Lucid Dreaming. Your Thoughts.

[Dr Psychonaut]

Thanks for such an in depth response and I must say your knowledge and experience of exploring different states of consciousness truly fascinates me. I would love to develop these skills of my own and learn to travel to any reality I wish.

Entheogenic travelling is usually accompanied by visual hallucinations and patterns that are characteristic of the substance ingested. Spice, for example, has its unique and breathtaking visual style. Also, the realms visited are more specific to the substance. Once spice has shown you a hyperspatial realm, though... you CAN go and visit there with Lucid Dreaming. As I mentioned before, you can even smoalk spice in a dream. But simply intending to go to hyperspace and teleporting there can work on its own.

I find this intriguing as since using DMT I find myself having very out of the ordinary dreams where I go back into hyperspace and have bizarre very spice-like experiences. I also found this after ketamine use and had some strange dreams where I would visit similar places. I guess one your astral body has been guided somewhere through the aid of DMT or other entheogens it is able to travel back there on it's own during dream sleep.


In regards to what I have read of the astral plane it seems that in OOBE's one is able to travel to any of the 7 levels of the astral plane if one is able to navigate successfully (though these levels are undoubtedly impossible to define subjectively) as well anywhere in this physical realm. I am going to practice lucid dreaming as much as possible and look into methods of practicing astral projection and inducing OOBE's. Thanks for your wise information.

 

[bransondude]

For me, lucid dreaming kinda takes the bang out of the dream. The lucidity is so slippery that often I struggle more with staying in the dream than with becoming or staying lucid. It wakes me up in other words.

Also there is a certain "staging" in my dreams. It's as though there are these stage hands and performers and it's all prearranged according to some unknown director. Once I start to interrupt the scene, I get the sense that the director has yelled "cut" and I'm the only performer who doesn't "cut". In that moment I suppose my conscious mind has taken the role of directing, but that degree of consciousness is limited.

It's as though whomever was directing the stage before has the respect of the "cast" and "crew" and they won't follow my lead. For me, this is the struggle I experience in a lucid dream.

One time, I tried to rise away from the stage. I flew upward and upward, into a ceiling and woke up abruptly before I was able to get out of the scene.

 

[universecannon]

For me, lucid dreaming kinda takes the bang out of the dream. The lucidity is so slippery that often I struggle more with staying in the dream than with becoming or staying lucid. It wakes me up in other words.

Also there is a certain "staging" in my dreams. It's as though there are these stage hands and performers and it's all prearranged according to some unknown director. Once I start to interrupt the scene, I get the sense that the director has yelled "cut" and I'm the only performer who doesn't "cut". In that moment I suppose my conscious mind has taken the role of directing, but that degree of consciousness is limited.

It's as though whomever was directing the stage before has the respect of the "cast" and "crew" and they won't follow my lead. For me, this is the struggle I experience in a lucid dream.

One time, I tried to rise away from the stage. I flew upward and upward, into a ceiling and woke up abruptly before I was able to get out of the scene.

A common problem me and a lot of others have encountered once going lucid is that you can get too excited and wake up. The excitement that grows once you realize your lucid in a dream raises your heart beat, which then starts to take your brain waves out of REM sleep and you quickly wake up. The trick is to not get too excited. act like its no big deal at first and relax. deep breathes really help.. and sitting down to meditate in a dream is AWESOME

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

For me, lucid dreaming kinda takes the bang out of the dream. The lucidity is so slippery that often I struggle more with staying in the dream than with becoming or staying lucid. It wakes me up in other words.

Also there is a certain "staging" in my dreams. It's as though there are these stage hands and performers and it's all prearranged according to some unknown director. Once I start to interrupt the scene, I get the sense that the director has yelled "cut" and I'm the only performer who doesn't "cut". In that moment I suppose my conscious mind has taken the role of directing, but that degree of consciousness is limited.

It's as though whomever was directing the stage before has the respect of the "cast" and "crew" and they won't follow my lead. For me, this is the struggle I experience in a lucid dream.

One time, I tried to rise away from the stage. I flew upward and upward, into a ceiling and woke up abruptly before I was able to get out of the scene.

