Limonene for nausea/vomiting

[Sabnock1990]

Wondering if anyone else here has tried Limonene for the Harmala-related nausea/vomiting. A few years ago i started taking Lemon Essential Oil as a form of medicine, and noticed that it helped with the Harmala-related purgative effects, it literally counteracted and blocked out the nausea and the vomiting. After awhile, i moved on to trying out pure Limonene, because i was interested in it's anti-heartburn effects and it's anti-depressant effects, and i must say, Limonene to me is a good supplement/medicine. The Lemon EO dosage i used was 10 drops in a capsule, once or twice a day, sometimes with the Harmalas, but usually in the morning, and at night before bed. With Limonene, the dosage i use is 10 drops once a night before bed. I use the Limonene from Blubonic Industries which was recommended on here for use as a solvent, i just put the drops into a capsule and take it. I've noticed it does tend to build up in the body, i think being fat soluble, and it may work from the get go, but at least for heartburn can take up to 10 to 14 days or so to become really effective. But i've noticed that Limonene seems to be the active compound in Lemon EO that works for heartburn relief and for the nausea/vomiting, whereas while it may be an active compound in Lemon EO, i find Alpha-Pinene to be the dominant compound in Lemon EO but definitely also Limonene. So i think i've isolated the main medicinal compound i get from Lemon EO, and am wondering if anyone else has put it to the test for nausea/vomiting relief particularly due to the Harmalas. I'm pretty sure that it works, and i'm thinking it works because it's a Serotonin 1A agonist which is said to interact with and antagonize the NK1 receptor, which NK1 receptor antagonists are useful as anti-emetics. Other than that, it could have some action as a Serotonin 4 agonist, but i've seen no documentation suggesting it is, my opinion on that comes from the term Prokinetic Agent, which some are Serotonin 4 agonists, but in general Prokinetic Agents seems to enhance the digestive system and helps with proper digestion, and are said to be useful against nausea, vomiting, as well as heartburn. So if Limonene does indeed seem useful as an anti-emetic for others, which i'd be interested to hear if anyone else has experience with it, then we can likely trace back it's active properties, perhaps, and figure out good ways or other compounds, for being useful anti-emetics in the case of Ayahuasca (and potentially other Psychedelics).

 

[Sabnock1990]

So, nobody else has tried Limonene for this purpose? That's surprising, well, not really lol. I seriously recommend people try this and see what they think, and report back. I've been taking Rue seed powder daily for a little over about 3 months, almost 4 months, and even from the get go didn't have any stomach/gut complaints to which i'm usually/otherwise prone to with Rue. I am also using roasted Rue seed powder instead of raw Rue seed powder, which i'm sure does make a difference as well, because i've seen some people talking about roasted Rue, and i've recommended it myself to some others, and they've reported lessened nausea and such as well. However, while roasted Rue may be more digestible than raw Rue, the Limonene no doubt helps ime, i've worked with Rue a lot, it used to always make me purge, even in purified Harmala extract form, but even from the get go of taking it again here recently, there's been absolutely no gut complaints to speak of. I also take some good probiotics as well, so that may also be helping, but i had experimented with Lemon EO, and pure Limonene, before i started the probiotics or roasting my Rue, so it's definitely a property of the Limonene imo/ime. About 5 weeks or so ago i started taking 4.4/4.5 grams of roasted Rue seed powder in capsules, and i had started out a couple or so months ago with 2 to 2.5 grams, a few weeks later upped it to 3 grams, then 5 or so weeks ago upped it to approx 4.5 grams, and so i've been just taking the same 4.5 gram dosage once a day, letting the reverse tolerance build up and the Harmala dosage to get stronger and stronger, no purgative effects, no real side-effects at all, but the Limonene does help to clean up how the Rue feels a bit. I highly recommend trying out the Limonene.

 

[mooai]

I haven't used limolene but will say how much citrus fruit juice helps to mask the taste of the rue when getting it down. Could it help by a similar mechanism? Have mixed that in my rue brews a lot, it becomes really hard to get straight rue down after drinking so much of it. I've never purged from rue, the hard part is just getting it down, once I do usually I'm fine and just ride it out laying in bed, sometimes feeling like I'm on a flying carpet. I usually just mix grinded seeds with water and knock them back as quick as possible. Smoking the seeds straight is good but doesn't produce much effect compared to eating them for me. Water extracts feel pretty good but it is so hard to get them down, that liquid just gets so foul after being given time to soak in everything from the seeds. And usually have to drink a lot of it. May I ask your strategy for ingestion since you have taken so much? Just the gelcaps? I fear I am too lazy to do that I might just keep drinking it :lol:. I tried your 20 minute 350 F toast and they are much easier to get down and I can tell they still have harmaline in them (by the taste). I'm going to take some higher doses of the toasted ones to see if I get the usual harmaline drunkenness to confirm no loss of potency. Still though it's a little bit of a struggle to get the stuff down every time, even after the toasting.

