Maybe its about the plants .......not us....

[Felnik]

what if our experience in hyperspace is just part of the life cycle of plant consciousness?

Perhaps we are like the bee pollinating the flower.
Maybe our role in this is to provide some kind of completion
of the collective plant consciousness higher functions. Maybe we are a bridge of some kind between plant and animal or some kind of catalyst for unknown higher plant functioning.
Is it a final stage in some kind of plant neurogenesis?

I had an experience that was my first clue to this. I was witness to some kind of chemical life cycle during my trip today. There was a spectacular joining of different plant chemicals that played out like a passionate Shakespearean love story. It was definetly not about me. My vape was jam packed with spice and caapi leaf. It was when I added the autumn olive extract that came from a salt extraction that changed everything. After one big hit the passionate drama ensued something needed to be completed I was just the host.

It was like something profound happened in my body the overwhelming desire for more and more spice, I was simply a pawn in some kind of chemical love story. They wanted to unite in a spectacular fireworks display within my body and mind. I was just a bystander to something very primal taking place.
It was like caapi autumn olive and dmt came togethor like long lost friends meeting in some kind of drama filled ecstasy. It was amazing and ran its course in just a few minutes and it was over . There was a definite sense that something was completed, something beyond myself and exclusively plant in nature.

I have experienced this type of thing many times before but it was the first time I understood it in a way I never have before. Its the plants, The plants !! thats the common thread of all of our experiences. They show us everything and anything. they create using our thoughts and fears. They show us archetypes passed down through mans long interaction with plants throughout history, they rememeber. Its important to them to keep us envolved in this. We are part of some kind of working plant animal consciousness system.

I think the plants know us better than we know ourselves.

Its interesting to think about how long plants have been on the earth before we showed up.


p.s I dont know anything

 

[dreamer042]

I've heard it theorized that perhaps the plants invented mammals to move their seeds about, I suspect that may be a lot closer to the truth of the matter than we know.

or as Dennis Mckenna says:

You monkeys only think you are running the show

 

[hixidom]

That is a very cool idea. It reminds me of the zombie-ant-fungus Ophiocordyceps unilateralis.

I think that the basic structure of concsiousness is a feedback loop. To be conscious, a being must experience, react, and repeat. So if our using DMT is part of plant consciousness, then some effect of DMT use must somehow come back around to the plants, possibly providing plants with some sort of "information" that I presume would be used to direct evolution, perhaps toward more powerful psychedelic chemicals. In other words, if the experience induced by DMT belongs to the original plants, then information about the experience must somehow return to the plant so that the plant can react accordingly.

I'm tempted to apply your logic to other scenarios, not to make fun, but to explore the role of experience in the manifestation of consciousness. For example, if I become ill from a viral infection, are the resulting experiences a manifestation of the virus' consciousness? Is the experiential result of eating chocolate a manifestation of the chocolate's consciousness (or that of the cocoa plant)? The feeling of warmth from the sun: Is that the sun becoming conscious through me?

Given that every aspect of consciousness results from inanimate objects, what does it really mean for me to be "conscious", and what does it mean for something to be "inanimate"?

Very psychedelic idea. Great OP Felnik.

 

[nen888]

..i like this idea Felnik, and resonate with it..

i think we are part of the Plan of the Plants..
..elaborate, bipedal seed dispersal mechanisms..
.

 

[jamie]

doesnt really make sense to me tbh to focus on one level of species(plants) instead of view this as a whole integrated gaian system. I dont think the plants are in charge..or the animals are in charge..or fungus is in charge etc..I think gaia is in charge. I think it's about the gaian system, and on another level about the solar system..the galaxy etc.

It has to be more complicated than just being about the plants..but this is just my opinion..

..otherwise why would animals also contain DMT and other psychedelics?..and what about people who are part of tryptamine toad cults? Where does that fit in?

I do think that one role that psychedelics play in the gaian system is sort of like interspecies pheremones.

I think that culture and mytholody etc are real things..and that they live, grow and evolve..they are non organic morphogenetic entities..and we cultivate them with our dreams..we dream them by dreaming our world. We dream our culture..we dream our mythos..and I think that culture plays an epigenetic role within the environment..it is very much like RNA..our culture is the mediator between us and the environment, and our culture is then responsible for the expression of the environment though us. We can burn a forest or we can preserve a forest..we can build skyscrapers or we can grow a food forrest...we can burn fossil fuels forever and pollute the atmosphere or we can focus on greener energy sources..there are so many potential ways for our immediate environment to be expressed by our hand, and it is culture defines our collective vision.

I think these plant and animal based neuroactive chemicals are like little communication crystals that put us into some deeper level of communication with the planetetay and cosmic ecosystem and that then has a role as mediator between humanity and the type of culture that results...

The planet is talking to us.

Hey, I figured this out at time in my life where I could smoke a pillowcase of cannabis is just a couple weeks and I always had a bag of mushrooms in my pocket..so take this is being just the words of a man very very thoroughly baked.