A common problem me and a lot of others have encountered once going lucid is that you can get too excited and wake up. The excitement that grows once you realize your lucid in a dream raises your heart beat, which then starts to take your brain waves out of REM sleep and you quickly wake up. The trick is to not get too excited. act like its no big deal at first and relax. deep breathes really help.. and sitting down to meditate in a dream is AWESOME

What UC said.

I would add that, if the punch comes out of the dream you are in because you became lucid, then you have to ask yourself if that dream was interesting enough that you wanna go back into it. I find that it isn't so hard to decide to play along again. It only takes a few moments of inattention, and the "director" will take over again and you will likely forget that it is a dream.

Generally, such dreams are not all that amazing, though, and I am happy to leave them. Some of them are down right annoying, and a chance to bone out is seriously welcome.

The key to getting out of a scene that holds little or no interest for you anymore is the teleporting trick I mentioned earlier in this thread. As fun as flying is, it rarely ever gets you where you were intending to go. Other neat things might come up, but the chances of you making it to your destination and still being lucid are slim. When you get lucid and realize that the scene is less than titilating... teleport to a world with more bang. Find a dream world where other lucid dreamers are playing. Nothing adds spice to a lucid dream more than hanging out with other real people and awakened masters, rather than the actors and stage hands in your (or someone else's) staged subconscious plays.

 

[DoctorMantus]

I myself have only been lucid a few time, currently am working on my lucid dreaming, i have my log, and i am hoping to get good enough, so i can smoke spice whenever i want in a dream.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I myself have only been lucid a few time, currently am working on my lucid dreaming, i have my log, and i am hoping to get good enough, so i can smoke spice whenever i want in a dream.

I think people go lucid a LOT more than they are aware of. You could go lucid a dozen times a night and you would never know it because of this amnesic return we have when coming into consciousness here.

Focus on remembering as much as you can as soon as you awake everyday, then turn over and try to remember dreams you might have had in another of your regular sleeping positions... you might be surprised to find that dream recall is tied to the position you were in when you had the dream.

Also, try waking yourself up randomly in the middle of the night and then keeping your mind a bit awake while you let your body fall back to sleep.

Anyway... good luck Dr. Mantus.

 

[SpartanII]

At higher levels, you can meet other dreamers, dream masters, ascended beings, astral project into this world, travel to distant alien worlds, find answers and solutions to waking life issues, learn material you never knew (including actual studying), practice techniques, dialate time, channel novelty from dream worlds into this one etc. etc.

This is the stuff I find the most fascinating about lucid dreaming. In the Castaneda books, Don Juan's friend (who is also a sorcerer) would project his "energy body" or "dreaming body" into consensual reality and was able to interact with people and perform "inconceivable acts" such as flying or teleportation! I dont know if the stories are fiction/partially fiction, or true, but I would think that with enough practice of astral projection/lucid dreaming, if one had enough energy and focused Intent, it could be possible.

If these type of high level lucid dreaming experiences could bore you, than I have no idea what could excite you. Simply being able to experience years of existence in the course of a matter of seconds is enough of an incentive I would think. Qualitatively, an advanced dreamer can be 10's of thousands of years old... or more.

Agreed. Even advanced lucid dreaming barely scratches the surface. Lucid dreaming is the gateway to infinity. Perception may very well be limitless.

 

[komet]

Glad I found this thread. I have been meaning to research a bit about OBE's after some recent events of mine...

In the last few months I have been having what I initially described to myself as nightmares. I would wake up from a dream in my bed, only to realise I was still dreaming, I am lucid, but not fighting the 'plot'. I then get the feeling that there is a presence/ghost in my room with me. I can't see it but I feel it approaching me and I get really scared. Then I feel it hover over my bed like it wants to get inside me (best way I can describe it). I reach out to fight it off but it is like fighting a big heavy sandbag. I fight, scream, swear at it but slowly it wares me out and I submit to it and feel it merging with me. Then voilà, I am awake.

Also I have experienced two occasions where I have just gone to bed and I am in that 'half awake half asleep' state. Then all of a sudden I find myself awake and falling, like I am hovering about 2 foot above the bed and the moment I wake I start falling. You'll think I am crazy, but I actually crash back down to bed with so much force that I feel the mattress bouncing. I don't think I have literally been levitating, probably just my body severely jolting in some way when I wake...I hope.

