Messianic Complex

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu wrote:
It's a clear cut case of me being singled out and picked on for my beliefs IMO

A1pha wrote
This isn't grade-school ... no one is picking on you for your beliefs. However, there are some serious concerns regarding your claims of being the chosen one who speaks to Yahweh and satan. It would benefit you to recognize your world-view is not absolute.

But it's ok for others to make absolute statements regaurding my beliefs?

Also I never said I was the chosen one...

I said I had a DMT trip where entities called me Elijah...

I never said I am absolutely Elijah I also asked that no one take it seriously.

 

[jamie]

To be fair, I have never heard eliyahu claim he was the chosen one or any kind of messiah. Those words have been the words of other people. He has stated he believes he is the reincarnation of Elijah. That does not necesarily translate to "he thinks he is the messiah or chosen one".

 

[Eliyahu]

Jamie...

You are indeed fair and you are also truly wise

IMO... You are fully deserving of the title "impartial moderator"

 

[Guyomech]

Eliyahu- I can perfectly understand why you might be feeling a little steamed right now. But believe it or not you aren't being persecuted for your beliefs, seriously.

It's about delivery, really. I'd urge you to review some of your more fervent posts and maybe you can at least get an inkling of where these objections might come from.

There's no need to take a black/white position on this. There most certainly is room for a great deal of spiritual discussion at these forums, as it is a topic that comes part and parcel with the psychedelic experience.

As much as I've enjoyed a lot of your posts, there also have been a few that have given me a bit of a "Whoa!" kind of response. Again, it's the wording. Although the Nexus hosts members of all different belief systems, the overall tone of the conversation here is has a healthy blend of skepticism, openness, careful consideration. All opinions are welcome, provided they are presented as such.

Really, a good goal for anyone posting here would be to word things in a way that makes them ironclad, where even if a reader disagrees, all they can really say is, "that's not how I see it". Good wording empowers you to bring a minority opinion into a discussion.

On another note... I'm still hoping to see a response to this thread, because I find your spiritual views to be interesting.

 

[Tokapelli]

ya know i think were all talkin about the same exact stuff here, just giving it different labels. We gotta figure out a better way to communicate these words are so outdated! lol.

This Messiah type of thing is very interesting, reminds me of Tools Lost Keys and Rosetta Stoned "Me, the chosen one, and I never even graduated out of fucking high school" or something like that lol(followed by a crazy sick base line of course lol).
Its crazy that somethign can be so humbling, then turn around and inflate your ego more than it ever has been before.
I kinda look at this as the teacher showing us one side of the paradox at a time. We are all "the chosen one". Kinda how this lakota elder Black Elk said that the top of harney peak is the center of the universe, but there are many centers of the universe.

It doesnt make any sense, and thats when I just sit back and smile, remind myslef that life is a paradox. So if it doenst make any sense I must be on to something! lol

 

[VIII]

I also experienced this beginning early on in my DMT experiences and although the meaning for me has been transformed it is something I still experience. For me, I feel it is the product of something many here have already touched on.

You, me, them, we, everyone (and maybe everything) is a chosen one. Chosen to be granted the gift of consciousness and awareness and explore the wonders that lie within its infinite beauty and horror. We all have a source from which to DO anything.

I feel that it is this common aspect that inspires us to help eachother and share what our awareness has allowed us to see. I also believe it is the common use of "chosen one" implying a singular entity that is perhaps inflating our egos when confronted with this concept on such a personal level. At least that is the sum of my experiences and interpretations thus far.

I havent done any reading on the Messianic Complex however so Ill try to educate myself and follow up on this.

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu- I can perfectly understand why you might be feeling a little steamed right now. But believe it or not you aren't being persecuted for your beliefs, seriously.

It's about delivery, really. I'd urge you to review some of your more fervent posts and maybe you can at least get an inkling of where these objections might come from.

There's no need to take a black/white position on this. There most certainly is room for a great deal of spiritual discussion at these forums, as it is a topic that comes part and parcel with the psychedelic experience.

As much as I've enjoyed a lot of your posts, there also have been a few that have given me a bit of a "Whoa!" kind of response. Again, it's the wording. Although the Nexus hosts members of all different belief systems, the overall tone of the conversation here is has a healthy blend of skepticism, openness, careful consideration. All opinions are welcome, provided they are presented as such.

Really, a good goal for anyone posting here would be to word things in a way that makes them ironclad, where even if a reader disagrees, all they can really say is, "that's not how I see it". Good wording empowers you to bring a minority opinion into a discussion.

On another note... I'm still hoping to see a response to this thread, because I find your spiritual views to be interesting.

Guyo....

Man I really feel like an ass for derailing your thread here.

I'm just gonna have to take some time off the Nexus here for a while becaue I'm really hurt.