 

[3rdI]

Hey, I figured this out at time in my life where I could smoke a pillowcase of cannabis is just a couple weeks and I always had a bag of mushrooms in my pocket..so take this is being just the words of a man very very thoroughly baked.

:lol:

 

[Felnik]

At the root level plants are responsible for our access to
These realms . It makes sense that there is something
In it for them . Perhaps they are the gate keepers
To a larger universal higher or even lower functioning
Interconnected consciousness that's innate in all living organisms.

when I'm speaking of plants here I am referring to
A collective Gaian consciousness of some kind .

I think the plants are the key to understanding this.
As humans we still have no clue what role we play in the natural system.

We are one expression of nature and are part of some kind of fractalized
Collection of systems. Are we the ultimate expression of nature?
I don't think so .


It would make sense that dmt is the bridge between plants and animals

 

[Infectedstyle]

I thought it was about the molecule, the atoms. The DMT being a living consciousness that spreads through life. Originally born in the waters. Helping us communicate with all the other molecules in our body. Including serotonin, dopamine and loads of hormones. Perhaps.

Why did you add autumn olive extracts anyway?

Maybe it constituted a chemical change. It allowed for a novel chemical to develop in your body. Or simply a meeting of spirit in your biochemical vessel.

It doesn't seem unlikely to me that this could be the case. But i am certain it would only be one side of a coin.. or better yet, one side of a 64-sided D&D dice.


Edit: thinking about this speculated theory. It seemed reasonable to suggest that Intraspirit communication between different molecules would tranalte in the physical world as electron swapping. In this restrained system, there is no spirit communion without electron swapping.

The only way to share information from long distance. Like the well-tested plant communication that happens at a distance. Considering one molecule is one spirit. DMT being a molecule that is spread all throughout the biological world. A change in the spirit of the DMT will affect all the lifeforms it inhabits.

 

[universecannon]

Interesting thread

I definitely resonate with a lot of that. I think because of our symbiotic origins we are, in some sense, a plant/mammal hybrid. The plant biochemistry that was flooding our bodies for millions of years has been known to influence DNA transcription, alter hormones, brain activity, the endocrine system, and countless other things on an unimaginably complex level. We moved seeds around, and they payed us back with yummy rewards rich in incredible biochemistry. We literally can't survive without them. We would starve, suffocate, etc. Those crazy bastards are so clever they even figured out how to eat the frigging suns rays for energy 0.0

Have you ever brokenthrough while out in the woods staring at the plants? They come alive. Its unbelievable and doesn't download into language the world that opens up. And then of course there is these global/cosmic oneness experiences that bring the mystery up a notch

I think the strict divisions we make between species is in a sense arbitrary or illusory..its a seamless interwoven whole. Its like distinguishing an organelle or a cell as being separate from the others around it. We are nodes in this web network. Our skin isn't a border: Stuff is coming in and going out of us all the time, like a semi-permeable biochemical soup.

This sort of thing is perhaps why a high % of astronauts reported having a very intense and heart opening experience looking at the earth from space... the fact that it is a single unified whole just doesn't fully register when you're immersed in it like a fish in water and stuck in your hum-drum reality tunnel. Tuned into channel Mundane


p.s. This is an interesting article on plant communication that i saw recently

http://disinfo.com/2013/05/how-plants-help-each-other-grow-by-near-telepathic-communication/

 

[Felnik]

Yes very good universecannon . It's an interesting perspective you describe .
These illusions of separateness seem embedded in our view of the world.
I think we are all stuck in limited perspectives based on so many things including
Our physical biology . At its very root using these visionary plants
Shows us in no uncertain terms the actual interconnectedness of
Everything . This , above all seems to one of the consistent lessons .
I think humans now more than ever need to step up
And realize our symbiotic relationship with nature. Ironically
Many past seemingly uncivilized cultures already seemed to understand this .

Interestingly enough I always journey deeply
Embedded in nature . My recent experience was no acception .
I was deep in a forest on a thick bed of moss on
A high glacial rock outcropping miles from human
Interference .
This how I always do it

Will check your link thank you

 

[jamie]

"I think because of our symbiotic origins we are, in some sense, a plant/mammal hybrid."

We are actaully more like a fungal hybrid..we are much more similar to fungi than we are to plants..of course the plants come from the fungi etc..plants and animals both cannot exist without the fungi...

..and mushrooms are just another example of a non plant species that contain these powerful neuroactive chemicals that help us communicate with gaia.

I could actaully say that I have learned the most from psilocybin mushrooms..from the fungi.

 

[anrchy]

The fruit is desirable, it contains nutrients we need. We consume and therefore plant the seeds.

It would make sense that there would be some sort of symbiosis involved with consciousness altering chemicals as well. They provide for us this molecule that does something for us, and in turn some how does something for the plant. Nature just inherently works this way. Everything is connected and the circle of life extends to every species. So the question is, what are the plants receiving from out use of DMT as well as others.

 

[jamie]

"So the question is, what are the plants receiving from out use of DMT as well as others."

Preservation of the sacredness of the ecosystem. It's not about what they get..it's about what all of Gaia gets.

