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Looking for advice on Harmine/Harmaline freebase, a variety of herbs, the best way to infuse the proper ratios into one or more, and med interactions

S

SynergyDelDivinityTrinity

Rising Star
Ok, so I've had experience with Changa but only a few times in life and and they varied in nature a bit but were all much more enjoyable overall than pure N,N Deems freebase. I have a lot of experience with DMT freebase alone in the past, but that was when I was much younger. It has been a long time since I've smoked/valorized any of it.

Since that time in life, I've started taking a nootropic stack as well as some prescription meds and I was wondering if there could be contradictions between any of these as far as any of the nootropic herbs and any of the changa "experimental herbs" that I was potentially going to tinker with to find the perfect mixture, the harmine freebase, or the approximate 1:1 harmine/harmaline freebase mixture and any of the prescription medications being consumed.

I've got almost every herb I've heard of people including in their mixtures. Not actually, but pretty close. To be specific, we've got Mullein leaf, cut and sifted Marshmallow Root, Mugwort leaves, Chaliponga leaves, Calea Zacatechichi, Caapi Leaf, crushed Blue Lotus, Passion Flower Extract, Peppermint leaves, Red Raspberry Leaf, cut and sifted Pau D'Arco, and some Damiana.

I know it's a lot but I wanted future options and variety to be able to play with in able to find the cleanest feeling, smoothest transition possible into "that space" that is also a very pleasant smoke that isn't too harsh at all. I want to be able to easily smoke enough to "blast off", but for that to take maybe a full bowl or .4-.5g of material that is easy to smoke to be able to connect with nature and experience the transition between spaces slowly. A slow smoke where you find yourself sliding into that headspace very smoothly, with little anxiety or "body load".

I was going to ask those who have the experience wether I should start off using a nearly 100% Harmine freebase added to a specific herb or herbs or if I should use a 1:1 ratio of a Harmaline/Harmine freebase. I don't know what the exact herbs or ratios of what was in the Changa I've had in the past. I really wish now that I'd asked more questions at the time but I was in awe most of the times and didn't know the individuals that well.

So out of the herbs I've listed, the freebase deems, and the Harmine freebase OR the 1:1 Harmine/Harmaline freebase, which would you guys mix into your favorite mixture(s) if you are NOT looking for anything stimulating or anxiety inducing, NOT looking to push doses of Harmine/Harmaline freebase far enough to experience the purging process, but instead rather dreamy/relaxed/clean/bodly load free come up, how would you go about infusing into your main herb or leaf, at what kind of ratios should the infusion be, would a strong food grade Everclear be alright for this or should one use IPA or Acetone, and which herb/leaf would you chose to infuse or should one infuse the whole mixture or part of it and add any other herb to the already infused bit afterward?

I'm sorry for the basic/noob questions. These others will take a bit more knowledge on potentially negative interactions as far as medications go. I was speaking of small doses of Xanax and Methadone (which I would lay off for a day or two before this or cut their dosages to almost nothing). Metoprolol (beta blocker), Imipramine, Desmopressin, Green Tea extract (taken occasionally), Ashwaganda & Ginko extract (small amount daily), Mind Lab Pro Mixture containing a Vit B stack, citicoline, Bacopa Monnieri (full spectrum extract), Lion's Mane, Phosphatidylserine, N-Acetyl-Tyrosine, L-Theanine, Rhodia Rosea, and Maritime Pine bark extract. All of these ingredients are in small dosages of each.

Keep in mind that if there are potential interactions, I could stop taking certain meds for however long necessary if needed but I need to be aware of the potential fkr them.

Keeping in mind all of the above info and considering what I have to work with, how would some of you that are pretty experienced with Changa and making your own blends go about creating your blend with what's available? Any helpful contribution is greatly appreciated. Much love, fellow travelers.
 
Oh that's a lot.

I'm gonna give you some gpt output for my own convenience, but please take heed, this is accurate information:

HARD RED FLAGS. Do not combine with harmalas


These are not “maybe” interactions.


1. Imipramine (major problem)


  • Tricyclic antidepressant
  • Strong serotonergic and noradrenergic activity
  • Contraindicated with MAOIs
  • Risk includes serotonin syndrome, hypertensive crisis, arrhythmia

This alone is enough to say:
Do not combine harmine or harmaline with your current regimen.


Washout periods for TCAs are measured in weeks, not days.



2. Methadone (serious risk)


  • Serotonergic activity
  • QT prolongation risk
  • Metabolized via pathways affected by MAO inhibition

Even low doses plus harmalas increase:


  • Respiratory depression risk
  • Cardiac rhythm instability
  • Delayed toxicity

“Laying off for a day or two” is not sufficient.



