Kratom for vasoconstriction

[pinkoyd]

As I get older (approaching my 6th decade :shock: , how is that possible??) I notice increasing problems with vasoconstriction when doing psychedelics, especially phenethylamines. My feet get cold and are sometimes quite painful, my 'boys' shrink up like I jumped into an icy river. Once on a high dose cactus trip my skin felt cool and rubbery to the point where my wife got concerned about it. Usually I try to counteract all this with a warm shower or a soak in the hot tub. Sometimes it's not so noticeable, at others it can be quite distracting especially when doing a combo, i.e. MDA or MDMA and LSD. Lately with MDxx's I notice urinary retention too, which can get annoyingly painful late in the trip. A full bladder that I can't release sucks when the crystal palace rainbows are calling me to play.

I've tried l-arginine and Ginkgo which I found had barely noticeable effects, but recently on a whim I pre-dosed some Bali kratom before an MDA/2C-B session and all I can say is wow! I was pleasantly surprised, even amazed (!), at how effective it was. My feet stayed nice and warm with no need to do the shower/hot tub thing, and my genitals stayed, um, full size as well. To cap things off I was able to pee freely too!
The kratom wore off before the trip was done and I did have to re-dose but the difference it made was remarkable. I didn't feel that the kratom dulled the effects of the psychs or colored the experience in any way other than providing a nice background glow.

How much one can extrapolate from a single experience remains an open question but I intend to do further trials to see if it is a consistent effect. I certainly hope it is, and I can see it becoming a regular part of my practice.

I used eight 00 caps of Bali kratom for a total of about 4800 mg and I weigh 109kg so that comes to about 44mg/kg for those who are interested, and the MDA was 80 mg initially with a 25 mg bump at the three hour mark and then 30 mg 2C-B about two and a half hours after that.

 

[skoobysnax]

U might want some saw palmetto. The urine thing might be enlarged prostate. I'm closing in on 55 and i take it.

 

[King Tryptamine]

Don't quote me on this but I believe the mitragynine in kratom functions as a beta 2 adrenergic agonist. Drugs belonging to this class have robust vasodilatory effects in blood vessels supplying skeletal and smooth muscles. Other examples apart from mitragynine include salbutamol used in asthma inhalers and guanabenz used in the treatment for hypertension, give them a look when you get the chance. Kratom also functions as a mu-opioid receptor agonist like morphine which may also help explain the hypotensive effects.

It really isn't necessary to take kratom. Any medical expert will tell you partaking in regular exercise, particularly aerobic will dwarf the benefits you get by taking kratom both in the short and long term. Might also help out to get yourself a blood pressure machine so you can monitor yourself properly when you do decide to get high on these drugs.

 

[Sunnyside]

It really isn't necessary to take kratom. Any medical expert will tell you partaking in regular exercise, particularly aerobic will dwarf the benefits you get by taking kratom both in the short and long term.

I know this is true wisdom.
I'm not a jock, not an athlete by any stretch of the imagination.
But I'm pretty far from sedentary, too.
For example, in the 8 days just ended, I paddled on a river for about 4 hours one morning, had 2 sessions on a rock gym wall totaling 3 and a half hours, and hiked desert mountain trails a total of 35 miles (about 13 hours total).
And I share at least one aspect of the problem(s) described in the original post - when I've ingested MDxx, I've experienced what he describes as urine retention. For me, that means my bladder feels full, but I just can't pee. Very uncomfortable. In the last 6 or 7 years, I was first exposed to MDxx, have explored with it maybe a dozen times, at most, and essentially every time I indulged, I had problems peeing.
I’m in my mid-60s, 5-7, 170 pounds. My physician annually gives me a rectal exam and checks my prostate. It is not enlarged. My PSA is below .8.

So when I read this OP, it really got my attention. I had been eyeballing kratom in a general sense, mainly from curiosity, and because a friend said it eased his transition to being alcohol-free.
And when I read this post a couple of times, I decided it is time.
I procured some Red Bali, and one morning, I gulped down 6 grams of it in my coffee.
My first exposure to kratom gave me a feeling of light sedation, maybe drowsiness, for much of the day. I was fully functional, carried on with no problems hardly noticing much, other than that gentle drowsiness.

