Legitimizing sacramental trichocereus use

[nicechrisman]

So I know of a couple "churches" that have formed to legitimize the use of ayahuasca that have gained a certain level of legal standing in the US and other countries. Also the NAC has managed to legitimize the use of peyote for it's members.

What about a group to legitimize the appropriate sacramental use of mescaline cacti (even for white folks like me)? I wonder if such work is being done anywhere? If not, I would be interested in instigating such a thing.

Fortunately, so far the US government at least has kinda turned a blind eye to the distribution of trichocereus. I wonder how long this will continue though, in light of the fact that so many youngters are using it as a "party drug" these days.

 

[curious1]

The less attention drawn to Trich use the better.

 

[mew]

theoretically it would be best to share entheogens with everyone, practically speaking let them search for it on thier own and be dedicated to the path rather than church services where people are introduced to a sacrament they were ignorant of

 

[obliguhl]

They are already very legit. Just not for those people who aren't legit themselves.

I don't think it would work. The NAC is a compromise and it took a several decade long legal fight to get an excemption from the law. And the only reason this was possible is the fact that peyote religion is very real among certain groups such as the navaho. It isn't among folks living inside western culture.

 

[nicechrisman]

The less attention drawn to Trich use the better.

On the one hand, I feel what you are saying for sure. I think this is the best course for the time being. On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that people should be able to get together in a legally sanctioned environment and be able to enjoy these gifts with others who feel the same.

Bet yeah, for sure, no reason to raise a stink right now, as it so far seems to be a "out of sight, out of mind" issue. I was just thinking of possibilities if they do decide to crack down.

I can't help but wonder about the DEA and their motives and stuff. With all this info on the interwebs- people able to order cacti, ayahuasca, supplies and teks to make DMT, spores for magic mushrooms- they've got to know about it and that it is going on. It's not like it's a big secret. You can go on youtube and find at least several online tutorials of how to prepare cacti for consumption.

Just sharing some thoughts I've been having.

 

[cave paintings]

In response to your above post regarding the DEA's motives... perhaps they have bigger fish to fry for now? I can think of a number of things but I know cartel issues as well as large-scale distribution of "harder" drugs (crack, heroin, meth) might be up there. No doubt however if the public eye were to shift this way a little too much I'm sure some of these plants may be cracked down upon. They just don't get distributed quite like other drugs like mdma or weed and they aren't implicated in so much crime as some of the more habit-forming drugs.

 

[pau]

Maybe not posing this observation with the right words, but it's always struck me as weird that the government is essentially restricting people from joining/participapting in a recognized religion. How would the Supreme Court rule on that one!? Or have they already done so?

 

[mew]

Nobody robs liqueur stores for cactus money

 

[The Traveler]

Nobody robs liqueur stores for cactus money

But cacti do get robbed...


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[un-known-ome]

The less attention drawn to Trich use the better.

On the one hand, I feel what you are saying for sure. I think this is the best course for the time being. On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that people should be able to get together in a legally sanctioned environment and be able to enjoy these gifts with others who feel the same.

Bet yeah, for sure, no reason to raise a stink right now, as it so far seems to be a "out of sight, out of mind" issue. I was just thinking of possibilities if they do decide to crack down.

I can't help but wonder about the DEA and their motives and stuff. With all this info on the interwebs- people able to order cacti, ayahuasca, supplies and teks to make DMT, spores for magic mushrooms- they've got to know about it and that it is going on. It's not like it's a big secret. You can go on youtube and find at least several online tutorials of how to prepare cacti for consumption.

Just sharing some thoughts I've been having.

My theory? There are no motives. I would also assume that the distribution of entheogens does not go unnoticed, and that possibly any number of us--including myself--could be pursued for our illicit activities if that's really what the DEA wanted to do. Sure if you screw up badly enough or draw attention to yourself or are careless the DEA would gladly prosecute you, but otherwise you're fairly safe. Whether or not the DEA would admit as much, I think that they know that entheogens aren't particularly dangerous and are mostly separate from other criminal activity. Nor is there any public outcry. Also, as opposed to other scheduled substances, I think it would be harder to get a conviction for a cactus possession or distribution than it would for crack cocaine.

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

"The less attention drawn to Trich use the better."

I agree. I know some filmmakers who producing a film on psychs and I asked them to take out the images of trichs for that very reason. They understood and complied. Why FU a good thing?

 

[jamie]

religion is stupid anyway. Id rather not be associated with it while tripping on psychedelic plants.

 

[DiMiTriX]

saing that religion is stupid is stupid and ignorant too..i'm not religious but with a scientific mind i prefer to think that atm i can't know if there's someone beyond us..i just think that probably god doesn't exixt,but who knows for sure?

i'd like if god would exist

 

[jamie]

^ I still think religion is stupid, and that has nothing at all to do with god.

 

[Purges]

But doesn't God have to do with everything?! Including Religion?! :shock: 8)

 

[nicechrisman]

Whoa now. I never said anything about god and religion. That's a whole other can of worms...

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

Though I don't think there are too terribly many Andean Curanderos in the states, and even though cactus is fairly readily available here, it wouldn't hurt to spend time researching the culture, seek out South Americans here in the U.S. with experience and prepare for a day that might come when they do persecute the Cactus. If the day does come it would be nice to be a step ahead of the game and push the issue if it ever arises.

 

[jamie]

Whoa now. I never said anything about god and religion. That's a whole other can of worms...

I know, but in general this is how these things become legitimate in the way we are talking about. I dont know of any groups in the US or Canada who are legally using psychedelics who did not push themselves for legal approval as a religous organization..unless we are counting psilocybin studies etc..

 

[nicechrisman]

Whoa now. I never said anything about god and religion. That's a whole other can of worms...

I know, but in general this is how these things become legitimate in the way we are talking about. I dont know of any groups in the US or Canada who are legally using psychedelics who did not push themselves for legal approval as a religous organization..unless we are counting psilocybin studies etc..

true. The only entheogenic groups that have been successful with any kind of legal standing all have demonstrated a Christian standing.

 

[jamie]

^ Well, no. There is Pa Deva, the Wiccan ayahuasca church in the US as well..they seem just as dogmatic though. They were on the ayahuasca forums years back until they left because they did not believe this information should be available to people not affiliated with some kind of ayahuasca church etc. Basically they assumed they were qualified enough to work with ayahuasca but were against people drinking outside of the religious context or something enough to push that at the aya forums until they finally just left the forum.

This church also works with mimosa as an admixture as well as psychotria, with caapi. I am not sure but I think they are in new mexico..

The Fatimya SufI Order use rue and acacia, as well as psychotria and sometimes add caapi as admixture..they do seem like a really cool group but I have no idea about the legal status of their work and I dont think they are in the US but I could be wrong.