I'ts very very clear to me that the other people I was debating with in that thread did not really follow ANY of the guidlines you speak of... One of them basically even called me a sucker as I posted earlier in this thread.
============================================================
So here is my last contribution for a while because I really think your an awesome person Guyomech and I just can't leave this lovely thread hangin'

This is how I see it...

The spirit world is always Hiring/recruiting new members/workers/soldiers etc.

This is why so many people get the "you are the chosen one message" IMO they are just trying to recuit a person in this way to serve the interests of the spirit world...

In other words they are looking to fill certain Archetypes..

The DMT entities told me(obviously don't take this seriously, I'm probably insane or w/e)

That I am one of many other several possible "Elijah" prototypes that were born around the same time as me. According to "the voices" I hear...I just happen to be the last prototype standing so therefore I got the job.

IMO the spirit world has a very hard time finding people who will take them seriously, also when someone is "chosen" the dark forces try to rise up against and crush that person..

So even though many people are potentially "chosen" ones very few actually make the cut.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Also about reincarnation.... I actually owe thanks to Nexus membber lyserg for pointing out this particular theory to me.

IMO reincarnation can be metaphorically related to computers for example.......
You soul would be like the hard drive.....If that hard drive is operating at an optimal level
then "software" can be introduced to the hardware.

So my regular soul would be like the hardware and the "super soul" of Elijah would be like a software program that is compatible with my particular hard-drive configuration...

--------------------------------------

Spaced Cadet Elijah-

Over and out.

 

[Julz]

...If anything, I think the moral of the story is that we can find a sense of purpose or mission while visiting deep psychedelic spaces... But we always have to keep the bigger picture in mind, that each and every one of us potentially has a special purpose in the world.

That makes good sense to me, Guyomech.

Long ago and far away, I felt that I was given a gift from a higher source. It was a simple communication, "you are special" "we have been waiting for you." It meant to me that I was special enough to appreciate myself, to care for myself, to not listen to those who might berate or use me, that I had value as a spiritual being. It never meant that I was more special than anyone else, or that there was a hierarchy of specialness... only that I was part of something more, a sense of belonging.

I have tried to keep this in mind throughout my life. Sometimes I remember, sometimes I forget. But I try to be patient and as someone else in the thread said, essentially, it may be the small things that we do that make us special, like saying "Hi" to someone, or just recognizing another person for being special too.

I think we're special that we are willing and able to look outside of this physical realm, through use of plants, substances, meditation; to look beyond, to seek more knowledge, to gain understanding and to reconnect with other energies.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

I really like your post, Julz.It was very well put. I think I needed to read that today.

 

[Guyomech]

Eliyahu, thanks for the thought provoking post. This thread wouldn't be complete without your input.

What you say about archetypes resonates strongly with me. Back when I was going through the transformation mentioned in the OP, this was something I really struggled to find peace with. I'd been getting this very strong message that I had a role to play in the world, and would be transformative on a global scale. That this role could only be performed by an extremely specific archetype of individual, and that the world contained vanishingly few of this type, and even fewer whom were willing to take on this role. In fact, i may even be the only one.

Now, why should a twenty-something tattoo artist be thinking these things?

I think part of it is the sense of "higher understanding" that psychedelic use can bring about. Along with this sense can come a certain mojo, a thing that other people may be impressed by, which can reinforce any possible delusions of grandeur. A person in this state may actually make statements to themselves along the lines of, "I've got the tiniest ego of anyone I know." - and not even grasp the contradiction.

In my case, it was a combination of things that put this all in check, a number of very humbling events in both hyperspace and here on Earth. Two decades of integration, along with a marked lack of world-changing activity on my part. And it's all good, too. Chasing a dream like that would be all-encompassing, fatiguing. I'm much happier being a humble art guy in the woods with his family, some very fine weed, and a couple- three hyperspace visits a year. I'm sure I still have a major role in the world, but many of us do- anyone who chooses to follow where their heart tells them to go, without reservation, and put their all into being that person... These are the individuals who make the world.

 

[dreamer042]

Whenever I think of reincarnation I think of this quote from waking life :lol:

Everybody always says that they've been the reincarnation of Cleopatra or Alexander the Great. I always want to tell them they were probably some dumb fuck like everybody else. I mean, it's impossible. Think about it. The world population has doubled in the past 40 years, right? So if you really believe in that ego thing of one eternal soul, then you have only 50% chance of your soul being over 40. And for it to be over 150 years old, then it's only one out of six.

 

[Crazyhorse]

Whenever I think of reincarnation I think of this quote from waking life :lol:

Everybody always says that they've been the reincarnation of Cleopatra or Alexander the Great. I always want to tell them they were probably some dumb fuck like everybody else. I mean, it's impossible. Think about it. The world population has doubled in the past 40 years, right? So if you really believe in that ego thing of one eternal soul, then you have only 50% chance of your soul being over 40. And for it to be over 150 years old, then it's only one out of six.

That part always annoyed me actually. Strikes me as so narrow minded and egotistical to assume that only humans are involved in the reincarnation process, or even that this is the only world to incarnate into.

