, the other archetypes may get confused. That's when the Fool takes over. And the others "shit their pants" when they see this, because they don't trust the Fool at all (two-year old busting into the cockpit). And the Fool then starts to operate and does things which he himself does not understand, but it works, and hip and yep and cheech and chong, the world is saved.