Messianic Complex

[Guyomech]

So as we in the psychedelic community are well aware, there are those among us who, as a result of exploring psychedelics, feel that they have developed a relationship with the Divine, often a very personal one. I think this is a pretty natural thing to arrive at once a number of "godhead" experiences have been attained. With some folks, this leads to a greater sense of peace and purpose and interconnectivity, while others might get a sense of somehow being God's messenger, along with the need to carry around signs, etc... All the way up to a potential full messianic complex.

Let me share my own story on this topic. My most intensive exploration happened decades ago, in my twenties. I believe that the most awe inspiring experiences can happen early in a person's entheogenic explorations, before they have fully grasped and integrated their new understanding of a place in the larger scheme, and I think that this critical juncture is a place where it might be easy to get a little unhinged. In my own case, this was exacerbated by the fact that I had a group of people around me who looked up to me in some ways and put me on sort of a pedestal- I was getting a lot of media attention etc, so my ego was having a feast, while at the same time I was taking "heroic" doses of entheogens, giving me a sense that I had control over my ego. Among all this, I started to get unhealthy ideas about my importance in the larger scheme.

This culminated one night while on 1000ug of LSD. This inner conflict percolated to the surface and overwhelmed the experience. At one point I wrote myself a note (I do this a lot while tripping, often at critical moments) that said: "an actual physical MIRACLE is needed for (insert guyomech's full name here) to know that he is God". I then spent a good long time trying to move a coaster around on the table with thoughts alone. Didn't happen, of course.

After that, I worked hard at reframing my worldview into one where I'm just a primate who is blessed with a level of understanding that gives my life a high level of magic and meaning. Much more comfortable to have this humbler worldview.

Has anyone else here ever had this kind of experience? Where did it come from, and where did it ultimately take you?

 

[olympus mon]

I've had these types of experience and would bet they are quite common. The big question is what a person does with them after it happens ? I've been told things like I was the chosen one, the entities were waiting for me, the entities feel I was special to the worlds survival yada yada.

Its a real head trip to say the least but after integration it was obvious it as just the hallucinogens effect on my ego. My ego was tripping balls and this was the outcome.

God complex trips happen but its damn important to look at them rationally without emotional attachment to the message. I do this for any and all information.
Im not a blind faith kinda tripper that believes everything he sees or is told. Fliters are pretty damn important.

 

[fractalic]

Guyomech, olympus mon, thank you for sharing your story with such honesty

i got some of these Messiah ideas too, making me believe that i am the one who must be doing something to change the world....haven't found any good ideas how to do it yet, though....

its funny how the kind of things that are supposed to make your ego fall apart,sometimes do the exact opposite, and blow our ego completely out of proportions....

 

[rjb]

I believe that the most awe inspiring experiences can happen early in a person's entheogenic explorations, before they have fully grasped and integrated their new understanding of a place in the larger scheme, and I think that this critical juncture is a place where it might be easy to get a little unhinged.

Fliters are pretty damn important.

^ this

 

[daedaloops]

This is the kind of stuff that's rather embarrassing to talk about, and I'd be willing to bet that more psychonauts than meets the eye have been faced with this problem at one time or another.. They would just rather not admit it, as it makes them seem kinda egoistical, which is the opposite of what psychedelics should teach you I guess. And I'd rather not admit it either, but I just realized it's way more egoistical to try to hide it and maintain a certain coolness about your ego, than to just speak your mind and let it all out, no matter how embarrassing it is. So thanks for this thread.

There's no problem to think you're god if you think that everyone else is god too, every animal, every rock, every particle is god. But when you start to think that you're somehow a more special god than everyone else, then the problem arises. I've had visions on aya where I was being told that I should stop everything I'm doing with my projects, because otherwise I would somehow help the acceleration of the time fractal, which would culminate in the awkward realization that I'm just some lonely god who created this universe in his mind so that he wouldn't feel so lonely. And I was being shown the whole ugliness of this future, and it would be all because of me, some illusionary organism on a planet. It's really hard NOT to believe these visions, because they're being shown in a place/dimension way more real than this one, with ineffable beauty and meaning and magic.

But if you just try to keep rational about it, and try to reason to yourself that you're just taking a drug and this drug is making all these mental connections about all the information that you previously had in your brain, so obviously these kind of egoistical conclusions can be in there too. And I think that's the whole lesson that they're trying to teach you, by making you more egoistical at first, because it forces you to face it and think about it. So I guess psychedelics can work in a reverse-psychological way..

The fact remains that altho it seems like all the people around me are real, there's no way any of them can prove it to me, so the more you think about these things, the more they seem to always reach the conclusion of solipsism. But so what? Whether you're a real organism on a planet, or just some schizophrenic god, does it really matter? You still have this time of "now", and you can do whatever you want and love to do in that "now". And the "now" will never end, cos you'll always be in it. So just I dunno.. no matter what kind of crazy ideas psychedelics give you, you should use them as a way to realize that you can still enjoy this life, just take it with some humor and keep doing the things you love. It's rather simple really.