I am starting to feel I am having some sort of OBE's without actually looking into it. This thread has definitely perked my interest.

 

[bransondude]

In the last few months I have been having what I initially described to myself as nightmares. I would wake up from a dream in my bed, only to realise I was still dreaming, I am lucid, but not fighting the 'plot'. I then get the feeling that there is a presence/ghost in my room with me. I can't see it but I feel it approaching me and I get really scared. Then I feel it hover over my bed like it wants to get inside me (best way I can describe it). I reach out to fight it off but it is like fighting a big heavy sandbag. I fight, scream, swear at it but slowly it wares me out and I submit to it and feel it merging with me. Then voilà, I am awake.

Also I have experienced two occasions where I have just gone to bed and I am in that 'half awake half asleep' state. Then all of a sudden I find myself awake and falling, like I am hovering about 2 foot above the bed and the moment I wake I start falling. You'll think I am crazy, but I actually crash back down to bed with so much force that I feel the mattress bouncing. I don't think I have literally been levitating, probably just my body severely jolting in some way when I wake...I hope.

I am starting to feel I am having some sort of OBE's without actually looking into it. This thread has definitely perked my interest.

I believe you are describing what is called sleep paralysis in the first paragraph. It's described differently from lucid dreaming but the two are related. I have this experience from time to time as well, but I usually don't feel the "presence" that most people feel. Instead when I am half awake and my body doesn't respond to my commands very well, which some people describe as being sat on or pressed down, the heavy sandbag thing. A trick to get out of it is that there is always some small part of your body that will still respond to movement commands from your brain. Apply that motion over and over again (usually by rocking around side to side with the torso) until finally your whole body will respond to commands and you'll be fully awake. The responsive area spreads as you continue the movement. Either that or wait until you fall fully asleep again. Most people find it terrifying, I know I did when I was younger. It just kept happening and I got used to it.

Sometimes when drifting to sleep I get a synesthetic effect at the same time as a "falling" jolt from my body. I see sound, usually like the refrigerator kicking on or a creak in the house.

Man sleep is fascinating.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I am starting to feel I am having some sort of OBE's without actually looking into it. This thread has definitely perked my interest.

Certainly sounds like it. The "sleep paralysis" BransonDude describes is a state from which you can WILD (wake induced lucid dream) or astral project, if you learn a simple exit technique.

However, the kind of sleep paralysis that evokes terror and a sense of another presence in the room is considered something to be wary of in most shamanic traditions. In Jamaica they believe it is the duppies (ghosts or negative spirits) trying to possess you. Whether you buy into the spiritualist view of it or not, it is unsettling. The cure is to protect yourself spiritually. Be careful not to invite any negative entities into your space. Don't engage in negative activities or emotions. Reconnect to higher and more loving energies. Dark presences can be cast away in the moment by connecting to the more divine and loving aspects of the universe and channeling that. Fighting fire with fire often just makes things worse.

Studying lucid dreaming more in depth would be useful for you. And, once you manage to achieve lucidity, seek out dream teachers. They are nearly always superior to anyone you could find in this world. You can even find future versions of yourself to teach you...

All the best.

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

Further to my previous posts I have come a bit of a way in my lucid dreaming since and had a good few since then. I tried galantamine and choline as a supplement and was amazed by it's effects having 2 lucid dreams the first night. As I had read though the chance of experiencing sleep paralysis when taking galantamine is much higher. This isn't necessarily bad though, as it can be turned into a positive as Stephen LaBerge teaches how to turn it into a lucid dream. One can do this by simply relaxing into it, and visualising one having a separate 'dream body' and climbing out of one's physical body into the dreamworld.


I had success with this when I felt strange forces pushing and pulling at my essence while paralysed. Instead of fighting it I tried this 'two bodies technique' and immediately found myself in the most beautiful vivid lucid dream. As a result I am no longer fearful of sleep paralysis. It does intrigue me though all the folklore I've heard of the sensations in sleep paralysis being caused by dark energies/entities, as for me it certainly feels like malicious forces trying to scare me until I realise what is happening, after which they disappear.


