Magnetic Motor Obsession. Join in!

[Aegle]

Ska

This is a fascinating thread indeed, maybe try and build your own replication of a magnetic motor? It's really important to always keep an open mind and question everything, if you can get it to work practically than how can the potential be denied. Best of luck...


Much Peace nd Happiness

 

[benzyme]

benzy and ska - maybe check out this book called "The physics of the primary state of matter" - by Karl Shappeller

got a link? I'll check it out.
it's supposedly written in the 1930's

 

[Phlux-]

The Physics of the Primary State of Matter.pdf

The Physics of the Primary State of Matter.pdf download from 4shared

www.4shared.com

 

[benzyme]

thanks.
I stand corrected; it was initially written in 1942.
some of these guys were really ahead of their time. I'll definitely give this
a read

 

[benzyme]

hmm...reading into this, it just seems like an antiquated reinterpretation of classical physics, using the language of alchemy. ever since this publication, people have developed elaborate computational models and ways of describing why it should work, yet every model constructed hasn't worked.

the author states on pg. 143:

A scientist once said to the author: "Electricity first, then magnetism; no magnetism without electric current." This is obviously incorrect. The sides of the ship can become magnetic due to riveting.

what the author doesn't mention is that magnetism (flux) cannot exist without the movement of electrons; applied current may not necessarily be needed to drive magnetic flux, but current in the form of transferred electrons is. maybe this is what the author means by ether-vacuum(?)

and apparently since this publication, the theoretical behavior of polar flux in bar magnets has been revised in 2006:

 

[benzyme]

here, man..merry belated christmas
if I had the time and resources, I'd experiment with this model. elegantly simple and practical.
others have apparently reproduced the Bedini motor, there are a few youtube vids out there.

Bedini Motors

bedinimotors.blogspot.com

John Bedini

A Tribute to the Legacy of John Bedini's work in the Energy Sciences. Learn about Free Energy, Monopole Motor Magnetic Fields, Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, and more.

johnbedini.net

http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm

No laws of physics or thermodynamics are violated in the method and device of the present invention, and conservation of energy rigorously applies at all times. Nonetheless, by operating as an open dissipative system not in thermodynamic equilibrium with the active vacuum, the system can permissibly receive available excess energy from a known environmental source and output more energy to a load than must be input by the operator alone. As an open system not in thermodynamic equilibrium, this new and unique motor can tap in on back EMF to energize itself, loads and losses simultaneously, fully complying with known laws of physics and thermodynamics.

 

[Phlux-]

i made a few bendini circuits to harvest back emf - it would kick ass if both batteries could be replaced by caps and have the device manually started - and have the fan pass magnets over coils then driven thru a joule theif to another load

There are a few errors in that book for the reasons stated in the intro and its age - thats to be expected
but the first definitions section changes ones interpretation of the following chapters

benz it vaguely off topic but have you seen the john hutchinson effect - or read up on ed leedskalin (coral castle) ?

 

[benzyme]

never heard of em, gonna have to check them out.
I have heard of the GEET engine, but unfortunately, that requires gasoline.
AFAIK, the Stirling engine and turbocharged diesel engine, are currently the most efficient thermal engines

 

[Phlux-]

and stirling engines are fun as hell to build- if only they could produce more torque

 

[benzyme]

definitely hear that

 

[embracethevoid]

The thing is the first-law applies only to closed/isolated systems. So a simple closed system will never ever be "perpetual". Instead of saying "NO, just NO", let's concentrate on the REAL physics - that which does not defy thermodynamics but applies it in such a way as to produce some form of self-sustaining motion.

However that does not reflect the nature of the universe itself. We do not know what is beyond our event horizon even though we can clearly see the very edge every single night of our lives.

Likewise while entropy increases with time, that does not mean that energy itself is not limitless in supply. Biological life is quite the striking example of a semi-perpetual motion machine.

It seems that if you are to engineer a successful perpetual motion machine, like life, it must adapt and find novel ways to make use of the "waste" heat in some way, shape or form.

On Earth we have a simple demonstration of this: we breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide, trees vice versa. Through this open system heat energy is controlled in such a way as to produce continous motion in all living creatures. Yes, we need food and water, but that's all part of the game. Our poop feeds trees, we eat trees. So in essence by eating our refined poop we have a viable form of perpetual motion.

What "perpetual motion machine" builders try to do is analogous to creating a human and telling them "no food or water for you, now run around this 400m circuit for eternity kthx".

 

[dromedary]

The thing is the first-law applies only to closed/isolated systems. So a simple closed system will never ever be "perpetual". Instead of saying "NO, just NO", let's concentrate on the REAL physics - that which does not defy thermodynamics but applies it in such a way as to produce some form of self-sustaining motion.
[...]
It seems that if you are to engineer a successful perpetual motion machine, like life, it must adapt and find novel ways to make use of the "waste" heat in some way, shape or form.

I think you're being needlessly apologetic of the side of the argument that was calling us 'sheeple' not so long ago for asserting the invariability of the thermodynamic laws. If we loosen the assumption of a closed system and open ourselves to the possibility of collecting energy from the outside world, as you have done, then a 'perpetual motion machine' becomes almost trivially simple.

You could engineer a cleverly geared wheel with all the rare magnets and frictionless surfaces you want and have it harvest energy from the environment by attaching it to a whopping great solar panel. Or windmill. Or tidal generator. Or geothermal collector. The contraption as a whole would generate enough energy to keep the wheel turning perpetually, for most intents and purposes, but it would be extremely disingenuous to claim that the wheel you made has anything to do with it. It's all in how the energy is harvested - a fundamentally different focus for the argument.

