LSA and peppermint extract

[lysurgeon]

A couple years ago, I posted a thread called LS/Aldehydes in the Plant Analysis and Substance Testing forum. Instead of anybody offering to perform an analysis, I was told I should learn how to do paper chromatography. I tried it. I never got anything from it but smears on paper. I posted again, and got nothing from anyone. Actually come to think of it, I have had a lot of cooperation-related problems here on the Nexus. Anyone remember the THC-Acid thread? I still make hash that way, and my friends love it! It's genuine research, and nary a cause for flaming, which I got plenty of in that thread.

But my heart is big and my mind is steadfast and determined, and with all the good info generated here, I can't just leave this forum. Luckily there are finally enough people interested and presenting similar results that the people who doubted the validity of my experimental results are probably being forced to reconsider their rejectionist attitude. Sorry for any odd vibes here, I do get frustrated when I know I'm telling the truth and nobody who hears it believes me. I don't use N=1 studies though. I always include two other people in an experiment, with the exception that nobody I know will take a combo of plants they've never heard of before until I have already done it and told them whether it was worthwhile or not. So I have to try it first, then talk my friends into it, in order to gather experimental data. This is why we need analysis! (In fact, it's a lucky thing that I did my study with Vanillin/LSA initially using 3 people, or I might not have believed the results and I definitely wouldn't have been able to convince anyone to do it afterward...."Say, would you like to take a huge dose of LSA and experience almost nothing from it whatsoever? Please, help me waste my drugs." )


Benzyme, Endlessness, Infundibulum...I don't know who among you is the community's analytical chemist, but it IS easier for you to repeat our experiments and subject the material to GC-MS (and much more effective!) than me trying to make high-end analytical equipment out of a jar and a strip of blotter paper. Seriously. I tried it plenty of times, and it was always a waste of paper, solvent, and sample. Easier to say this: I tried paper chromatography, and at least it didn't break the jar I used.

I would like to see the following materials analyzed (which I don't have the equipment or know-how to perform, and you NEED BOTH) :

1) CWE of HBWR
2) CWE of HBWR, plus ethanol
3) CWE of HBWR, plus ethanol and peppermint oil
4) CWE of HBWR, plus ethanol and cinnamon oil
5) "Kash's Advanced" (in ethanol)
6) "Kash's Advanced" (in ethanol) plus cinnamon oil

I am confident that these 6 analyses will help us eliminate unknown variables, and will be key to demonstrating the mechanism by which the pharmacology of LSA changes.

Again, sorry I'm a little frustrated I know it's not good for the tone of my writing, but we could be way past this "LSH" debate by now. All it takes is the use of resources that are presently available to the Nexus community.

 

[lysurgeon]

Another alternative exists: if someone is willing to buy me some analytical equipment or make its use available to me somehow, I will do the analysis myself.

 

[benzyme]

paper chrom is rudimentary and qualitative, it doesn't say much.
gc/ms, given the proper derivatization (heat-labile compounds need to be complexed)
can be much more useful for identification. not only can you extrapolate relative abundance from the chromatograms, you can derive reaction kinetics.

the same is true for lc-ms (which is what I've worked with), except no derivatization is required. LC-MS is ideal for analyzing heat-labile molecules.

 

[lysurgeon]

Cool. Do you currently have access to LC-MS? I agree it makes sense to use LC instead of GC since we definitely don't want to vaporize these samples! Perhaps you would be willing to produce these samples and analyze them for us?

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I'm not convinced that this whole 'peppermint/LSA' thing isn't just a particularly dramatic example of the power of the placebo effect. We all know that set and setting can effect the psychedelic experience really profoundly, and if you've been told, over and over again, that adding peppermint will make your LSA better, you'll probably psych yourself into having a better trip.

I'd like to see a double-blind, controlled study on this.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Cognitive Heart]

I'm not convinced that this whole 'peppermint/LSA' thing isn't just a particularly dramatic example of the power of the placebo effect. We all know that set and setting can effect the psychedelic experience really profoundly, and if you've been told, over and over again, that adding peppermint will make your LSA better, you'll probably psych yourself into having a better trip.
I'd like to see a double-blind, controlled study on this.