I would recommend the galantamine and choline combination (though I am no advocating the use of it, if one can lucid dream through MILD's and WILD's alone there's no need) for any serious lucid dreamer who has trouble becoming lucid as frequently as they like. I took 4mg combined with 200mg choline and found this to more than do the trick. I'm going to try adding melatonin at the start of the night though to see if it helps getting back to sleep as I found the galantamine to be quite stimulating.

 

[onethousandk]

Very interesting thread. I've always been the type to forget my dreams more than I remember them, even before I started smoking weed I rarely recalled what was going on in my mind while I slept. I'll be curious to try a few techniques in here and see what happens. You'll have to forgive my scientific mind from coming out but I'm very, very curious about being able turn dreams into tangible reality. I think if a dream meeting with another sleeper or an OBE could be confirmed it would do wonders for proving the existence outside the material to the population at large.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Give it a shot onethousandk.

Not remembering dreams is the norm. Even for skilled dreamers.

It takes a great deal of intent and practice to increase your dream recall to high levels, but going from little or none to some is usually quite simple.

Plenty of skeptics have gone on to become proficient lucid dreamers. And, you'd be surprised at how many of science's greatest leaps forward came to people in dreams. Reading the autobiographies of some of the giants in the field, one comes across the whole "I woke up from a dream, and it was clear as day" motif quite a bit.

Developing an experiment that could prove shared dreaming or astral projection scientifically could be tricky, but should not be impossible. Ideally, you would get some skilled dream masters to allow you to place them in some kind of controlled sleeping situation and then confirm their oneirological findings.

Aside from the fact that masters and people who have already confirmed such things for themselves have no reason to be interested in proving it to scientists who tend to find ways to turn such skills into government owned assets... it would take a level of control that even advanced dreamers might not be able to produce with any regularity.

The intelligence community's heavily funded remote viewing programs were successful because they could teach the techniques to soldiers relatively easily. True masters tend to not be soldier material.

Furthermore, it is hard to dream with people you never met. As such, shared dreaming always comes up against the claim that the two dreamers could have worked out their stories in advance. (though what the many people who report having shared dreams have to gain from such a charade, I have yet to figure out)

Personally, I could care less if such subjects ever pass the muster of scientific validation. Just like I don't care if fundamentalist Christians ever recognize that the Earth is not 6000 years old.

It is probably best if certain unscrupulous types (people who fund research) don't believe in these things. Dream yogis tend to have no interest in becoming covert intelligence assets trying to hack into people's minds to unearth secrets... or astral project into vaults.

 

[great_blue]

This thread was a great read for me as i've become more interested in lucid dreaming recently.. I can recall my dreams most mornings. usually one, but sometimes i can recall 2 separate dreams from the previous night.. I've even had precognitive dreams on one or 2 occasions..

I can only recall maybe 2-3 actual lucid dreams i've ever had.. one was a sexual fantasy that ended pretty abruptly and the other i was attempting to fly.. It must've been partly lucid as i did not have full control.. I may have been trying to escape someone so in realizing i was dreaming i decided flying was the best thing to try..
at first i could fly with more ease, then i found myself losing my 'ability.' i would try and fly to the next rooftop but i would struggle and sink mid-flight, only to make it to the edge of the roof, holding on as i try and shimmy my body up there.. As this happened i wondered why it was happening due to the fact i was dreaming so it should be no problem. and i asked myself this..

I think there are more to my dreams than i realize.. maybe so, maybe not.. but there is almost always a recurring theme in 99% of my dreams i recall.. and that theme is usually danger(ous). eg. someone is trying to kill me, hurt me, chase me etc.. or a newer one was a mass sickness.. the entire city contracting some crazy illness that resulted in quarantines and rioting. I am growing tired of these constant nightmares and want to find the source/meaning of them.. that or become lucid to stop them entirely..

