LSH / LSI doubts

[Transform]

Short-chain aldehydes are fairly reactive, so I for one would be willing to accept the plausibility of adducts even with something as relatively unreactive as an amide nitrogen. The supporting evidence of the example with acetaldehyde and acetamide seems sound enough and, while the product there resulted from a 2:1 amide to aldehyde ratio, lysergamide itself is bulky enough to limit the stoichiometry to 1:1.

Whether I'll get to test these hypotheses experientially myself remains to be seen.

 

[shilo]

I'm not a chemist. This is about lysergic acid α-hydroxyisopentylamide vs lysergic acid α-hydroxyethylamide I assume. I asked an AI since I'm dumb. Please correct me if this information is inaccurate:

"The dramatic difference in stability between the two adducts comes down to physical crowding, known in chemistry as steric hindrance. When the adduct forms, LSH attaches a small, compact methyl group to the central connecting carbon, which fits comfortably next to the massive lysergic acid backbone and allows the molecule to remain relaxed. In contrast, LSI forces a bulky, branching isobutyl group into that exact same space. The sprawling structure of the isobutyl group physically collides with the rest of the molecule, creating severe internal pressure. This crowding acts like a spring-loaded trap, making LSI so highly strained that the mild warmth and moisture of the mouth cause it to rapidly snap apart, whereas the uncrowded LSH holds together long enough to be absorbed sublingually."

 

[secpropyl]

This is about lysergic acid isovaleraldehyde vs lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide I assume.

Fwiw the proper naming is lysergic acid isopentylamide (not isovaleraldehyde), but the form produced from this theorised LSA/aldehyde adduct has an additional α-hydroxy.

 

[doubledog]

It's really fascinating that these decades long speculations about lysergamide aldehyde adducts are still alive, but still without any real progress.

 

[shilo]

so lysergic acid α-hydroxyisopentylamide, thanks.

 

[secpropyl]

It's really fascinating that these decades long speculations about lysergamide aldehyde adducts are still alive, but still without any real progress.

Progress?
I think that depends who you speak to.
Even kash was on the trail without realising.
He consistently mentioned peppermint & lemon as being crucial parts and now we understand why - they're both ALDH inhibitors.

Tbh I always thought their use as sources of acetaldehyde was unreasonable.

 

[Transform]

Brandy will in fact contain traces of isovaleraldehyde, which itself is also used as a flavouring agent.

I think the 'AI' somewhat overstates the steric crowding in LSHiPe (as we might properly abbreviate the adduct in question].

 

[shilo]

"The Aojiru young barley grass powder supplies extremely high levels of the 3 aldehydes: isovaleraldehyde, valeraldehyde, and crotonaldehyde which condense onto the amide of LSA when stirred for 10 minutes in tartaric acid acidified water, forming a 2oz brew containing Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldamide, Lysergic Acid Valeraldamide, and Lysergic Acid Crotonaldamide for a triple psychedelic combination just as powerful as LSD, but even beyond LSD as mentioned above."

https://grahamhancock.com/stahlm1/

TEK - LSI, Ancient LSD, Secret of the Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA

The book "LSI, Ancient LSD, Secret of the Eleusis Kykeon and Vedic SOMA" is now available at amazon by searching for "LSI book" in the search bar or here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GCH1XGVT/ref=sr_1_1?asc_source=01HDRG07ZP5FJRJVES5GYSHWKK&tag=snx1-20 New: This person on post #250 claims it...

drugs-forum.com

what gemini thinks of the above:

"The author's premise requires three impossible miracles to be true at the same time:
A chemical miracle to bond the molecules in water without a reducing agent.
A thermodynamic miracle to prevent water from immediately destroying that bond.
A biological miracle for a bulky, mono-substituted amide to ignore decades of SAR data and magically outperform LSD."

I found this to be both informative and hilarious.