 

[Doodazzle]

I do think that one role that psychedelics play in the gaian system is sort of like interspecies pheremones.

That's what i've long thought....or even more like a gaian neurotransmitter that operates on the plant/animal/fungus level.

I think these plant and animal based neuroactive chemicals are like little communication crystals that put us into some deeper level of communication with the planetetay and cosmic ecosystem and that then has a role as mediator between humanity and the type of culture that results...

Yeah. Seems obvious, right?

 

[Felnik]

I tend to think there are more solid survival reasons at
Play in all this somehow . More than just allowing us
Entry to some gaia interweb construct .

Perhaps like weeds and trees pushing through pavement
They've pushed and spread they're way right into our minds .

Yes mushrooms are also part of this as long as we're talking
About it .

As far as present day human culture is concerned I think it has
Alot to be desired . I would consider it a bad and deeply flawed reflection .

 

[cyb]

Plants spring from Nature
Humans spring from Nature
A vast chemical soup
Endlessly involved in energy exchange
Sounds like Divine Providence

Maybe...

 

[Wax]

Very interesting indeed. Reminds me of the TED talk by Micheal Pollan, a Plants Eye View I think.

To me plants are like the masters of chemistry. Chemicals, thorns and fuzz are the only defenses they have. On the other hand, some plants want to be eaten for dissemination of seed, they produce juicy fruits and I wouldn't be surprised if we were attracted to most of them through pheromones. It makes sense that there is something big going on with plants that produce psychedelics, it is obviously not a defense mechanism when you could easily mow down a giant patch of mushrooms, a huge cluster of peyote...etc. before the effects set in.

What you do gain from eating psychedelic plants is respect and curiosity, beside the ego shattering meeting with God...So what happens when you have respect for a plant but also a major curiosity about it's effects? Seems to me you start planting it like mad and treating it like a baby.

I'm not saying that it is all a trick by the plants to get you to start massive ethno farms, because there is also the experience itself, which we all know is something else entirely. I think there is a mutual exchange going on, the plants are allowing us to tap into the gaian mind/ our own mind at a deeper level, and for me at least I started gaining respect for ALL plants following my first few experiences with mushrooms and salvia.

I think it also depends on the human, there are indeed some people that just don't get it and maybe it does act as a defense mechanism in those people that are too scared to even mess with the plant again. In others though, they feel something special and they follow it, they gain respect for life and the interconnectedness of it all, they plant gardens, they treat others as if they were themselves, they are more attune to the guidelines set by nature.

 

[Doodazzle]

To me plants are like the masters of chemistry. Chemicals, thorns and fuzz are the only defenses they have. On the other hand, some plants want to be eaten for dissemination of seed, they produce juicy fruits and I wouldn't be surprised if we were attracted to most of them through pheromones. It makes sense that there is something big going on with plants that produce psychedelics, it is obviously not a defense mechanism when you could easily mow down a giant patch of mushrooms, a huge cluster of peyote...etc. before the effects set in.

This brings me to another line of thought.

My woman was telling me about some guy who claimed he could diagnose whatever ails you, by checking out to see which "weeds" are growing on your property. Many of these weeds are also medicine. So if you have X weeds growing, perhaps nature sensed your affliction and sent you what you need.

The plant world sensed great pain in the animal kingdom--and then the plant world produced opium, THC, kratom, ect .

Extend this line of thought to entheogens....perhaps the plant world senses another type of need and gives us the tools that can help. Not at all saying these compouns exist soley for our benefit....but that production is perhaps attentuated and attuned with us somewhat, somehow.

Plants would also be doing similar for other animals....we are all in complex networks of symbioses.


I dunno.

 

[BecometheOther]

I have always strongly disagreed with the theory that psychoactive chemicals would be produced as some sort of defense mechanism, and simply that. My reasoning is that the experienced acheived through use of these plants is mystical, its informative, and generally way too complex to be the result of something like that.

I really resonate with the OPs idea and do believe it is a symbiotic relationship. Perhaps our bodies are the physical places where a plants spirit can manifest itself. I remember reading on ayahuasca forums that some believe the plants physical form is just a symbol or manifestation on this plane, where the plants spirit resides in another dimension. The fireworks display that happens as a result could be because conciousness is entering our bodies from another dimension..

Havent you ever felt like there was something else in your head when you use plant entheogens... something Other


One easy thing to note that plants get out of the relationship which is more concrete is that these special plants are selected protected and mass propogated by humans. Sure you might cut down a san pedro, but if she really gets to ya next thinng you know your sewing 1000s of seeds!

On a semi related note: A friend of mine and i use salvia together, and a reocruuring theme on his experiences nowdays is this: He meets the salvia princess (whom i have seen as well and had interactions with) and she asks him for help "building" like "they" are building some structure or who knows what they are trying to build he couldnt explain it to me, but says that every single time now she begs him to get his tools and help build.

A very interesting thread!

 

[Infectedstyle]

I'm curious, does your friend often use any other psychedelics besides salvia?