3. Rhodiola rosea


  • MAO-A activity on its own
  • Serotonergic and dopaminergic effects

Stacking this with harmalas is stacking MAOIs. Bad idea.



4. Green tea extract (concentrated)


  • Not the tea. The extract.
  • Can raise catecholamines and blood pressure
  • Unpredictable with MAO inhibition

Lower risk than the above, but still a no.



MODERATE RISK. Strong caution


These are not instant “never”, but they meaningfully increase risk.


Xanax (alprazolam)


  • Not serotonergic
  • But combined with methadone or MAOIs increases respiratory suppression risk
  • Also masks early warning signs of toxicity

Metoprolol


  • Beta blockers can mask hypertensive reactions
  • Makes MAOI complications harder to detect

Ginkgo biloba


  • Serotonergic effects
  • Bleeding risk
  • CNS potentiation

Bacopa monnieri


  • Serotonergic modulation
  • Mild MAOI activity reported


LOWER RISK BUT STILL RELEVANT


These are not primary dangers but add noise and unpredictability.


  • Ashwagandha
  • L-theanine
  • Lion’s mane
  • Citicoline
  • Phosphatidylserine
  • N-acetyl-tyrosine
  • Maritime pine bark
  • Vitamin B complex

Individually mild. Collectively, stacked with MAOIs, they increase unpredictability.



Key takeaway, stated plainly


With imipramine and methadone in the picture, harmine or harmaline use is not compatible in a responsible harm-reduction framework.


This is not about being cautious.
This is about avoiding a real medical emergency.


Stopping those medications casually or briefly is not safe and not advised without medical supervision.
Click to expand...

With the important safety precautions addressed, I'll answer the rest of the questions in the next post.
 
The info on the green tea extract (and some others) looks very doubtful to me. It may be true if the green tea extract has caffeine, which is not always the case. And still caffeine in reasonable amounts is not too much of a dangerous combination, it just requires some common sense with the doses. So yes, "lower risk than the above" indeed. "Still a no" is very subjective IMO and just pattern matching on the effects of caffeine.

It's exactly right for imipramine and methadone, that's for sure.
 
Harmine:Harmaline Ratios are really up to individual preference. In general harmine is a bit more gentle in effect, harmaline is a bit more "stern" and potent by weight . All harmalas can cause bodyload, dizziness, nausea, and vertigo at higher doses. A mix of both tends to balace effects pretty well and 1:1 isn't a bad starting point, experiment and see what works for you (When you've sorted out the med issues, for real don't take harmalas via any ROA with anti-depressants or methadone, just don't)

Infusion Materials again is largely individual preference. My main advice here would be try smoking/vaping each herb individually and see what is actually pleasant for you on it's own, then try creating blends and only when you've settled on a blend that you truly love do you look at infusing it.

Infusion Ratio is again, your preference. Personally I like a ratio of .3 harmal : 1 DMT : 1 plant material (300 mg harmalas and 1 gram of DMT infused into 1 gram of plant material for example) that's the sweet spot for me, but many people like a much heavier harmala ratio (1:1 or even 2:1). I suggest starting low, you can always sprinkle on a bit more harmala freebase, you can't easily remove it if you infuse too heavily for you liking.

Gentle Transition is better achieved via diluting the bowl with extra herbs than by making a weak blend. This is a trap a lot of people fall into, they don't want a super heavy changa so they infuse at a weak ratio, but then end up needling to smoke huge amounts to get light effects. Infuse at a full 1 part DMT to 1 part plant material (and chosen amount of harmala) and just dilute it by mixing it in the bowl with some non-infused herbal material to your liking if you want a weaker experience. With changa the transition is more about smoking technique, you can get a gentle experience by being leisurely, taking small puffs with breaks in between, allowing it to come on and ramp up slowly, or you can get a heavy experience by filling the bong with milky white lungbusters and holding it in till you dissolve, one of it's many benefits is that it provides this much more granular level of control with near instant feedback than other methods.

Solvent is typically acetone or ethanol, isopropyl works, just be sure to dry it very well. I use ethanol personally due to it being more accessible, but acetone evaps much faster. USP grade when possible, food/drinking grade ethanol (everclear) is fine, vodka is fine but takes ages to evap fully. When it's fully dry, don't forget to stir it up really well and let it dry again. All smell of solvent should be gone from the material prior to sealing/smoking. I strongly suggest avoiding heat near flammable solvents, I use a fan in a well ventilated room pointed out an open window away from people and pets.