I am also hoping they feel cleaner after this toast... I really liked taking a lot of the rue but I actually had to stop because I felt kind of 'dumber' or something. Not exactly dumber but I could feel it was taking a toll on me and I didn't feel as sharp as usual. I had been taking raw seeds daily for maybe 3 months maybe 3 grams or so a day. Seems to have gone away after taking a break for a few days but I don't want to start again if that's how it ends up effecting me. I don't get that downside via smoking but I know I get it from eating raw seeds in large amounts over long periods of time. Have you noticed anything like this?

 

[endlessness]

I used to do it when I was taking a lot of pharma/aya/analogues some years back, but I would take an essential lemon oil that was mostly limonene but had a certain percentage of beta-pinene (around 15% I think), which is a 5-HT3 antagonist.. I am not aware of limonene exhibiting 5-HT3 antagonism, so I'm not sure what other mechanism that could be responsible for your perceived anti-nausea effect.

It's been many years, I can't remember how well it worked but I do remember doing it several times. I also remember limonene burps lol

Over time I think I've found ginger to be more effective, I think when looking at cancer treatment anti-nausea dosages in publications it was around 500mg-1g of ginger powder, not sure how much that would be when fresh but i'm sure that's easy to look up.

I guess one could take a mix of 5-HT3 inhibitors, if they do not have any other undesirable interaction. I think CosmicLion had some recipe he liked to use, he posted about it somewhere.

Or, you can just accept the possibility of nausea and work with it

 

[Sabnock1990]

@mooai - Can't say how citrus would help with masking the taste, i always take Rue seed powder in capsule form, or extracts in capsule form. So for me getting it down is not an issue, keeping it down usually was. But yeah i just take capsules of either roasted or raw Rue seed powder. The roasted seed definitely seems cleaner and a bit lighter compared to raw seed but still seems quite effective, i've had the thought that maybe there's some alteration of the chemical composition when roasting, but i'm not sure, could just be that it does away with the oils/fats or something. Compared to raw seed, roasted seed does seem a little different, more tolerable/manageable, still potent though but feels like it's lighter than the raw seed, even took 7 grams of the roasted seed powder one night and while it was up there in terms of dosage, it still felt cleaner to me than the raw seed, raw seed i can't take anymore than like 4.5 grams without it feeling quite rough. The roasted seed to me feels more similar to a full spectrum freebased Rue extract compared to the raw seed. Sometimes when dosing Rue/Harmalas regularly i do feel a bit duller, and a bit more lazy or hard to be motivated, but the roasted seed doesn't seem as noticeable in that department compared to the raw seed.

@endlessness - I have read that Beta-Pinene was considered to be a Serotonin 3 antagonist but apparently people have disproven that, and i've tried pure Beta-Pinene and it doesn't touch the nausea/vomiting aspect of Rue/Harmalas. I've also tried Ginger root tea, Ginger root chews, Ginger EO in a capsule, Ginger root powder capsules, Peppermint leaf tea, Peppermint EO in a capsule, and i've tried up to 8mgs of Zofran (which ime was way too much with Harmalas because Harmalas inhibit CYP1A2 which Zofran is metabolized by so who knows how much Zofran i actually ended up consuming), and none of them touched the nausea/vomiting either, so it doesn't appear to come down to Serotonin 3 antagonism ime, i mean it may help to some degree with the nausea but never counteracted the purge. It wasn't until i started taking pure Limonene (from Blubonic Industries, which was a source for Limonene talked about on the Nexus awhile back), 10 drops in a capsule with the Rue/Harmalas, that i noticed it seemed to be the primary active in Lemon EO that not only knocked out nausea, but prevented the purge as well. I never purged with Lemon EO in the mix, and i haven't purged with pure Limonene in the mix. Idk if Limonene works from the get go, although it should, but i was taking it daily as a supplement because it has anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects and helps to relieve heartburn better than any heartburn medicine or supplement i've tried, but for the heartburn properties and medicinal benefits it seems to work best when taken for 10 to 14 days, so that may play a role as well in the anti-emetic properties, i'm not sure, but it did seem to help with nausea/vomiting for me from the get go.

Limonene is speculated to be a Serotonin 1A agonist, as well as an Adenosine A2A agonist, and i can definitely tell it has Serotonin 1A agonism. It also seems to act as what they call a "prokinetic agent" meaning it helps to get digestion going and may increase gastrointestinal peristalsis, which prokinetic agents are said to be useful for nausea, vomiting, heartburn, gerd and other gastrointestinal issues. When looking up on Serotonin 1A agonism, it is said that at least some Serotonin 1A agonists can crosstalk with and inhibit the NK1 receptor, and NK1 receptor antagonists/inhibitors seem to work as anti-emetics preventing nausea and vomiting, so imo it either has to do with that, or because it's a prokinetic agent, rather than it being about Serotonin 3 antagonism. Idk if Adenosine A2A agonism has any anti-emetic effects or not, so i can't say if that's invovled or not. But 10 drops of pure Limonene in a capsule is good medicine ime.