 

[Guyomech]

Daeda, thank you for the simple and wise words.

Indeed, it took me some courage to hit that "post" button. But I realize by now that I'm not all that special, so if I've gone through this process, others must have too.

Fractalic: as long as we keep our personal illusions of supreme specialness in check, it's actually great to have some sense of mission to improve the world.

 

[polytrip]

There's no problem to think you're god if you think that everyone else is god too

This is absolutely true. The thing is: this life, this world we live in actually becomes nicer, more enjoyable when you no longer feel that you´re the only divine person in it.

I must admit that it is hard to hold on to that view sometimes. But not only does life become a lot more bearable when you realise that basically every person is good natured (and that it just doesn´t always shows). This view is also much closer to the truth: there is no-one who wakes up every morning, saying to himself:'Ha!!, today i´m gonna be a major asshole!!!'. Some people do act like asshole´s, but that´s more because of weakness than because of a choice to actually be that way. Well...Some people ofcourse do wake up like that. But those people should be considered patients, rather than evil beings.

The vast majority of all the people are absolutely good, gentle, trustworthy, nice beings. Maybe sometimes a little boring to hang around with, but that´s just a matching-personality´s thing.

 

[Strangeling]

I've had this trip too! But I guess that's why people are starting to call these substances entheogens right? It messed with me for the longest time. The only problem is that now every time I do Ayahuasca or high doses of Shrooms/Acid, I either get an audience with the divine or become the divine. So needless to that I've seriously cut down my usage and began to treat these substances with the utmost respect and reverence (even fear at times).

On one of my more intense Aya journeys I became one with everything and realized how much collective suffering there was, it was unbearable! Then my visions kinda zoomed in to an area that looked like an auric oil slick and I was like "WTF? that part looks disgusting", then I figured out it was my tainted contribution to the dark well when I am not in the "one" state. So now I try to be mindful of my actions and whether or not what I say or do might hurt somebody else, I even stopped eating meat.

As for Messianic Complex I still to this day feel like those blessed with an entheogenic experience have a responsibility to help others find the divine spark within themselves. Not to put ourselves above others, but rather below, like the older brother giving the younger brother a boost so he can get to the (spiritual)cookie jar and we can all have cookies:grin: .

 

[entheogenadvocate]

I've had these types of experience and would bet they are quite common. The big question is what a person does with them after it happens ? I've been told things like I was the chosen one, the entities were waiting for me, the entities feel I was special to the worlds survival yada yada.

Its a real head fuck to say the least but after integration it was obvious it as just the hallucinogens effect on my ego. My ego was tripping balls and this was the outcome.

God complex trips happen but its damn important to look at them rationally without emotional attachment to the message. I do this for any and all information.
Im not a blind faith kinda tripper that believes everything he sees or is told. Fliters are pretty damn important.

^^^ Exactly what I came in here to say That is why I use a pre-journey mantra of "love, HUMILITY, and the pursuit of knowledge. I find it helps me no matter what I face.

Peace and Happy Journeys

 

[Eliyahu]

This messianic complex you speak of Guyomech...it


It........seems so famliliar somehow.....

:lol:

 

[Mr.Peabody]

I felt as though I was on this path for a time. I have consulted my mushroom friends for a few years now, and changa for about a year. One thing I have learned is that they test me in a variety of ways. After the initial few frolicky trips, they tested me with fear (as did the DMT once). They have tested me with an inflated ego, as well. IME the shrooms are masters of changing size perception, and that goes for the ego as well. I wonder sometimes if the beauty of the visuals are merely some type of distraction. If they are, they probably get me every time.

To be honest I had this idea cooked up for a while that I had some unique purpose (this was when I was a teenager, mind you). The events of my life were the evidence that I was special. The near death experiences, the way things panned out, it all seemed to me that I was being protected. That was, until I realized that my purpose may be as unnoticeable as saying hey to someone, being at a certain place and a certain time, or something like that. I realized I may just have been needed to help in a chain of events. That meant I would never notice it when it happened, and at any moment I could become "mortal" once more.

So I guess I realized it was pointless, although I didn't immediately give up the idea that I was special.

I don't know if such things as the god-head, divine beings and the like are outside of me, or just in my head. I think either way, if I deny myself the allure of the ego, I'll be granted access into places of deeper understanding, whether they are, again, outside of me or a part of me.

 

[Guyomech]

Thank you everyone for your honest and thought provoking answers! If anything, I think the moral of the story is that we can find a sense of purpose or mission while visiting deep psychedelic spaces... But we always have to keep the bigger picture in mind, that each and every one of us potentially has a special purpose in the world.

Eliyahu, I'd love to hear more from you about this subject, as you have talked a great deal about spirituality and purpose.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

... But we always have to keep the bigger picture in mind, that each and every one of us potentially has a special purpose in the world.

