LSD and Cinnamaldehyde

[LongTimeWaiting]

When you mix LSA and cinnamaldehyde your trip's onset is quicker and it doesn't last as long.
Is it possible to mix LSD and cinnamaldehyde to achieve the same effects? And is it possible to mix LSD and other aldehydes to achieve different effects?

 

[benzyme]

probably not.

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Interesting, I've never heard before about LSA and cinnamaldehyde.

According to the (theoretical) functioning for LSA here:

LSA adducts

...I wouldn't expect it to work for LSD, due to the two ethyl groups at the nitrogen.
But I'm also no chemist...

 

[Gone-and-Back]

Lsa has a basic amide group on it (lysergic acid amide) this allows it to bind to different aldyhides to form new slightly altered ergoline compounds. Lsd does not have the basic amide group, it is lysergic acid diethylamide. There is already something attached to that group that makes it lsd and not lsa.

From my understanding this will prevent it from reacting with aldyhides like Lsa does.

 

[benzyme]

that entry is chock full of conjecture.
The only cited source doesn't even support the context of the sentence it's used in,
as c.paspali enzymatically produces LSH without acetaldehyde as a reagent. It's a side-product of the
DMAT pathway.


and Cinnamylidene-bislysergamide? lol

I honestly don't know why people think adding essential oils to their MGS extracts produces
substituted ergine compounds. Adduct addition occurs after protonation, in the presence of heat.
I know what you're thinkng...that reaction could take place in the stomach; decomposition would occur instantaneously.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I always thought 'Cinnamylidene-bislysergamide' or the bisCinnamyl-lysergamide thing as well to be a complete croque of merde.

BUT I do wonder what the formation equilibrium constant might be for such compounds. Even low amounts of such things being formed in vivo could have unexpected effects. They would be more lipophilic, to start with. They might get picked up by some kind of transporter mechanism. Even if the adducts aren't formed, we still have the already known bioactivities of the aroma molecules. Cinnamal is pretty pokey stuff - it has to be declared if it is present in any medicinal preparations, for example.

The fact remains that we don't know, beyond these anecdotal reports, the effects of aroma compounds in combination with psychedelics. And given the very ephemeral nature of what is happening when a person ingests an LSA-containing extract along with one essential oil or another, it's something of a challenge to find out what, if anything, is going on in there, chemically. Occam's razor is all well and good but what we might need is Occam's (transdermal Raman/FTIR) laser


Certain phenylpropanoids definitely synergize with psychedelics. I have multiple anecdotal instances that could be referred to.

 

[Mindlusion]

all conjecture indeed, and without even a solid basis, as benz pointed out the commonly cited paper doesn`t have anything to do with it.

The suggested reaction is a micheal addition, and a bad one at that, amides (LSA) are totally non-nucleophillic. The only way this could happen in ambient conditions is if it were catalyzed by an unknown enzyme, but as benz pointed out LSH is a product of a completely different pathway.

Indeed, even the relatives of LSH, like methylergometrine, when synthesized in a laboratory are done using the corresponding amines, there are no laboratory conditions in which you can get the amide to react with the carbonyl, especially a substrate as sensitive as lysergic acid.

so there is not even a shred of truth here.. but organic chemistry is unpredictable and often breaks the rules assumed by man, perhaps it could happen at an extremely tiny equilibrium... benz in fact, has the power to lay it all to rest, by running a sample of LSA + aldehyde in HPLC... then again its possible the ionizing spray could even cause the rxn to happen too

 

[LongTimeWaiting]

So, when people post their trip reports about using essential oils with LSA, how much truth is there to them?
Because, I tried LSA and peppermint essential oil last night and achieved nothing but a nasty stomach ache. I put crushed HBWR seeds in a pill along with four drops of oil. Not diluting the essential oil is what I believe to upset my stomach.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

At least try doing a cold water extraction and mixing that with your cooled, fresh peppermint tea.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

LongTimeWaiting]So, when people post their trip reports about using essential oils with LSA, how much truth is there to them?

This is anecdotal data.