 

[Sabnock1990]

But yes, acceptance of the nausea/vomiting is fine too. In fact, if you put up with it and keep taking the Rue/Harmalas regularly, like daily or near daily for a bit, then after the reverse tolerance builds up and your body gets used to things, the side-effects go away anyways, so no more nausea/vomiting/diarrhea, bodyload cleans up, motor function impairment is reduced and things become way more functional and manageable even on heavy, heavy dosages. I've even eaten big meals right before right and after/during, dosing the Rue/Harmalas with the reverse tolerance built up and haven't had any issues whatsoever. But it's a good thing imo to have anti-emetic options from the get go just cause, it even helps you take the Rue/Harmalas regularly without having to deal with the nausea/vomiting and then one can cut out the anti-emetics after a certain point and completely skip over the nausea/vomiting.

 

[kielmago]

Wondering if anyone else here has tried Limonene for the Harmala-related nausea/vomiting. A few years ago i started taking Lemon Essential Oil as a form of medicine, and noticed that it helped with the Harmala-related purgative effects, it literally counteracted and blocked out the nausea and the vomiting. After awhile, i moved on to trying out pure Limonene, because i was interested in it's anti-heartburn effects and it's anti-depressant effects, and i must say, Limonene to me is a good supplement/medicine. The Lemon EO dosage i used was 10 drops in a capsule, once or twice a day, sometimes with the Harmalas, but usually in the morning, and at night before bed. With Limonene, the dosage i use is 10 drops once a night before bed. I use the Limonene from Blubonic Industries which was recommended on here for use as a solvent, i just put the drops into a capsule and take it. I've noticed it does tend to build up in the body, i think being fat soluble, and it may work from the get go, but at least for heartburn can take up to 10 to 14 days or so to become really effective. But i've noticed that Limonene seems to be the active compound in Lemon EO that works for heartburn relief and for the nausea/vomiting, whereas while it may be an active compound in Lemon EO, i find Alpha-Pinene to be the dominant compound in Lemon EO but definitely also Limonene. So i think i've isolated the main medicinal compound i get from Lemon EO, and am wondering if anyone else has put it to the test for nausea/vomiting relief particularly due to the Harmalas. I'm pretty sure that it works, and i'm thinking it works because it's a Serotonin 1A agonist which is said to interact with and antagonize the NK1 receptor, which NK1 receptor antagonists are useful as anti-emetics. Other than that, it could have some action as a Serotonin 4 agonist, but i've seen no documentation suggesting it is, my opinion on that comes from the term Prokinetic Agent, which some are Serotonin 4 agonists, but in general Prokinetic Agents seems to enhance the digestive system and helps with proper digestion, and are said to be useful against nausea, vomiting, as well as heartburn. So if Limonene does indeed seem useful as an anti-emetic for others, which i'd be interested to hear if anyone else has experience with it, then we can likely trace back it's active properties, perhaps, and figure out good ways or other compounds, for being useful anti-emetics in the case of Ayahuasca (and potentially other Psychedelics).

Hi,
Last night I tried a ceremony. Trying out what I thought was orange essential oil for the limonene. I later found out it was cold pressed orange peel (maybe not as concentrated)

I had Rue Capsules I made and a pre brewed acacia that had sat in the fridge for 4 months to help seperate the tannins.

I was worried about the rue because I tried 4g on its on and had a super powerful horrid experience.. saw alot of dark stuff inside myself aswell as non stop vomiting and diahrea.
Since then the smell of rue gave me a gag reflex

Ate rue capsules, with 20 drops of cold pressed orange peel (labelled as orange oil) waited 50mins and then drank Acacia

Vomited up the lot within 10minutes. Only to find my capsules hadn't even started breaking down and only were hydrated. So I'm guessing I should either leave them in a glass of water for an hour before I eat next time or get different capsules?

Regardless I'm not sure if it was because of the strong vinegar taste of acacia brew or just a gag from the DMT in the gut..

I plan on buying pure limonene for next time.
Do you think that will help with the DMT nausea aswell? I thought it was the rue that'd make me puke, but obviously it was the DMT as the rue capsules hadn't even opened up yet.

Maybe it was the vinegar taste? A guy who told me to put white vinegar in said it'd boil off, maybe I put to much in? Usually my style to be heavy on everything (brewed for 12 hours)

I have taken this brew before and I know it works because it was very cosmic and lucid.. but I puked later and had a few cups.

Unfortunately my stomach/nausea is pretty weak.. so I kinda know it'd almost get worse for puking unless I have a different protocol