Manske Second pass. Is it safe?

[pareidolia-25]

Hi everyone, so I performed a Manske using 200G of harmala seeds using the procedure listed below.

Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

After each salt addition to precipitate the hydrochlorides (step 13)I saved the water and rebasified it to collect a second pass extraction. I ran the process 3 times and ended up with a about a gram of beige looking second pass product which is more or less identical looking to freebase harmalas. It is my understanding that the Manske is intended to separate the Harmine and Harmaline from the alkaloids Visicine vasicinone which may be toxic and some report to induce nausea and other unpleasant effects. I would think that the second pass product would contain most of the alkaloids that have been removed from the first pass as well as some left over harmine and harmaline. I know that crude harmala extract has some concentration of these alkaloids and is safe to consume, my question is: would it be safe to consume the second pass extract seeing on that it must contain a much higher ratio of Visicine and vasicinone to Harmine and Harmaline. If anyone has any insight or experience please share.

 

[Jees]

Hi,
I've tried to rebasify manske liquid after the needles were removed, but all that crashed out under base was a slime, I could not collect it really. I call it a day with manske liquids and get rid of it all. If you were able to collect, that might indicate that a portion of harmine&harmaline did not needle-out in the first pass. And that they formed in the second pass to collect. Just an idea.

The tek you refer to speaks of 100 to 120 gr NaCl salt per 1000gr of liquid, personally I find that too low, that might cause harmalas to remain dissolved in the manske liquid, which you might find back in the second pass. For 10 to 12% to work great you should have a high concentration of harmalas. If you aim at 20% salt, much more success is guaranteed to make needles of nearly all harmalas present in the first pass. Numbers of 25% nacl salt is not unheard of. It is actually no goal to re-use the manske liquid, don't overdo things. Get it all in one pass is my suggestion.
Happy trials :thumb_up:

 

[Jagube]

I've tried recovering stray harmalas from my manske supernatants.

Sometimes this does recover something. But in my last manske I got perfect, long needles and didn't recover anything from the supernatant. I would agree with Jees - get the parameters (concentration of harmalas and NaCl) right and get it all out in the first pass. It may take some trial and error at first, but once you've got it down, keep at what works for you.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Visicine

Just to clarify here, the alkaloid is called vasicine and the above mis-spelling seems to have originated from a typo made by - of all people - Alexander Shulgin, who appears to have confused it with viscine, an alkaloid found in mistletoe.

Shulgin also ran some tests on Syrian rue and found that vasicine and vasicinone were present in only trace quantities so in that respect your experiment should be safe enough. Hopefully you won't implode from the frustration of dealing with harmala sludge...

 

[pareidolia-25]

Thanks a lot everyone for your clarification. I actually went low on the salting (100G - 120G) because I was afraid of salt contamination. What crashed out was beige freebase that looks identical to the first pass Manske with the exception of a little discoloration because it has not been cleaned up as much. Luckily there was no sludge present at all.

What I understood from "downwardsfromzero" is that this stuff should be safe for consumption given that the presence of the other 2 toxic alkaloids, vasicine and vasicinone, would be minuscule? is that right?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

What I understood from "downwardsfromzero" is that this stuff should be safe for consumption given that the presence of the other 2 toxic alkaloids, vasicine and vasicinone, would be minuscule? is that right?

Yes. And it's extremely likely vasicine and vasicinone won't precipitate in the Manske process anyhow.