Ok, at least I know the kratom by itself doesn’t cause adverse reaction, so I can proceed.

2 days ago, again in the morning, I gulped down another 6 g of kratom in my coffee, and after breaking my fast I went for my hike. Around 9:30am, I swallowed my capsule of MDMA, and hiked on back home.

Peeing was no issue at first, but I could sense things tightening up, so to speak. And by 12:30, I knew I wanted to try another dose of kratom.

It took about an hour, give or take, but soon I was peeing freely again.

The relief was real and remarkable. Soon I was peeing freely again (I’m sure if you’ve read this far, you must be very happy for me!).
My bladder would finally feel empty.
By this time, I’m on the downslope of the E. But still. From my perspective, the kratom clearly resolved the issue for me.

It was just so nice to be able to relax and enjoy the explorations.

Also, with this newfound peace, I was able to enjoy some medium doses of vaporized DMT. About 20 mg, 3 times.
The synergy was just perfect.
I softly went into dream state, joy and comfort and beauty, exquisite dreamy visuals.
I'm not good at describing, but such a wonderful experience. Certainly, it was near the top of the list of my DMT experiences.
I can't stress enough how silky smooth the come-up was, and into a barely (if that) conscious dream-trance I went.
Maybe it was where I was on the downslope with the E, maybe the kratom, maybe the combo. But I look forward to that sometime.

And that just would not have happened with that bladder discomfort.

Anyway. I know this is long-winded.

On a very very small sample size, I have to endorse the original post, for what that’s worth.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Does Aspirin work for you? I use it with LSA and it helps a lot. Just to remember you can't take it everyday

 

[King Tryptamine]

Aspirin won't help with the acute vasoconstrictive effects of these compounds but it might help reduce the risk of a heart attack or stroke occurring acting as a blood thinner. These risks are low and unheard of for drugs such as LSD so I don't believe its really necessary here, but if someone has a history of cardiovascular problems and that person is also taking various drug combinations at an old age, I don't see why it can't help in this case.

As for the urinary retention, perhaps staying a little more hydrated and putting oneself on 3-4 cups of coffee per day might help loosen up the bladder? ime anyway. Just a disclaimer though aspirin isn't without its side-effects so its best to speak to an actual doctor beforehand rather than getting advice from a bunch of people on a drug forum.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Aspirin won't help with the acute vasoconstrictive effects of these compounds but it might help reduce the risk of a heart attack or stroke occurring acting as a blood thinner.

At least with LSA the effect is very noticable. Haven't had the need to take it with other tryptamines, so don't know if it's different. It's known to help with restless legs syndrome, so my guess is that the same mechanism applies here, whatever it is. I get the restless legs sometimes and it does provide relief there. However, there is a risk of peptic ulcer with repeated use, so I use it very sparingly.

I'm surprised if the effect is subjective, but anyway it would be interesting to hear.

 

[pinkoyd]

It really isn't necessary to take kratom. Any medical expert will tell you partaking in regular exercise, particularly aerobic will dwarf the benefits you get by taking kratom both in the short and long term.

It's not really necessary to take MDMA either. Or LSD. Or DMT. But I do. That's why I participate in this forum. I'm in the medical field and I'm all for diet and exercise, and like our friend Sunnyside I keep myself in reasonable shape. Vasoconstriction and urine retention are both known side effects of phenethylamines, especially MDxx's. I find that these side effects are increasingly noticeable as I age, and can detract from the experience I am attempting to have at the time. I happened to find something that counteracts those effects for me and elected to report it here. I'm not a regular kratom user and I wasn't advocating for it. It does seem to be a useful tool to use in this specific circumstance, at least for me.

Please excuse me if this seemed unnecessarily snarky.

Should I have even posted this? Dunno. That comment just rubbed me the wrong way and I'll take this down if need be.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

It really isn't necessary to take kratom. Any medical expert will tell you partaking in regular exercise, particularly aerobic will dwarf the benefits you get by taking kratom both in the short and long term.