Well, it seems that with different preparations, each one prepares a total quantity of alkaloids. Some more, some less. Many Nexian's have stated about their enhanced experiences with LSA and essential oils, including myself. Its nothing radical..yet- but is certainly of interest to many of us here willing to review and experiment more with these compounds. I know it isn't placebo because I could see it happening directly. The experience in general with CWE is lighter, but with mixed variations becomes colorfully lighter. Its a code that needs more exploration.

--

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I'm not convinced that this whole 'peppermint/LSA' thing isn't just a particularly dramatic example of the power of the placebo effect. We all know that set and setting can effect the psychedelic experience really profoundly, and if you've been told, over and over again, that adding peppermint will make your LSA better, you'll probably psych yourself into having a better trip.
I'd like to see a double-blind, controlled study on this.

Well, it seems that with different preparations, each one prepares a total quantity of alkaloids. Some more, some less. Many Nexian's have stated about their enhanced experiences with LSA and essential oils, including myself. Its nothing radical..yet- but is certainly of interest to many of us here willing to review and experiment more with these compounds. I know it isn't placebo because I could see it happening directly. The experience in general with CWE is lighter, but with mixed variations becomes colorfully lighter. Its a code that needs more exploration.

--

I think you might be underestimating the power of the placebo effect.

Give this a read. It's an analysis of various studies of the placebo effect on both psychology and physiology. The section on ipecac is particularly salient.

To summarize (but really, read the whole thing), a doctor gave patients ipecac to make them nauseous and vomit, and then told them he was giving them a syrup that would quiet their stomach and reduce nausea. He administered the syrup and, sure enough, the reported less nausea, vomiting ceased, and sensors reported the smooth muscle was back to behaving normally. The catch is: he just gave them more ipecac and lied to them!

Blessings
~ND

 

[Cognitive Heart]

I think you might be underestimating the power of the placebo effect.
Give this a read. It's an analysis of various studies of the placebo effect on both psychology and physiology. The section on ipecac is particularly salient.
To summarize (but really, read the whole thing), a doctor gave patients ipecac to make them nauseous and vomit, and then told them he was giving them a syrup that would quiet their stomach and reduce nausea. He administered the syrup and, sure enough, the reported less nausea, vomiting ceased, and sensors reported the smooth muscle was back to behaving normally. The catch is: he just gave them more ipecac and lied to them!
~ND

I am aware of the power of the placebo effect. Surely it is involved with some psychoactive experiences, whether you're aware or not, especially during the onset. It can result in the entire outcome of the trip. This is one reason why set and setting are so important. I've tried placebo experiments and they work. However, I can personally say I've never used or encountered placebo with LSA as the effects manifest whether I like it or not. I don't think its necessary to use placebo with entheogens anyways.

The brain automatically changes its functioning patterns once you ingest psychedelics. Mental and emotional patterns start to rise and begin their actions. Perhaps then, the placebo could simply be a natural method for the brain to coexist with the compounds. Subtly and/or powerfully. So, clearly from that experiment, the placebo effect basically saved them from being poisoned. So, if placebo is helpful in practice, why not use it with psychedelics? Same idea with anything else you ingest. It must be said that this is complete manipulation to yourself, so not something I'm entirely fond of, but useful. If the psychedelic effects are powerful enough, its of no use and waste of effort.

Also, why would you lie to yourself? Even during a psychedelic experience. Doesn't seem clear minded. Its simple enough to just accept and enjoy the effects, whatever they may be.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

It has nothing to do with what you 'like' and everything to do with what you believe.

Who said anything about lying to yourself? The whole point of the effect is that, even if what you believe is objectively untrue, you don't know that. You really couldn't know whether your experience with LSA was a placebo or not.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

You really couldn't know whether your experience with LSA was a placebo or not.

Okay, well, if this was the case, than why would it matter either way? It is what it is. If it helps, great. If nothing is of action, great. A double blind experiment still would be interesting and can only conclude what we are speaking of. I'm not discounting that idea but nor am I am taking part in manipulating others.

Honestly, I could do that with upcoming batches, but I'd rather be truthful and focus on current methods of preparation/extraction and actually take part in the experiences/experiments directly and progress from there. lysurgeon has professionally taken stand to do some real work, here. Hopefully someone is willing to study the DB effect for this issue. We'll need the right liquids first, though.