I hope I didn't come off as saying this is not true. It is most certainly true that everyone has a purpose. To me it seems important to proceed with a sense of humility and humbleness, and avoid delusions of grandeur how ever tempting they may be.

 

[Eliyahu]

Thank you everyone for your honest and thought provoking answers! If anything, I think the moral of the story is that we can find a sense of purpose or mission while visiting deep psychedelic spaces... But we always have to keep the bigger picture in mind, that each and every one of us potentially has a special purpose in the world.

Eliyahu, I'd love to hear more from you about this subject, as you have talked a great deal about spirituality and purpose.

Sorry Guyo,

Snozz does not want me talking about my spiritualty any more... so I won't

 

[olympus mon]

Thank you everyone for your honest and thought provoking answers! If anything, I think the moral of the story is that we can find a sense of purpose or mission while visiting deep psychedelic spaces... But we always have to keep the bigger picture in mind, that each and every one of us potentially has a special purpose in the world.

Eliyahu, I'd love to hear more from you about this subject, as you have talked a great deal about spirituality and purpose.

Sorry Guyo,

Snozz does not want me talking about my spirituality any more... so I won't

I think you missed his point Eliyahu. How about just not speaking as if its absolutes but more your opinion. Ive asked you once to maybe use some imo's in your wording. Your spirituality is fine to discuss but you tend to speak from the position of certainty which we discourage here. Thats all.

This thread is a good example of why people need to adopt a healthy amount of skepticism. After reading your own account in the thread about how you got your name and reading mine and many others of similar experiences its easy to see you are far from the only person to have been told this kind of thing. Which to me shows the perfect reason to question experiences like this....no?

Id love to hear your thoughts. Thanks

 

[Eliyahu]

Oh I got his point... His point was that my Dogma is so much more severe than everyone elses..
am so much more preachy than everyone else...

It's ok for someone to have a Dogma that says YHWH is Lucifer but if I try and debate that then I become the bad guy.


ALSO--- I have used IMO more often than the word "and" but that doesn't matter what it comes down to is....any talk of YHWH or the bible just pisses some people off no matter how much you say IMO or I believe or w/e.

Elijah shrugs and walks away-

 

[cyb]

ALSO--- I have used IMO more often than the word "and" but that doesn't matter what it comes down to is....any talk of YHWH or the bible just pisses some people off no matter how much you say IMO or I believe or w/e.

Gotta back Eliyahu up on this one...He's all about the IMO's recently...
Dogma or not...it's certainly very interesting and entertaining....'Share, Expand'...

 

[olympus mon]

Oh I got his point... His point was that my Dogma is so much more severe than everyone elses..
am so much more preachy than everyone else...

It's ok for someone to have a Dogma that says YHWH is Lucifer but if I try and debate that then I become the bad guy.


ALSO--- I have used IMO more often than the word "and" but that doesn't matter what it comes down to is....any talk of YHWH or the bible just pisses some people off no matter how much you say IMO or I believe or w/e.

Elijah shrugs and walks away-

I dont agree with this at all. Whats wrong with saying "Ive had a meeting with a being that revealed itself as Satan" rather than Ive meet satan and hes a blah blah blah. Thats all Snozz was pointing out as well as what Im hoping you can see.

Your a smart fella Eliyahu you must be able to see that phrasing things the way you sometimes makes many people uncomfortable. Thats why its not what your saying but how its phrased that Snozz made his points to you.

I understand why your defensive but feel you do not need to be. Your a good contributor here and I dont have any problems with you personally but I question things like the above phrasing massively. Its just not in good form IMO.

And .. using IMO does make a big difference. Delivery matters brother man. It really does.

ALSO--- I have used IMO more often than the word "and" but that doesn't matter what it comes down to is....any talk of YHWH or the bible just pisses some people off no matter how much you say IMO or I believe or w/e.

Gotta back Eliyahu up on this one...He's all about the IMO's recently...
Dogma or not...it's certainly very interesting and entertaining....'Share, Expand'...

Ok my bad fair enough. Ill take better notice of this next time before I speak. Thanks

 

[Eliyahu]

Well, the folks I was debating with in that thread did not use IMO or anything like that as far as I can see..

For example:
Blue lunar night said..

The difference, Eliyahu, is that you have swallowed their salvationist con-game hook line and sinker, while I see them as sinister, prestidigatory tricksters purveying a "pure senselessness" (Second Treatise of the Great Seth)

It's a clear cut case of me being singled out and picked on for my beliefs IMO

 

[a1pha]

It's a clear cut case of me being singled out and picked on for my beliefs IMO

This isn't grade-school ... no one is picking on you for your beliefs. However, there are some serious concerns regarding your claims of being the chosen one who speaks to Yahweh and satan. It would benefit you to recognize your world-view is not absolute.