The Bedini motor is an interesting idea because it raises the idea of collecting energy from the earth's magnetic field, but Bedini himself is nuts. His other inventions include: a little box that allegedly creates a 3D "holographic" sound environment replicating the environment that the sound was recorded in, using only a monophonic input and any pair of speakers, and an "electromagnetic bath" that makes your CDs sound better and DVD picture more crisp. It would be funny if he weren't selling this borderline-fraudulent trash to people who don't know any better.

Though none of the above discredits the efficacy of the Bedini motor, now that Bedini himself has conceded that it does not violate any physical laws it becomes much less interesting. Harvesting energy from the earth's magnetic field is not new. It has largely been ignored because the amounts of energy available are exceptionally weak compared to other natural sources. You could try to collect it up over a large area (Tesla tried this with some success), but then you run into problems with the 2nd law - entropy. Collecting up energy takes energy - less energy than the device harvests, perhaps, and you may even be able to get a kind of 'perpetual motion' out of it, but if you suppose that you could build it well enough that it would last as long as the earth has electromotive force to be harvested then it is only fair to suppose that you could also build, say, a tidal generator that could last as long as the earth has tidal energy to harvest, and the tidal generator can produce far more energy.

Magnetic motors are undoubtedly neat toys and great science experiments, but as with the Bedini motor they are basically novelties, neither discovering a new source of energy nor any more effective way of harvesting it than a specialised generator would. The fact that most of these machines include both a generator part and a part that is both powered by the generator and, to a degree, powers it, is just a diversion. An inefficiency. That's all.

 

[SKA]

I saw some simple, other designs that suggested the use of Magnetic shielding materials.
Appearantly MU metal has such properties.

I was wondering. I read somewhere that Pyrolytic Graphite repells magnetic fields by bending off
the magnetic field lines. Does that mean that Diamagnetic materials such as Pyrolytic Graphite
& Bismuth can be used to shield off magnetic fields?

I guess this is worth a little experiment since I can get Bismuth, Magnets & fluxdetectors.
If anyone can tell me where I can buy Pyrolytic Graphite, please let me know.



If you had a hollow, copper drive shaft filled with Bismuth or Pyrolytic Graphite it
would float in mid air if it was suspended in a octagonal tunnel of magnets. This could
be applied to the drive shaft in the Ferriswheel or any design, and would completely eliminate friction.

Many simple designs that do not work because their attracting magnets can't escape eachothers
pull & their deflecting magnets resist being brought closer to eachother can be made to work
by adding magnetic shields in the right places.

 

[SKA]

Currently I've become more intrigued with Magnetic shielding.
Magnetic repulsion wheels usually don't work because the force
required to push the North(or South)-poles of stator magnets &
rotor magnets near eachother is equal to the force with which
they repell eachother.

Magnetic shielding can cancel out the repelling force that
resists the stator- & rotor-magnets being brough closer to
eachother, so that the repelling force pushing them away
from eachother is allways greater.

This video explains it well:

This is what I want to build a protoype of now.

MU-Metal is a material that has Magnetic Shielding properties as is
clearly demonstrated in this video:

Just hope I can aquire a bunch of MU-metal plates(from Harddrives) without
spending too much money. I might need 8 or 16 of them. I just don't know
where I can buy MU-metal. Anyone? Maybe I'll look around for old, broken
hardrives to harvest the MU-metal plates.

If anyone has access to MU-metal or lots of old harddrives & some time to
spare, please do feel free to build this shileded, magnetic wheel.



As a side Note: MU-metal clearly blocks magnetic fields pretty effectively.
According to Wikipedia "Permalloy" is also a good shielder of magnetic
field lines, allthough all day I haven't been able to access the Perm-
alloy Wikipedia article. Can anyone try and see if it is accesable to them?



PS:
I'm having trouble accessing many websites today. Anyone else experience
this today? Earlier today I had problems connecting to youtube and since
about 10 minutes ago I cannot access both Google.com % Wikipedia.org.
And when I can access google I cannot access any of it's links.
Anyone else had/having trouble with this?

 

[unansweredquestions]

to all you scientiest out there; try not to take his post seriously. i realise it has no merit. its just a mind fart really.

HOWEVER, could you not utilise gravity? i mean, the earth revolves around the sun...thats a perpetual motion of sorts? (althought im assuming technically it isnt)

i suppose, it continues because it has no resistance in the vacuum of space. once you tried to harvest energy you'd cause fristion of some degree and itd fail?

who knows, just a random thought. I think for now we should stick to fision. Maybe get really proficient at it, create our own supernova/black hole and get a load of machines to circle it and collect us some cheap energy. :d

a post above discussed utilising the earths magnetic field....why not the suns? or maybe even a black hole could be possible one day?

 

[Citta]

HOWEVER, could you not utilise gravity? i mean, the earth revolves around the sun...thats a perpetual motion of sorts? (althought im assuming technically it isnt)

i suppose, it continues because it has no resistance in the vacuum of space. once you tried to harvest energy you'd cause fristion of some degree and itd fail?

The earth does not revolve around the sun in perpetual motion, as the orbit is decaying, albeit incredibly slow with essentially unmeasurable effects because of the incredible intervals of time that need be involved. Not even in the sun's lifespan will earth's orbit decay significantly, i.e it won't get significantly closer to the sun. So you could say somewhat loosely that it is almost perpetual motion, but just almost - the earth is slowly losing energy over time.

 

[Godspark]

[youtube]

 

[benzyme]

:lol:

 

[Citta]

Haha, Homer got that right!

 

[spaceshuttle]

ah man, cant believe i only just found this thread. iv been pondering on this subject for months. im a mechanical engineering student so i could certainly help with some CAD drawings of cogs and parts


id probably be able to set up a 3d simulation in autodesk inventor