--

:thumb_up:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I've read the placebo article - interesting. Perhaps we don't need drugs at all.

Try the following:

*Truly convince yourself that psychedelics work backwards in time, i.e. the effects start to manifest themselves before the substance is ingested.

*Fully believe that within the next hour or so, or day or whatever, you will consume some kind of effective psychedelic sacrament.

*Maintain this state at your own discretion.

It is probably necessary to have had at least one bona fide psychedelic experience in order for this self-program to work.

Thinking about it, this may explain why I feel, er, "unusual" much of the time.

 

[benzyme]

an alternate idea: show some analytical evidence to distinguish between a control group and experimental group, i.e. differentiate between LSA and LSA + presumed adduct; not just accounts of experiences.

 

[Entheogenerator]

an alternate idea: show some analytical evidence to distinguish between a control group and experimental group, i.e. differentiate between LSA and LSA + presumed adduct; not just accounts of experiences.

I like this idea.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

an alternate idea: show some analytical evidence to distinguish between a control group and experimental group, i.e. differentiate between LSA and LSA + presumed adduct; not just accounts of experiences.

Agreed. 8)

I am willing to be apart of the experimental group. Lets not forget..fresh HBWR seeds only..considering they(from what is currently known) contain LSH and not just LSA. I'd want to use the basic requirements of extraction via H2O.

 

[_Trip_]

Although purely theoretically I thought this may interest some.

 

[ava69]

_trip_ said:

Although purely theoretically I thought this may interest some.

File Attachment(s):
Paper+1+(2022.1.1)+The+Theoretical+Synthesis+and+in+silico+Modelling+of+Lysergic+Acid+Biscinnamylidene+Amide+from+the+Adduct+Formation+of+d-Lysergic.pdf

I have not seen that paper before, thanks _trip_. Impressive 2022 paper, many thanks for this.

Believe it or not, I was the one who back at the old Lycaeum forum, was the first to bring up the LSA + adducts theory, and have since written many topics on this:

part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water [post #8] Journal: 50 Sublingual | <span style="frontcolor:pink !Important ;">High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron)</span> | DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

In the link above is a 1994 adducts paper I found that verified that LSA could form adducts with acetaldehyde, it's in the link. All you need is a solution that is at ph=4 or below, wine works well as it is already at ph=4, and add LSA and add acetaldehyde, but you don't have to add acetaldehyde as it is already found in high concentrations in wine, especially sherry wine. But you need to use fresh just opened cold sherry wine, as the acetaldehyde boils off at 70 degree F, so keep in fridge at all times, then spray wine preservation gas into the wine before re-sealing to prevent the acetaldehyde in the wine from oxidizing into vinegar.

Example: add 3 LSD shots to a shot glass full of cold sherry wine, stir the shot glass once per hour as it sits in fridge for 3 hours, then drink wine, it will have turned into 1-acetaldehyde LSD, or almost the exact same equivalent as ALD-52, also discovered by Albert Hofmann. ALD-52 or 1-acetaldehyde LSD is way better than LSD imho, and this is the only way I take LSD, and have used it this way at least 30 times over many years...1-acetaldehyde LSD is more natural, does not feel man-made, more colorful, way more gentle and not as harsh as LSD. More visual, combines very well with 300mg of THH at same time, feels more like a mescaline + ALD-52 trip, heavenly experience.

After the Lycaeum went down, 69ron and Kash experimented with LSA adducts based on what I had written at the Lycaeum.

I had read that the Greek Priest used to add mint leaves (contains many aldehydes like mainly acetaldehyde and others) to the Kykeon in "The Road to Eleusis" by Dr. Hoffmann and professor Carl AP Ruck, which was possibly believed to be an extraction of claviceps paspali ergot (which grows on the famous plain adjacent to Eleusis where the kykeon was drunk by hundreds of initiates each year) which has the same alkaloid profile as the Mesoamerican (Aztec and Mayan) entheogenic morning glory. When mint is added and stirred, then consumed after several hours, adducts can form from the LSA and other LSH like alkaloids in the claviceps paspali ergot, making them even more powerful than normal.

Vecktor (advanced chemist like myself):

Ava69, you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.

Thanks again for the 2022 paper _trip_

pic: attached Wikipedia entry on this.