It's not really necessary to take MDMA either. Or LSD. Or DMT. But I do. That's why I participate in this forum. I'm in the medical field and I'm all for diet and exercise, and like our friend Sunnyside I keep myself in reasonable shape. Vasoconstriction and urine retention are both known side effects of phenethylamines, especially with MDxx's. I find that they are increasingly noticeable as I age, and can detract from the experience I am attempting to have at the time. I happened to find something that counteracts those effects for me and elected to report it here. I'm not a regular kratom user and I wasn't advocating for it. It does seem to be a useful tool to use in this specific circumstance, at least for me.

Please excuse me if this seemed unnecessarily snarky.

Should I have even posted this? Dunno. That comment just rubbed me the wrong way and I'll take this down if need be.

Your response is fine by me, pinkoyd. As I see it, KT was referring to vasoconstriction as a whole rather than the urinary retention effect, which is quite specific.

Perhaps next a "Urinary Retention thread for Geriatric Ravers"? - count me in

 

[King Tryptamine]

First off I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot here but all I did was suggest another remedy on the subject of vasoconstriction. A method which I believe is a better first-line treatment for the circulatory problems that arise from consuming psychostimulants, empathogens and psychedelics which is why I brought it up in the way that I did.

Nowhere did I mention kratom was an ineffective tool or backlash at you for bringing up such a remedy nor did I suggest you advocated for kratoms use, so I really don't understand where all this offense is coming from. Anyway I apologize for the comment and won't comment anymore.

 

[tango]

Psychedelics and Kratom go very well together. My own relationship to the body/mind complex is rather unusual, and I've made a thread about it, a long one too.

Regarding the kratom/pshychedelic synergy: kratom, in my experience, imparts a fluid like quality to the tissue, such that it can flow, and rearrange itself, while the phsychedelic component of the mix directs this rewiring.

 

[starway7]

I think 98 percent [dark chocolate] works better to prevent Vasoconstriction ..and it tastes good to!

 

[null24]

I’ve made my feelings about Keaton known, and all I’ll say is that this doesn’t sound like the worst application of it in the world.

What this thread piques my interest in are aging related concerns around taking psychedelics. I’ma decade at least behind OP but even mushies can be tougher on my body than they used to be, let alone LSD or MDMA. Frankly I won’t mess with mdma out of fear of repercussions I don’t want. As we age, everything becomes a little more challenging and being able to safely enjoy these things until we are wrinkled beyond recognition is a worthwhile thing to pursue an understanding of. Any advice, science and experience in that area is welcome.

 

[starway7]

Age should not cause any problems..as long as you feel good...and the desire to explore..

i would rather take a dmt trip once or twice a month...than guzzle down the governments leagle poison alcohol every night!

Even LSDs inventer Albert Hoffman lived to be very old and probibly took many many trips in his life..

The late Timothy Learys last regrets during his last weeks of life were...
he wished he had taken more LSD trips...and made love more!:thumb_up:

Tims attitude was very positive up to his last breath...

He showed a happy courage during his last days ...he looked forward to his end as the ultimate trip!

Age dont mean much ..as long as you are still healthy...enjoy life!









Is dark chocolate good for blood circulation?
Image result for science and dark chocolate proven to prevent vasoconstriction
Researchers say the polyphenols in dark chocolate can help the body form more nitric oxide, a compound that causes blood vessels to dilate and blood to flow more easily.Jul 2, 2014

 

[pinkoyd]

I think 98 percent [dark chocolate] works better to prevent Vasoconstriction ..and it tastes good to!

Any dosage suggestions?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I think 98 percent [dark chocolate] works better to prevent Vasoconstriction ..and it tastes good to!

Any dosage suggestions?

I get a 100+ % chocolate with added ground cacao nibs and a square or two of that is at least highly enjoyable even if I can't vouch for any specific vasodilatory effect, having not combined it with LSA or mescaline (yet...)