I moved to AZ for a tech school a couple years back and while i was there i would have these very intense vivid nightmares.. but the scary part wasnt necessarily the dream.. during all of this i became so frightened that i would get out of bed in a panic and try to desperately escape my room in the apartment by trying to open the window and escape outside..
I would come to and wake up as i was fiddling at the window. very out of breath, increased heart rate and general sense of danger would be with me.. after calming down for a minute i would go back to sleep.. that was the most intense episode and it happened 2 or 3 times while i was there.. hasnt happened again after that, nor before my move..

i sleep very regularly and need to use ear plugs as the sound of a pin would wake me.. I definitely also find my cannabis use directly relates to the amount of dream recall i am able to conjure.. i usually go through cycles of use, as someone else in the thread previously stated that it is too comfortable and alluring of a plant to use moderately.. :roll:
but i've been doing pretty good with keeping it to once a day, usually before bed. and only takes me 1-2 tokes.. i find this doesnt really affect my recall. only continuous, heavy use which i am starting to slip into again. but hey, its harvest season, theres lots to try lol..

but today was the start of my first dream journal as i jotted down my dream onto a scratch piece of paper. i will transfer it to a notebook or something of the like when i pick one up..

with all of that said it really ceases to amaze me the kind of content i encounter on the nexus.. I spend hours upon hours reading threads and posts about all kinds of things.. i am fascinated by most of them and are lucky to have a nexus-point with all of this information gathered and constructed by like-minded people with the capacity to "wake up" and see there is more to consciousness than the 9-5ers and conservative people care to acknowledge..
sure we study the body, and there are many biology/anatomy books to show us this.. but the minds content is where the mystery lies. sure the physical brain is there but consciousness is subjective. its the things we cant measure or prove that have me engaged and seem the most "real."

but enough rant. i will continue to prepare myself for lucid dreaming. I like the idea of "reality checks." i will have to develop my own.. does anyone have any suggestions for beginners for reality checks and keeping dream journals?

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

does anyone have any suggestions for beginners for reality checks and keeping dream journals?

Generally just stopping what you are doing, looking around your space skeptically, and asking yourself "Is this a dream?" a few times a day is enough. More often can be more effective, but the basic concept is just to innoculate your consciousness with the idea that you might actually be dreaming... no matter how real your current situation seems to be.

If you begin to suspect that you might actually be dreaming, good secondary reality checks include:

1) Turning the lights on and off. Often light switches will not work... or not work properly in dreams.

2) Play with any electronic device. Not just lights, but computers, stereos, mobile phones... anything electric actually, will behave strangely. Displaying impossible characters on their LED screens, doing things you absolutely didn't tell them to do, simply refusing to work etc.

3) Read something. If you read something in a dream, stop, go back, and read the same thing again. Usually the words will have changed, or even begin to swim on the page in front of you.

4) Do double and triple takes on anything odd. Observe something, turn away, and observe the same thing again.

5) Look at the palms of your hands. This old standard from Carlos Casteneda works like a charm. If you are on the verge of a lucid dream, looking at your hands will provide a very clear confirmation most of the time. I won't say what you will see, but rather let anyone who attempts this post what they have seen as a kind of test.

6) Attempt levitation. Levitate yourself, or an object in your presence. If you can do it (to any degree) you are probably dreaming. I am so familiar with lucid dreaming, that I don't bother with tests and just skip right to levitation and flying with confidence. Whatever you do, though, don't jump off a building or out a window! If you can't levitate a few inches off of solid ground, why would you think you could fly?

There are many many great books about lucid dreaming. Reading some of them can only help. I would upload some here, but i don't want to violate any rules. There is, however, a decent book on the Nexus already (in the Files section) here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Books/General/Exploring The World Of Lucid Dreaming.pdf

That pdf is as good a place as any to start.

As for keeping a dream journal, just do it. Buying the book will, on its own, increase your recall. Writing in it will do so as well. After a while, recording dreams every morning will become tiresome and tedious, though. You will need to develop a shorthand. Simply writing down keywords and important details is usually enough to trigger your recall.

Big tip: Don't move an inch when you awake. Stay in the exact position you were sleeping in and try to remember your dreams from there. There is some dream recall tied to muscle memory. When you get to the point you can't remember any more sequences, roll over and adopt another position you normally sleep in. You will probably be able to recall another dream sequence.

Good luck... and have fun.

