maranello551
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Mescaline: Acetate vs Citrate vs Hcl vs Sulfate
- Thread starter maranello551
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maranello551
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joebono wrote this on a different thread and I had some questions about it.
I've been experimenting with cactus for over a year and a half. I have had teas, resins, alcohol extractions, A/B extractions, and D-limo extractions. My trips have ranged from no effects to decent but mild effects. Even 1.7 grams of acetate left me wanting more, knowing that there was much more to the mescaline experience than that. All of my trips had been with San Pedro until last Saturday. I bought a bunch of bridgesii and made a tea out of 14 inches of it. This was the trip that I had been waiting for, I finally felt the power of mescaline. It was a full blown fifteen hour experience where the first seven hours I just kept getting higher and higher and it reached an almost DMT type intensity. The visuals were stunning, the headspace was cosmic, and the thoughts were surreal and abstract. If I were to rate the power of this experience with my previous strongest mescaline trip, I would say it was almost if I was on two different drugs. My experiences with San Pedro have largely been a waste of time when considering what happened to me on Saturday. Perhaps I need to really bite the bullet and eat 2.5-3.0 grams of Pedro acetate or three and a half feet of Pedro tea in order to see if it can bring me to the place bridgesii brought me. All I know is that I have a newfound respect for mescaline, a new love for bridgesii, and very mixed feelings about San Pedro.
In a few days, I plan on eating a large dose (2.7 grams) of my San Pedro mescaline acetate to see it can rival my 14" bridgesii tea trip. For some reason I doubt it be as good.
How in the name of all that makes sense did 14 inches of bridgesii get him farther than 1.7g of acetate???? Isn't there far less that 1.7g of mescaline in the bridgesii? I know there are additional alkaloids and maoi's in bridgesii, but is it strage for me to doubt that they would boost the experience to that great an extent that 14 inch bridgesii outpowers 1.7g acetate??
I hear that mescaline is dangerous at doses that high. Some say at 1g some say at 2. What's the deal? At what dose is purified Mescaline dangerous physically?
I've been experimenting with cactus for over a year and a half. I have had teas, resins, alcohol extractions, A/B extractions, and D-limo extractions. My trips have ranged from no effects to decent but mild effects. Even 1.7 grams of acetate left me wanting more, knowing that there was much more to the mescaline experience than that. All of my trips had been with San Pedro until last Saturday. I bought a bunch of bridgesii and made a tea out of 14 inches of it. This was the trip that I had been waiting for, I finally felt the power of mescaline. It was a full blown fifteen hour experience where the first seven hours I just kept getting higher and higher and it reached an almost DMT type intensity. The visuals were stunning, the headspace was cosmic, and the thoughts were surreal and abstract. If I were to rate the power of this experience with my previous strongest mescaline trip, I would say it was almost if I was on two different drugs. My experiences with San Pedro have largely been a waste of time when considering what happened to me on Saturday. Perhaps I need to really bite the bullet and eat 2.5-3.0 grams of Pedro acetate or three and a half feet of Pedro tea in order to see if it can bring me to the place bridgesii brought me. All I know is that I have a newfound respect for mescaline, a new love for bridgesii, and very mixed feelings about San Pedro.
In a few days, I plan on eating a large dose (2.7 grams) of my San Pedro mescaline acetate to see it can rival my 14" bridgesii tea trip. For some reason I doubt it be as good.
How in the name of all that makes sense did 14 inches of bridgesii get him farther than 1.7g of acetate???? Isn't there far less that 1.7g of mescaline in the bridgesii? I know there are additional alkaloids and maoi's in bridgesii, but is it strage for me to doubt that they would boost the experience to that great an extent that 14 inch bridgesii outpowers 1.7g acetate??
I hear that mescaline is dangerous at doses that high. Some say at 1g some say at 2. What's the deal? At what dose is purified Mescaline dangerous physically?
At what dose is purified Mescaline dangerous physically?
Can not answer this question but do know the 200mg dose they talk about as being a really nice one to start with has been extremely disappointing
with 3 different extractions. The only thing felt was some chills with an alcohol extract, other 2 were 69Ron Teks. All 3 were with Torch, hope to experiment with dried bridgesii soon.
Can not answer this question but do know the 200mg dose they talk about as being a really nice one to start with has been extremely disappointing
with 3 different extractions. The only thing felt was some chills with an alcohol extract, other 2 were 69Ron Teks. All 3 were with Torch, hope to experiment with dried bridgesii soon.
His acetate is almost certainly very impure. The additional alkaloids in bridgesii may well have played a part, but I would also say that, depending on the overall width of the bridgesii and the particular strain involved, it could have contained a gram of mescaline. There are, however, pedros which are just as strong as bridgesii - they're just harder to find than the common PC strain, which is why pedro has a rep for being weak.
Also, mescaline is not dangerous. You would have to try VERY hard and have a huge supply to OD. I mean eating tens of grams of the stuff. Ask Erowid : ID 1778 : Can mescaline kill?
USA4ME, I'd start closer to the 300-350 mark if you want a satisfying but totally manageable first trip. 200 is sub-psychedelic for many folks.
Also, mescaline is not dangerous. You would have to try VERY hard and have a huge supply to OD. I mean eating tens of grams of the stuff. Ask Erowid : ID 1778 : Can mescaline kill?
