LSA

[BeyondCrazy]

Hello forum.
Theoretically would this extraction work without making one sick?

Performed in dark room (red light).

1. Crush HBW seeds in mortar.

2, Add Acetone to cover seeds.

3, Shake.

4, Filter and discard seed mush.

5, Add Xylene to the Acetone.

6, Shake.

7, Siphon and discard Xylene layer.

8, Evaporate Acetone.

L S A remains as goo. :d

 

[Elf Machine]

No. For one, your xylene and acetone won't seperate. Second, acetone is too strong a solvent to wash your seeds with. Wash your seeds with a non-polar, then extract the goodies with acidified alcohol.

 

[BeyondCrazy]

No. For one, your xylene and acetone won't seperate. Second, acetone is too strong a solvent to wash your seeds with. Wash your seeds with a non-polar, then extract the goodies with acidified alcohol.

Thanks for replying.

When you say “acetone is too strong a solvent” do you mean Acetone will destroy the LSA?

I was hoping to wash everything out with the Acetone (the good and bad stuff) then disregard the seed thus retaining a jar of Acetone + alkaloids (good and bad) in liquid form.

Was then hoping to add a non poler solvent to the Acetone to extract the non poler alkaloids from the Acetone.

I know this is a different approach but...... I’ve red so many stories from people who have done the poler/non poler wash with bad results.

So........ If Acetone will not destroy the LSA can you recommend a non poler solvent that will separate from the Acetone?

Thanks.

 

[BeyondCrazy]

"No. For one, your xylene and acetone won't seperate".

Correct.... if you just add xylene to acetone, but SWIM is not.
SWIM is adding xylene to acetone + alkaloids and that does separate quite clearly.

So.... will acetone kill the good alkaloids?

 

[Elf Machine]

"No. For one, your xylene and acetone won't seperate".

Correct.... if you just add xylene to acetone, but SWIM is not.
SWIM is adding xylene to acetone + alkaloids and that does separate quite clearly.

Maybe I don't understand your question. Acetone is an aprotic solvent and is miscible with xylene, even with alkaloids in the mix. So, after mixing them how do you plan on seperating them to get your alkaloids out?

So.... will acetone kill the good alkaloids?

The acetone shouldn't react with the alkaloids.

 

[Elf Machine]

If you want to use acetone to extract the alkaloids instead of acidified alcohol it should be fine, but wash your seeds first with the xylene. I don't know how well that will work though.

 

[EarthTrust]

Hey there, I know a thing or two about hbwr and solvents. The best way to have a clean, safe, potent, and ill free trip off lsa is to simply do a cold water extraction, add a little lemon or lime juice in a full glass of water.

First you want to scrape any wax or shell of the seed, wash and clean very thoroughly. For that is the main reason you get sick.
Then crush and put in a tea bag or what works best is to do the whole process in a french press. It is a great investment. let it sit for a good 12 hours. the longer the better I think. strain and drink. I have never gotten sick this way. I would usually do 15 to 20 seeds, from a good source, grown in hawaii. great lsd like visuals without much of the paranoia.

Good luck, be safe, feel free to ask any questions.

Also, a safe bet would be to start with 7 to 10 seeds. see how your body reacts at a smaller dose with cold water extraction.

 

[Wanderer]

The principle reason for becoming sick or nauseous with LSA containing plants in the Convolvulaceae family is the presence of cyanogenic glucosides like amygdalin (same compounds which make apple seeds and prunus stones toxic). When the seed is macerated, enzymes in the cell wall mix with the glucosides stored intracellularly, releasing hydrogen cyanide. Cyanide strongly binds to iron in an enzyme complex which allows your cells to use oxygen to create energy (ATP), essentially suffocating and killing the cell. This is why stomachs tend not to like it.

Now, I'm not aware of any confirmed reports of cyanogens being isolated from HBWR seeds, though there are anecdotal reports of it being found on the fuzzy outside layer. And seeing as so many other plants in that genus and family do contain such compounds, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

To render the seeds non-toxic, simply grind the seeds and combine into a small amount of warm water. Let it sit and dry to allow the hydrogen cyanide to be released off as gas.

Best of luck!

In Peace,
Wanderer

 

[BeyondCrazy]

Maybe I don't understand your question. Acetone is an aprotic solvent and is miscible with xylene, even with alkaloids in the mix. So, after mixing them how do you plan on seperating them to get your alkaloids out?

The acetone shouldn't react with the alkaloids.

SWIM has done some tests with Acetone and Xylene.
When SWIM adds Xylene to Acetone it all mixes together.
However.... when SWIM adds red dye to the Xylene and Acetone mix, the dye drops to the bottom of the flask.

Same with the extract. SWIM can see the extracted alkaloid colour in the bottom of the flask and so will separate by sucking the top layer (the Acetone) with an eyedropper.

 

[BeyondCrazy]

If you want to use acetone to extract the alkaloids instead of acidified alcohol it should be fine, but wash your seeds first with the xylene. I don't know how well that will work though.

Thank you.
SWIM will try this method if SWIM’s above method doesn’t produce effects.
:d

 

[BeyondCrazy]

Hey there, I know a thing or two about hbwr and solvents. The best way to have a clean, safe, potent, and ill free trip off lsa is to simply do a cold water extraction, add a little lemon or lime juice in a full glass of water.

First you want to scrape any wax or shell of the seed, wash and clean very thoroughly. For that is the main reason you get sick.
Then crush and put in a tea bag or what works best is to do the whole process in a french press. It is a great investment. let it sit for a good 12 hours. the longer the better I think. strain and drink. I have never gotten sick this way. I would usually do 15 to 20 seeds, from a good source, grown in hawaii. great lsd like visuals without much of the paranoia.

Good luck, be safe, feel free to ask any questions.

Also, a safe bet would be to start with 7 to 10 seeds. see how your body reacts at a smaller dose with cold water extraction.

Thanks for the info.
But...... for SWIM half of the fun is experimenting with new extraction techniques - e.g. playing around with solvents/acids etc.

 

[BeyondCrazy]

The principle reason for becoming sick or nauseous with LSA containing plants in the Convolvulaceae family is the presence of cyanogenic glucosides like amygdalin (same compounds which make apple seeds and prunus stones toxic). When the seed is macerated, enzymes in the cell wall mix with the glucosides stored intracellularly, releasing hydrogen cyanide. Cyanide strongly binds to iron in an enzyme complex which allows your cells to use oxygen to create energy (ATP), essentially suffocating and killing the cell. This is why stomachs tend not to like it.

Now, I'm not aware of any confirmed reports of cyanogens being isolated from HBWR seeds, though there are anecdotal reports of it being found on the fuzzy outside layer. And seeing as so many other plants in that genus and family do contain such compounds, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

To render the seeds non-toxic, simply grind the seeds and combine into a small amount of warm water. Let it sit and dry to allow the hydrogen cyanide to be released off as gas.

Best of luck!

In Peace,
Wanderer

That warm water technique sounds like a good idea.... will try that before doing the solvent washes.
Thanks.

 

[Wanderer]

Certainly! I did the same thing for some passiflora extract I made a few years ago. My knowledge was less extensive back then, and after feeling a bit ill from blending fresh foliage, I decided to look into what the cause of that might be.

In Peace,
Wanderer