 

[great_blue]

Thanks H.F. very concise advice.. im sure itd be a valuable read to anyone interested in the subject.. I love how the reality checks you can practice are, well, practical and not obvious. they can be done anywhere.. also, thank you for the pdf.

its interesting how your sleeping position is tied to your dreams.. this carlos fella seems pretty interesting also. i will most definitely read more into him and his work. if he has a good book i will find it..

i am excited to make this happen once again.. thanks for the luck!

 

[pau]

(as a result of practicing awareness and presence while falling asleep) we begin to experience awareness in dreams, recoginzing dreams to be dreams while we are still sleeping ... dreams will arise as helpful friends to manifesting our entire dimension of our existence and its primordial awareness:

(First, by) recognizing dreams to be dreams while we are yet asleep, we become aware of the illusory nature of the dream state, and during the waking state, we become more conscious of the illusory nature of everything in daily life. Second, we are no longer the slaves of dreams and sleep: while sleeping we tend to be conditioned by dreams through the same factors that condition us in everyday life. So, by means of this practice, dreaming becomes a way to discover true knowledge and to develop primordial awareness.

-Namkhai Norbu, The Cycle of Day and Night

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Thanks H.F. very concise advice.. im sure itd be a valuable read to anyone interested in the subject.. I love how the reality checks you can practice are, well, practical and not obvious. they can be done anywhere.. also, thank you for the pdf.

its interesting how your sleeping position is tied to your dreams.. this carlos fella seems pretty interesting also. i will most definitely read more into him and his work. if he has a good book i will find it..

i am excited to make this happen once again.. thanks for the luck!

NP

I see I spelled his name wrong in the post above (can't be bothered to proofread all my posts), hehehe. But, you should seriously check out his work. Carlos Castaneda even wrote a book called The Art Of Dreaming. It may not be his greatest book, but it is an awesome and fun read.

I would start at the beginning, though. You will probably want to read quite a few of his tales of shamanism and Yaqui sorcery, so keeping the stories in chronological order is a good idea. The first book is not as wild as the 2nd - 5th, but it is worth reading. If you wanna jump in full stream, then you can start with A Separate Reality (book 2). I would advise reading at least a couple of the books before tackling Art Of Dreaming, if only so that the way of the man of knowledge is already somewhat familiar to you.

A guy named Rick Mace did a cool condensed version of the Castaneda stuff. He took only the words of the master shaman Don Juan, in much the same way you find these little pamphlets of the New Testament with only JC's words. It is surprisingly cogent and like a streamlined lesson. I guess you can find it online for free. (usually in html format)

 

[SpartanII]

does anyone have any suggestions for beginners for reality checks and keeping dream journals?

When you do the checks, it's easy to just look around and assume you are not dreaming, so really try to genuinely consider the possibility. As for dream journals, I recommend not using traditional diaries as they tend to fill up quite fast (if you actually put the work in) which can get expensive- instead get a ringed binder in which you can attach a bunch of note book paper so you can remove and add more paper. (You can also draw representations of your dream, as this helps capture different elements that are difficult to put into words.)

Alternatively, if you find your writing hard to read or it wakes you up too much to go back to sleep after a dream entry, you can get a cheap mini recorder and record the main theme immediately upon awakening, then later when you wake up for the day you can fill in the details by writing it down on paper in your journal. This is more work, but is a way to capture more details.

I would start at the beginning, though. You will probably want to read quite a few of his tales of shamanism and Yaqui sorcery, so keeping the stories in chronological order is a good idea. The first book is not as wild as the 2nd - 5th, but it is worth reading. If you wanna jump in full stream, then you can start with A Separate Reality (book 2). I would advise reading at least a couple of the books before tackling Art Of Dreaming, if only so that the way of the man of knowledge is already somewhat familiar to you.

I totally agree. I've read them all and found that the 2-5th books really inspired me to read the rest. The first one is just a bit too analytical for me but you probably will want to read it at some point. There is a strange magical, otherworldly feeling that many people get as they read the books- they really pull you in and speak to your Spirit.

 

[great_blue]

thanks so much guys, i've ordered the second book in the series and cant wait to get it.. lately i cant get enough of reading.. again, thank you..