 

[dreamer042]

Whenever I think of reincarnation I think of this quote from waking life :lol:

Everybody always says that they've been the reincarnation of Cleopatra or Alexander the Great. I always want to tell them they were probably some dumb fuck like everybody else. I mean, it's impossible. Think about it. The world population has doubled in the past 40 years, right? So if you really believe in that ego thing of one eternal soul, then you have only 50% chance of your soul being over 40. And for it to be over 150 years old, then it's only one out of six.

That part always annoyed me actually. Strikes me as so narrow minded and egotistical to assume that only humans are involved in the reincarnation process, or even that this is the only world to incarnate into.

Attempt to bring humor to this thread = fail

FWIW, personally I believe in this model:

http://www.buddhanet.net/wheel2.htm

 

[Crazyhorse]

Attempt to bring humor to this thread = fail

FWIW, personally I believe in this model:
Interactive Tour of the Buddhist Wheel of Life (flash movie)

Sorry, I'm just sayin'....

 

[Tokapelli]

Guyomech said "I'm much happier being a humble art guy in the woods with his family, some very fine weed, and a couple- three hyperspace visits a year."

Im with you there man! And you know that may just be exactly what you need to do to save the world. Its like 2 ppl have said now, the most significant thing we ever do might just be saying "hi" to somebody. Its impossible to know the how far the ripples go.

And that movie Waking Life is pretty awesome, although I agree that part is kind of annoying. I really dont think its linear like that at all. Kinda getting off subject here but recently I have started looking at other things in nature for clues as to how reincarnation works. The dividing of cells for instance in a developing fetus, maybe reincarnation is something like that. Maybe one soul can inhabit 2 bodies or even more. Maybe souls can divide and split in a fractal way just like cells in the body?

Anyway, thank for starting this conversation guyomech. This kind of conversation is why i love the nexus.

 

[Crazyhorse]

I really dont think its linear like that at all. Kinda getting off subject here but recently I have started looking at other things in nature for clues as to how reincarnation works. The dividing of cells for instance in a developing fetus, maybe reincarnation is something like that. Maybe one soul can inhabit 2 bodies or even more. Maybe souls can divide and split in a fractal way just like cells in the body?

Personally I think you're right on track here, I tend to think of it as a fractal pattern too. But I avoid the idea of the "soul", for me I'ts a fractal pattern in consciousness itself. IMO most of what people seem to think of as their "soul" is actually just part of their ego.

The Buddhists seem to support the idea that reincarnation is a much less liner process than the Hindus would have it. Check out the movie "Little Buddha" if you've never seen it, it's an interesting flick and touches on this idea. Plus seeing Ted (Keanu) playing Buddha is kind of amusing.

"Duuuude, *I'm* the Enlightened One?! Noooo Whhaaaay!"

 

[VIII]

Not sure how many people here have read it, but I found a chapter from The Ecstatic Adventure, by Ralph Metzner, that relates to the Messianic Complex and psychedelics.

I really enjoyed reading it so thought I would leave it here. I think I might give the whole book a read through, but it is from 1968 so I'll have to check for out-dated information.

The Ecstatic Adventure
Reports of Chemical Explorations of the Inner World
Chapter 4 — Psychiatry vs. God
by JOSEPH HAVENS

[ Full Book ]

 

[Doodazzle]

For me, the messianic thing was blown up hugely by dissasociatives.

Classic tryptamines have had similar effect as well, exaggerating my sense of importance in the cosmos vastly. It all rests on my shoulders! I must save the world!!! I can laugh about it now...heck, I've laughed at myself even when in the grips of such delusional thinking. I can experience the messiah thing and the paranoia thing with a level of semi-detatchment... perhaps because I've gone through it so many times!


And I also like what Eliyahu was saying, about the spirit world seeking out workers:

This is how I see it...

The spirit world is always Hiring/recruiting new members/workers/soldiers etc.

This is why so many people get the "you are the chosen one message" IMO they are just trying to recuit a person in this way to serve the interests of the spirit world...

In other words they are looking to fill certain Archetypes..

I like this. Everyone who had the "chosen one" trip was actually right. But there's a lot of chosen ones! You were actuially "a" chosen one not "the" chosen one. Maybe.

 

[Eliyahu]

I'm sorry I was being such a.... for lack of a better word..."ass" yesterday, I will honestly admit that I ran out of weed and was seeing the world through poop colored glasses. Now looking back I feel like a fool.

I apologize to everyone very much and I do love this community so.


Now back to the thread - sorry for the interruption
E

 

[Michal_R]

Thanks for your post, Eliyahu, and welcome back
...and...

Now back to the thread

Concerning the "messianic complex" that users of psychedelics tend to be prone to... I had an interesting insight/revelation during my last pharmahuasca journey.

I would paraphrase it something like this: before saving the world, you should save yourself first, you fool!