USA4ME, I'd start closer to the 300-350 mark if you want a satisfying but totally manageable first trip. 200 is sub-psychedelic for many folks.
That may be true, but it depends. Much of the cactus sold as peruvian torch is actually T. cuzcoensis, which has little or no mescaline content. True peruvianus also varies very considerably. There are certainly good peruvianus, and it's likely that if you get ahold of a real one, it'll be stronger than a PC pachanoi. But even the well-regarded outer skins from a supplier in Matucana generally clock in around 1-1.4%. To put that in perspective, it's higher than the .3-.5% commonly found in PC pach, but some true South American pachanois can hit 5% for the outer skin, and a number of bridgesii have been tested in home extractions at around 2% for the whole plant (so probably also in the 5% range for outer skin alone).
If you know nothing about cacti, you probably have the best chance of getting an active bridgesii. There are very weak ones, but they seem to be rarer.
If you know nothing about cacti, you probably have the best chance of getting an active bridgesii. There are very weak ones, but they seem to be rarer.
Also, with respect to the original question, I would rank it: sulfate > hcl > acetate. This ranking is purely on the basis of how easy it is to obtain very pure results. If you had pure versions of each already, it wouldn't make much difference, except that the hcl would be 11% more potent by weight than the sulfate (don't know about acetate's molecular weight and too lazy to check).
USA4ME, I'd start closer to the 300-350 mark if you want a satisfying but totally manageable first trip. 200 is sub-psychedelic for many folks.
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460mg was consumed by a friend and he felt nothing, it was torch chips from Peru where you would expect a good product, Ron69 Tek was used and final product cleaned up in DRY MEK.
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460mg was consumed by a friend and he felt nothing, it was torch chips from Peru where you would expect a good product, Ron69 Tek was used and final product cleaned up in DRY MEK.
I have read a number of accounts of people taking large amounts of acetate and getting little effect, which means the extraction is not working as it should. If you take 460mg of pure mescaline, I don't care who you are, you're going to feel it.
I suggest your friend look into DGs sulfate method if he wants to know what he's taking. He can still use limonene for the solvent if he wishes.
And yes, torch can vary widely, just like any other trichocereus. But the standard seems to be around 1% yield for commercially available chips.
I suggest your friend look into DGs sulfate method if he wants to know what he's taking. He can still use limonene for the solvent if he wishes.
And yes, torch can vary widely, just like any other trichocereus. But the standard seems to be around 1% yield for commercially available chips.
xram said:
The end product looked exactly like photos taken by others that had very good results. Not a tar like substance, you could see tiny clear crystals in it. When cleaned with dry MEK it did stay a light tan color. Is that DGs sulfate method on this site?
maranello551
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My dog drank a 3.5 foot 5-inch thick San Pedro tea and got the same intensity as 1-2 tabs of good lsd. He's guessing 300mg or so of mescaline? He's looking to get 900g of Torch power to extract. He doesn't like tar as it's far to messy to work with. He's looking for a much stronger experience. Perhaps 800-1500mg. Any recommendations? Should he go for HCL or sulfate or what? He doesn't have access to any crazy lab material. What kind of yield can he expect from 900g of powdered Torch?
No, it starts off using FOAF's tek up until the salting phase, which I think uses Toulene or Xylene as the solvent. There are many ways to go. The point is that once you have your freebase mescaline in solution, you salt it out with titrated dilute sulphuric acid, as DG explains. The acetone is necessary to eventually get the sulfate crystals to freeze-precipitate (the acetone mixes with the acidic water and keeps it from from turning into ice in the freezer).
Just read through a few teks and decide what works best for you up until that point (an STB with lye and limonene is about as simple as it gets and doesn't leave you with any nasty chems to dispose of).
Expect lower (probably significantly lower) yields of a much higher-quality product. Have a look through this thread to see what you can expect: Post Your Mescaline Extraction Results - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Just read through a few teks and decide what works best for you up until that point (an STB with lye and limonene is about as simple as it gets and doesn't leave you with any nasty chems to dispose of).
Expect lower (probably significantly lower) yields of a much higher-quality product. Have a look through this thread to see what you can expect: Post Your Mescaline Extraction Results - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
maranello551 said:
You almost certainly got the standard PC pachanoi, which is pretty weak. If you had taken 3.5 feet of a decent bridgesii (or a real pedro), you would probably have been on another planet for a couple of days.
If you get 900g of torch powder (though I'd go for chips instead if possible, easier to know that you're just getting the outer layer) and it's of standard potency (~1% dry weight), you'd potentially have 9 grams of mescaline in there. You could run an extraction on 200g to start see what you get.
A standard STB / AB doesn't require any fancy supplies. You need a vessel that won't be cracked by a strong base (any HDPE2 jug will do the trick), a glass turkey baster if you don't have a separatory funnel, some jars and coffee filters. Oh, and gloves and eye protection whenever you're working with the based material. That's pretty much it.
xram said:
Thanks, my friend wants to do a comparison with the next batch of dried chips using both 69Ron tek including using the MEK cleanup and the DUAL SOLOVENT CRYSTALIZATION AND SIMPLE TITRATION BY DG.
Unfortunately the later does NOT go into a lot of precise detail as other teks do. He is trying to figure it out and will have several questions. First one is what does the NP stand for?