An Example Blend I would recommend based on what you have: (Assuming 1 gram of DMT and no harmalas because you shouldn't be taking them till you sort out your medications) 500 mg mullein, 300 mg blue lotus, 100 mg raspberry leaf, 50 mg marshmallow (well shredded), 50 mg pau d'arco (well shredded).

Give a pass on the caapi leaf and passion flower extract due to the meds, even low level MAO activity like this is iffy when anti-depressants are involved. Calea tastes pretty bad, it's a worthwhile herb to experiment with, but not the best changa adddition. Mugwort doesn't hurt to add, but personally I'd incorporate it with the calea in some dreamwork. The Chaliponga won't really be enough to move the needle in a changa blend without extraction, you could add it for some 'spirit', but it'd be purely symbolic. Peppermint is a bit hash of a smoke for my taste, a great tea to sip on the comedown though. Damiana likewise I'm not really fond of the flavor but it would be fine to add. If you wanted to go a single herb, I'd say the blue lotus hands down, it's a lovely base for enhanced leaf.

I hope that answers most of the questions. Haapi exploring. :cool:
 
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blig-blug said:
The info on the green tea extract (and some others) looks very doubtful to me. It may be true if the green tea extract has caffeine, which is not always the case. And still caffeine in reasonable amounts is not too much of a dangerous combination, it just requires some common sense with the doses. So yes, "lower risk than the above" indeed. "Still a no" is very subjective IMO and just pattern matching on the effects of caffeine.

It's exactly right for imipramine and methadone, that's for sure.
Click to expand...


I expect the green tea and rhodiola and such aren't a big deal, I actually take plenty of both regualrly and have combined plenty of times with harmala, but erring on the side of caution is never a bad idea, particularly with other medications involved. The meds are 100% no go though, can't emphasize that enough.
 
blig-blug said:
The info on the green tea extract (and some others) looks very doubtful to me. It may be true if the green tea extract has caffeine, which is not always the case. And still caffeine in reasonable amounts is not too much of a dangerous combination, it just requires some common sense with the doses. So yes, "lower risk than the above" indeed. "Still a no" is very subjective IMO and just pattern matching on the effects of caffeine.

It's exactly right for imipramine and methadone, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
The Green Tea Extract is non-caffinated and honestly used between Ketamine sessions or before/after. It soothes the bladder and urinary tract as well as targeting free radicals as well as providing immune and circulatory system support and has done some good for friends who have used K either in large concetrations for up to a week or so at a time before breaks or for long time periods. Figured it couldn't hurt to add to regiment but I will heed warnings.
 
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dreamer042 said:
Oh that's a lot.

I'm gonna give you some gpt output for my own convenience, but please take heed, this is accurate information:



With the important safety precautions addressed, I'll answer the rest of the questions in the next post.
Click to expand...
Thank you SO much. This info is invaluable to me. I tried about 40mg of deems the other day alone without changing any medications and I knew something was either wrong or "off" and that was with NO added Harmine or Harmaline. I thought maybe my body had changed in nature or it was a med reaction and suspected the second because it induced tightness in the chest and seemed to even restrict breathing to an extent. I took one blast, felt the power, eyes glazed over and started tk get in the zone but the side effects in the chest were impossible to ignore. Maybe that was circulatory issues putting pressure on the heart or one of many things. I knew if I hit it again, I would "blast off" but I also felt like it was contradicting with wither the Metoprolol or the Imipramine and coud have potentially cause aserious issue as my chest experienced a LOT of pressure and difficulty grasping FULL normal breaths for about 7 minutes.

I was on Methadone the previous times I smoked Changa and even at a higher dosage than currently, as well as xanax if I remember correctly and didn't notice any issues (however I was much younger and body was likely much more resilient). I was not on the imipramine or metoprolol though or the Nootropic stack or really any other herbs or medications. The imipramine isn't being used as an anti-depressant effect per se even though it is definitely a TCA. The nootropic stack is for cognitive purposes, memory, mood, etc. The xanax I've been on since I was a teen and I'm nearly a couple years from 40 and lowering the dosage slowly. The Methadone since approximately 2008 and am currently at 40mg daily and coming down. Before I had to have been on 70mg or mor and coming down and have been on dosages as high as 165mg when I was a lot younger amd dumber.

Thank you for the time you invested in your response. I'm also very appreciative of the info you provided regarding specific ratios, the herbs in question, and how you would go about creating a legitimate mixture after getting the med situation worked out. All looks like good advice.

Oh well, looks like I'm out of luck until I get the meds worked out...at least really close fam will love it. I'm seriously grateful some OG's like yourself are aware of these specific interactions though. Could have potentially saved me a hospital trip or much worse.
 
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